Israel / Palestine News Thread

[MarkKol]

The Jews left Europe once Europe became peaceful, even with the Russo-Ukrainian war, I'd consider most of Western and Eastern Europe as a pretty peaceful place, they should've stayed. The Israel state seems like a mistake to me, from Its founding to its current situation. Once the Jews decided to found their own state in the Middle East, they brought death to the Palestinians and to themselves.

Edited October 4 by MarkKol

[zazen]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My fave topic is truth.

If Israelis wanna use violence and do ethnic cleansing that's fine, but don't lie to us about it, with the fake moral grandstanding. The issue is that Zionists refuse to admit the relativity of the issue, they claim moral absolutes and high ground.

If you wanna plead survival. Fine. Then Palestinian bombs are also survival. And so was Hitler.

People often see the issue as complex and full of weeds not to be got into but it’s actually pretty straightforward. Straightening it out is hard, but it is simple to see who is the wronged party as acknowledged by the founding father of the nation - and that that party is still being wronged today is the whole problem.

The only reason people may find this situation complex is due to the decades of history in which a lot has happened and they lack the knowledge of facts on - including a ton of propaganda to obscure the situation. But if looked at bluntly, there is no moral high ground for the Israelis in this, just a moral quicksand that they and the West collectively are sinking in.

Can this really be what the West are backing and taking the world to the brink of global war for? Common lol. 

Edited October 4 by zazen

[royce]

 

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My fave topic is truth.

If Zionists wanna use violence and do ethnic cleansing, that's fine, but don't lie to us about it, with the fake moral grandstanding. The issue is that Zionists refuse to admit the relativity of the issue, they claim moral absolutes and high ground for themselves, and do the crocodile tears as soon as they get a taste of their own medicine.

If you wanna plead survival, fine. Then Oct 7th was also survival. And so was Hitler.

The problem is this: survival for me but not for thee.

uff 

[royce]

[Inliytened1]

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My fave topic is truth.

If Zionists wanna use violence and do ethnic cleansing, that's fine, but don't obfuscate about it, with moral grandstanding.

Oh Ok so that's where all the fuss is.  Its all clear now.

Edited October 4 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Oh Ok so that's where all the fuss is.  Its all clear now.

What I most take offense to in this conflict is the propaganda and biased coverage of it. The corrupt epistemology of it.

Because without a truthful and objective view of the situation, the situation cannot be made sense of, and cannot ultimately be resolved.

Justice and peace requires truth. Which explains why peace is so hard to keep.

Edited October 4 by Leo Gura

[Alex4]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Against the Native Americans, yes.

Although I never read the America founding fathers employing the tactics of Ben-Gurion's and Menachim Begin's squads.

The early Spanish were definitely terroristic towards the natives.

Didn't the spanish succeed at the end?

[Alex4]

9 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

The far right supports the strong and the bully.

The far left supports the weak and the bullied.

Israel is the strong and the bully.

Palestine is the weak and the bullied.

Simple as that.

How come all right wingers in Europe support Ukraine?

[Nivsch]

5 hours ago, MarkKol said:

Once the Jews decided to found their own state in the Middle East, they brought death to the Palestinians and to themselves.

You yourself most likely wouldn't agree to establish your state on a random land others would choose for you. You would feel even more humilliated, empty and meaningless. This is what many people miss out and fail to see on this issue. The choice of Israel was inevitable after this trauma.

Edited October 4 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

5 hours ago, zazen said:

The only reason people may find this situation complex is due to the decades of history in which a lot has happened and they lack the knowledge of facts on - including a ton of propaganda to obscure the situation. But if looked at bluntly, there is no moral high ground for the Israelis in this, just a moral quicksand that they and the West collectively are sinking in.

Can this really be what the West are backing and taking the world to the brink of global war for? Common lol. 

The issue IS complex. You just see the West as a spirit-less unauthentic unnatural entity (whereas the Palestinians and Arabs as the only natural, organic, wisdom based...) and this subconscious view is projected now on every little thing Israel does or did. But this by itself is an artifical and biased view of course.

Edited October 4 by Nivsch

[PurpleTree]

1 hour ago, Alex4 said:

How come all right wingers in Europe support Ukraine?

They don’t. Orban, AfD, Le Pen, Geert Wilders, Swiss right wing, Slovakian president, Austrian right wing etc. are Putin fanboys and girls.

Edited October 4 by PurpleTree

[Alex4]

41 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

They don’t. Orban, AfD, Le Pen, Geert Wilders, Swiss right wing, Slovakian president, Austrian right wing etc. are Putin fanboys and girls.

They are the minority within the right. The entire center-right (PP) and the majority of the far-right in Europe support Ukraine. 

[PurpleTree]

59 minutes ago, Alex4 said:

They are the minority within the right. The entire center-right (PP) and the majority of the far-right in Europe support Ukraine. 

How are they a minority? If they are a minority then a very big one

Center, center right, center left are team Ukraine

most rightwing are Putin fanbois

some left wing are Putin fangirls

Edited October 4 by PurpleTree

[How to be wise]

On 02/10/2024 at 3:20 AM, Leo Gura said:

It's much worse than illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants don't try to grab land for their native country.

It's a deliberate weaponization of immigration, with military, financial, and political support from the state.

Imagine if the American government paid 500,000 US citizens to move south of the border, build little cities, and then build exclusive super highways back to the US. And then the US military patrolled those highways shooting any Mexicans who protested and bulldozed their houses.

It's like a growing fungus.

Not their native country! Almost all the Israeli Jews today (93-95%) are descendants of Jews that came to Israel after 1948.
 

On the other hand, there are millions of Palestinian refugees living in the surrounding Arab countries who are all descendants of Arabs living in Palestine before 1948.

[royce]

 

[royce]

https://x.com/khamenei_ir

[PurpleTree]

7 minutes ago, royce said:

https://x.com/khamenei_ir

Pot calling the kettle black.

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, royce said:

https://x.com/khamenei_ir

Great example of relativity at work.

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

Pot calling the kettle black.

Of course.

Projection.

Be the content of the twitts true or not (partially highly streched and dichotomic), he isn't better by any mean than the relatively deep Right Wing Israeli sector he addresses.

Edited October 4 by Nivsch

[royce]

Regarding the political assassinations carried out by Israel, which it has placed at the top of its priorities, I’d like to remind everyone of a few points:

- Sameh Asker

Firstly, World War I was sparked by a political assassination—the assassination of the Archduke of Austria. This destructive war claimed the lives of tens of millions and didn’t lead to a decisive and clear victory for any party. It weakened all sides involved—Russia among the Allies, and Turkey and Austria from the Central Powers. It also weakened Britain and France, leading to successive declarations of independence from their colonies, including Egypt, which witnessed the revolution of 1919 and achieved independence in 1922.

Secondly, U.S. President John F. Kennedy was assassinated in 1963 during the peak of the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union. This did not harm the U.S. in any significant way, as he was promptly replaced by another president.

Thirdly, history has witnessed the emergence of religious extremist groups specializing in political assassinations, such as the Kharijites and Assassins (Hashashin) in Islam, and the Zealots and Sicarii in Judaism. However, these groups failed to establish a powerful state or to create any intellectual movement or renaissance of any kind.

Fourthly, numerous political assassinations did not drive countries or groups to change their policies or weaken them. The assassination of Gandhi did not put an end to the Indian-Pakistani peace project, the assassination of Sadat did not halt the Egyptian-Israeli peace process, and the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. did not end the struggle against white racism. In most cases, such political assassinations lead to a firmer adherence to the principles of the victim and a moral challenge to ensure their mission succeeds.

Fifthly, in recent history in the Middle East, dozens of leaders of the Lebanese and Palestinian resistance movements have been assassinated. However, these movements remain strong and well-rooted, connected on the ground, and continue to fight against the Zionist enemy in various ways, receiving support through different channels.

Sixthly, in Egypt, thousands of leaders and soldiers from the Egyptian police and military have been assassinated in a series of terrorist acts that have spanned from the 1970s to the present day. Despite this, these acts did not weaken the strength, unity, or support of the security forces. Instead, they gained deep expertise in dealing with such incidents and developed an understanding of the psychology of terrorism, enabling them to respond to it appropriately.

Philosophically, political assassination raises questions about the morals and values that drive perpetrators to commit such acts. Despite the brutality of war, there remains a glimmer of light or a window for political dialogue and peace. Political assassination breeds inherited hatred across generations, making peace elusive, and raises generations in a spirit of revolutionary revenge. This reality is evident in Palestine, where one of the reasons for the continued violence and war is the ongoing political assassinations that have occurred since the establishment of the State of Israel up to today.

Political assassination neither creates victory nor peace; it spreads fear and distrust, serving as a prelude to revolutionary acts of revenge. Fear is not exclusive to the weak but also to the strong, as a driving force behind their oppression is often a deep sense of fear.

Moreover, the strength of a resistance movement is not built by a single individual but is rather the product of a complex and diverse network of emotions, beliefs, ideologies, and convictions that generate military, human, and material power. The assassination of a single individual—whether a member or a leader—does not alter the core functioning of this network, which requires intellectual responses, moral projects, and peace and tolerance to properly absorb.

Israel’s overarching policy of political assassinations since its establishment has not brought it power. Rather, its strength is derived from just two factors: (1) American and Western support and (2) the internal religious and national conflicts among Arabs and Muslims. Beyond these, Israel is quite a fragile state with significant social weaknesses, especially due to its colonial nature. A detailed discussion on this would be extensive.

In general, wars are not won without good planning, military capability, adaptability, intelligent strategies that avoid creating excessive enemies or underestimating opponents, as well as social cohesion and a moral and ethical project to sustain oneself. Israel lacks most of these conditions. It consistently creates new enemies out of thin air, underestimates its opponents, and lacks a moral project that could prevent it from transgressing basic human norms and laws—such as killing children and women or committing acts of genocide.

In short: The Zionist policy of political assassination is not only morally and humanly flawed but also politically and militarily flawed. It represents one of the significant weaknesses of this entity and will eventually lead to its demise—whether by ending the occupation and achieving Palestinian independence, or by resulting in the destruction of the Israeli state itself through horrific massacres. Personally, I do not support the latter model, as I do not advocate massacres against civilians. The end of the occupation would suffice as a result of this Zionist recklessness, allowing for peace that we have been denied for the 76 years of Israel's existence.

-----

There's an additional model I'd like to bring to your attention: the case of Qassem Soleimani, the commander of the Quds Force in Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, who was assassinated in 2020.

Practically speaking, the Revolutionary Guard struck Israel twice after the man's assassination, and the transfer of lethal missiles to Yemen and Iraq also occurred after his death, not during his lifetime.

In essence, Soleimani's assassination did not weaken the Revolutionary Guard.

 

Edited October 5 by royce