Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

I find it hard to believe that you think Israel has the same moral development as a society as Sweden or Belgium.

Part of Israelis of course the same.

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Especially when Israel has such a mastery of propaganda

Ironically 75% of the mainstream media here is in the Liberal side and talks on the hostages more than the war itself, on the need to think strategically and to make alliances in the middle east and to keep the bi partisan connections with US. 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

keep the bi partisan connections with US

Don't worry, you got both parties in your pocket

[Nivsch]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't worry, you got both parties in your pocket

Nice to know the Democrats didn't lose the trust despite Netanyahu. I am sure Lapid or Gantz's governments would have chemistry with the Democrats and Europeen leaders without any problems. Lapid and Macron are some sort of friends even.

Edited October 6 by Nivsch

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

Nice to know the Democrats didn't lose the trust despite Netanyahu. I am sure Lapid or Gantz's governments would have chemistry with the Democrats and Europeen leaders without any problems. Lapid and Macron are some sort of friends even.

Even if Harris become president and the Democrats win back the House and keep the Senate, the Democrats will still continue to arm and fund Israel to the hilt.

[Hsinav]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

How Israel uses rape was a weapon of war:

 

There is truth in this of course but overall a propaganda video that demonize jewish people with words like "rape capital" etc. This is very common in the pro-palestinian community and def a problem. I doubt that "ordinary Jewish people were T-shirts that encourage shooting pregnant Palestinian Women"

A small group in the military wore this T-shirt (I believe 2009) The army said it would not tolerate the T-shirts and would take disciplinary action against the soldiers involved. 

[Nivsch]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

How Israel uses rape was a weapon of war:

 

Where does this guy live?

Lets assume randonally (since I don't know at this moment) France?

Ok, then French people do terrible things like rape.

How do I know that?

Because statistically every day there must be at least one case of rape there.

Thats it. I made the case.

When use this kind of tactics, I can claim infinitely, to the negative or positive direction, about any country or group of people just however I want and it will be true.

After that, those people like this guy will not have to be surprised when Israelis in the media (AKA propaganda) will say only the good things about Israel, because this is the only way they feel they can take action to balance the situation and achieve a fair outcome.

It happens in the media as well as here.

Edited October 6 by Nivsch

[PurpleTree]

 

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Hsinav said:

There is truth in this of course but overall a propaganda video that demonize jewish people with words like "rape capital" etc. This is very common in the pro-palestinian community and def a problem. I doubt that "ordinary Jewish people were T-shirts that encourage shooting pregnant Palestinian Women"

Whatever satisfies those youtubers Green dopamine.

Edited October 6 by Nivsch

[PurpleTree]

19 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Whatever satisfies those youtubers Green dopamine.

Do you care about the Ukraine/Russia conflict for example?

I see many of you guys only posting in this thread  going back and forth defending a position all day everyday.

[Nivsch]

26 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Do you care about the Ukraine/Russia conflict for example?

I see many of you guys only posting in this thread  going back and forth defending a position all day everyday.

I am willing to take the issue fluidly and even go half way to the other side and try always to improve the quality of my messages.

However I see my function in this thread to provide insights from Israel's complex brain (this is what the twitts are for, for example) rather than any other source that only can provide actions the body decided on eventually.

I admit I am not familiar enough though with the Russia-Ukraine conflict.

Edited October 6 by Nivsch

[Hsinav]

28 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Whatever satisfies those youtubers Green dopamine.

An increasing trend I see all around me is that intelligent and liberal people generalizes and demonizes Jews almost like the ultra far right do with the Palestines. It is obvious that this is a response to the massacres and many deaths in Gaza. 

 

[PurpleTree]

17 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I am willing to take the issue fluidly and even go half way to the other side and try to make the quality to progress.

However I see my function in this thread to provide insights from Israel's complex brain (this is what the twitts are for, for example) rather than any other source that only can provide actions the body decided on eventually.

Alright. Would you say what you‘re doing.

Posting here everyday defending a position. Is it free will or automatic?

[Nivsch]

52 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Alright. Would you say what you‘re doing.

What do you mean?

52 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Posting here everyday defending a position. Is it free will or automatic?

Feel its a mix depends on how triggered one is.

But who isn't in defense? The question is only on what and how elevated is the value one defends.

No interest at all to defend everything Israel does, but far from it. I am not identified with the right wing in general.

If its ok to ask you what your main motivation here is?

Edited October 6 by Nivsch

[PurpleTree]

5 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

If its ok to ask you what your main motivation here is?

Sure, i think it’s probably automatic.

Or at least more automatic than semi automatic.

Automaton. So there’s seemingly no real motivation. Just going through the motions of a muppet. Sometimes seemingly feeling being triggered here and there and „reacting". Or seemingly enjoying questioning the motivations of "others"

 

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Sure, i think it’s probably automatic.

Or at least more automatic than semi automatic.

Automaton. So there’s seemingly no real motivation. Just going through the motions of a muppet. Sometimes seemingly feeling being triggered here and there and „reacting". Or seemingly enjoying questioning the motivations of "others"

 

But ultimately I don’t know.

[Dabidoe]

This conversation is a dumpster fire. It's not a valid argument that 6 pieces of garbage on video makes the entire army rapists. There will always be a % of rapists in the military when engaging in these kinds of conflict - you see it Ukraine, Iraq, Afghanistan let's not pretend it's unique to Israel to be brutally disgusting in their overreach of power.

In Afghanistan people who we considered our allies had a "custom" of raping young boys, did anyone light their hair on fire about that? US Army generally has a policy of turning a blind eye to all sorts of injustice carried out by our allies. For the majority of American History nobody gives a shit about poor brown people getting harassed, murdered, raped 99% of the time until it's conveniently in the zeitgeist for political reasons majority of the time.

People can cry foul all they want about brutality, violence, rape - both sides obviously dehumanize their opponents and don't give a shit. We're disgusted but most of us couldn't even imagine the idea of existential threat to our nation/peoples existence. Without justifying it it's just an unfortunate aspect of human nature that where dehumanization and warlords reign there will always be injustice, power imbalance, violence, rape, murder as long as ignorant warlords are in power.

Westerners can feign outrage at brutality when no westerner can relate to the lived experience of meaningful threats to existence and fearing for our ethnic group/country's literal survival. It's cheap to criticize Israel as a nation that should "know better" and be held to higher standards of being "Western, powerful." Israelis may be western, modern but they live in the same cage match as the rest of the middle east.

The whole Israeli Palestinian conflict comes to a dead hault because of dogmatic religious ideologues who refuse to see their "opponents" as human and therefore any hope of "reconciliation" is a pipe dream. You can't make friends with someone who wants you dead, and you can't make peace with innocent people if you dehumanize them. 

Edited October 6 by Dabidoe

[Leo Gura]

When you come in here acting defensive, it's clear there is no interest in you for understanding this issue in any depth, or unraveling the web of self-deceptions at the heart of Israeli society.

It's like you guys learned nothing from my work.

Edited October 6 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

When you come in here acting defensive, it's clear there is no interest in you for understanding this issue in any depth, or unraveling the web of self-deceptions at the heart of Israeli society.

It's like you guys learned nothing from my work.

If I may share my position.

Every disagreement, argument, investigation, deepening etc is totally OK, interesting and desirable as long as the game is fair and there are no generalizations.

Edited October 6 by Nivsch

[Dabidoe]

None of us are immune from the web of self deception. Only a select few can truly "undo the cultural programming" and for whatever reason the actualization this forum represents will only ever apply to a % of our lives/behaviors. Vast majority of humanity will inevitably fall into outrage, bias, idiocy especially when talking about culture war topics.