Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, zazen said:

"Our God is not theirs."

False

[Nivsch]

@zazen Seems like he wanted to express an appreciation to their point of view and to understand them.

Since he was a prime minister of Israel he probably was patriotic enough to aknowledge Jews authentic right on this land too, living aside the Arabs (not instead).

He talked also about the importance of coexistance between the two nations.

Edited October 3 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

The new year holiday or Rosh Hashana in Israel today 🍎🍯🍷

 

Edited October 3 by Nivsch

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Spiritual Warfare said:

@Inliytened1 I agree with you, my friend. Don’t let anyone twist your facts.

Haha they sure are trying though   everyone has a perspective it's all in good fun.

 

 

Edited October 3 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

He talked also about the importance of coexistance between the two nations.

Ben-Gurion terrorized, killed, and ethncially cleansed 500,000+ Palestinians. He personally ordered terrorism and extermination of Palestinian villages. And he was thrilled with the results.

He never had any intentions of respecting the UN partion plan or borders, calculating to take more and more Palestinian land.

That is who founded your country. A terrorist.

Edited October 3 by Leo Gura

[Hatfort]

I think Israel should stop escalating now, but for real, and for their own sake too. First time Iran attacked they responded with something small, but in weeks they were attacking Iranian soil again, killing opponent leaders, plus acts that can only be defined as terrorism against civilians. If that's their approach again, the third attack from Iran will be harder, as the second was. The Iron Dome doesn't work, there hasn't been bigger damage because Iran decided not to hit harder. But at some point, restraint is not worth it if only your side applies it.

Netanyahu and his whole government are out of their mind though, they will probably attack Iran again, if it's not now, it will be later, they can't help themselves. 

Their ground operations in Lebanon are a disaster. They are only good at bombing buildings from the air, and killing unarmed civilians in Gaza or the West Bank. They have also a pretty good intelligence and spy service, that we can acknowledge. But for real war, in Lebanon, there's Hezbollah, they have no chance, it's not the first time they've tried. Hamas is nothing compared to Hezbollah, and they have not defeated Hamas, by the way. Palestinians don't hate Hamas, they hate Israel for what they are doing to them, they see Hamas as their defender, because that's exactly what they are, and they won't be short on recruits in the future. Hasbara is fine, but that won't win you a war. Besides history is stubborn, it doesn't change no matter how much you insist or gaslight.

[Inliytened1]

5 hours ago, zazen said:

Live by the sword die by the sword? More like live under occupation die under it. Maybe Israel shouldn’t dehumanise, destroy and deny Palestinians their inalienable rights that the West so proudly claim to have architected.

But of course they don’t embody what they preach - Western civilisation is the land of the free and the home of the “do as I say, not as I do” mentality.

 

But tbis doesn't mean Nazrallah didn't deserve what was coming to him.  

Edited October 3 by Inliytened1

[zazen]

4 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

They have also a pretty good intelligence and spy service, that we can acknowledge.

They even know the shitting patterns of their allies.

“Boris Johnson claimed he found a listening device in his personal bathroom at the British Foreign Office after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu used it.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/10/03/boris-johnson-bug-found-bathroom-netanyahu-visit/

“The U.S. government concluded within the past two years that Israel was most likely behind the placement of cellphone surveillance devices that were found near the White House and other sensitive locations around Washington, according to three former senior U.S. officials with knowledge of the matter.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/12/israel-white-house-spying-devices-1491351

[Spiritual Warfare]

13 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Haha they sure are trying though   everyone has a perspective it's all in good fun.

 

 

Yes, but sometimes it can be very exhausting when some people say things without good justification.

[Inliytened1]

11 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

I think Israel should stop escalating now, but for real, and for their own sake too. First time Iran attacked they responded with something small, but in weeks they were attacking Iranian soil again, killing opponent leaders, plus acts that can only be defined as terrorism against civilians. If that's their approach again, the third attack from Iran will be harder,

Honestly i think Iran only retaliated because they felt obligated to.  It was a feeble counter strike.   I honestly don't intuit that they want any part of what Israel and the US will be serving.  So I think Israel doesn't really have to do anything of the sort.

Edited October 3 by Inliytened1

[Karmadhi]

5 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

Sometimes i think they mostly just support Israel because extreme left wingers are supporting Palestinians and such.

The far right supports the strong and the bully.

The far left supports the weak and the bullied.

Israel is the strong and the bully.

Palestine is the weak and the bullied.

Simple as that.

Edited October 3 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Ben-Gurion terrorized, killed, and ethncially cleansed 500,000+ Palestinians. He personally ordered terrorism and extermination of Palestinian villages. And he was thrilled with the results.

He never had any intentions of respecting the UN partion plan or borders, calculating to take more and more Palestinian land.

That is who founded your country. A terrorist.

And you still go on about how Israel is a "liberal democracy" filled with Western values.

It is in reality more close to countries like Iran, Russia or China when it comes to moral development and biases.

Name me 1 thing Russia, Iran or China have done in the last 20 years that is worse than what Israel has done in the past 20 years?

I am waiting.

Edited October 3 by Karmadhi

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Enough Holocaust crocodile tears. Has zero relevance to Gaza.

Israel killed 15,000 childen in the last year. Face that without rationalization.

 

Holocaust crocodile tears? Classic. 

I'll remember that one next time I walk into the museum.  I'm gonna cry me a river of Holocaust crocodile tears  😀

But no way on the 15k children - sorry..Claude said 200.

[Karmadhi]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

But no way on the 15k children - sorry..Claude said 200.

You guys made such a huge outrage over the Hamas attack which killed 95% adults (30 kids killed from 1100 overall), yet when Israel kills 30% childreen (15.000 from 45.000) it is "just war".

Israel is making Hamas which is quite brutal on its own end, seem soft.

Edited October 3 by Karmadhi

[Hatfort]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Honestly i think Iran only retaliated because they felt obligated to.  It was a feeble counter strike.   I honestly don't intuit that they want any part of what Israel and the US will be serving.  So I think Israel doesn't really have to do anything of the sort.

Biden was making that point too, he doesn't want the war to escalate. I think Israel shouldn't respond, but I doubt they won't. The counterstrike made a clear point, the Iron Dome doesn't work. A war with Iran is not in the interest of the US and the West either, economically speaking. Although the dog is unleashed, it can happen.

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

Ben Gurion’s words:

“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”
David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.”
— David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

https://www.progressiveisrael.org/ben-gurions-notorious-quotes-their-polemical-uses-abuses/

From the primary founder of Israel itself, Israel’s version of George Washington. 

He also said:

Quote

“We do not wish, we do not need to expel the Arabs and take their place. All our aspirations are built upon the assumption — proven throughout all our activity in the Land — that there is enough room in the country for ourselves and the Arabs.”

“Palestine is not an empty country . . . on no account must we injure the rights of the inhabitants.”

“I am unwilling to forego even one percent of Zionism for 'peace'---yet I do not want Zionism to infringe upon even one percent of legitimate [Palestinian] Arab rights.”

I think he had some ideals but ultimately put his cause first. Given he was European during some of the worst atrocities and wars, I imagine he was under no illusions that the world is fair.

Unfortunate, but now we have to reckon with the current reality. 

[Raze]

16 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

 

Holocaust crocodile tears? Classic. 

I'll remember that one next time I walk into the museum.  I'm gonna cry me a river of Holocaust crocodile tears  😀

But no way on the 15k children - sorry..Claude said 200.

They’ve confirmed to have dropped more bombs on Gaza than what was dropped on Dresden, London, and Hamburg in ww2 combined, Gaza is smaller than Las Vegas and half the population of 2 million is children.

If anything it’s probably higher than 15K, those are just the confirmed.

this is one western doctors account of what he saw:

 

[Nivsch]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Ben-Gurion terrorized, killed, and ethncially cleansed 500,000+ Palestinians. He personally ordered terrorism and extermination of Palestinian villages. And he was thrilled with the results.

He never had any intentions of respecting the UN partion plan or borders, calculating to take more and more Palestinian land.

That is who founded your country. A terrorist.

I accept what you say.

I am not so familiar with him in details, but fair enough to acknowledge the dark side of what has happaned and how he was directly involved in it.

However, not istead of what you say but in addition, this civil war was a result of almost 30 years of gradual escalation that began in the 1920's. 

When overlooking this gradual thousands-steps-length process of almost 30 years of escalation and focusing only on the end result, the chance to abuse the situation to the favor of one side or another is very high, even with the best of intentions of the source, let alone when the source favors one side to begin with.

Hence the distance between an only one sided ethnic cleansing and a war between two sides that fight each other (and right, do evil things too to one another) is as short as 1mm.

Any ducomentary that isn't extremely careful will very fast drift away to an alternative reality in which one of the sides is the evil one and the other is the innocent, without even realizing it has been drifted by a powerful subcurrent.

Edited October 3 by Nivsch

[Raze]

 

[royce]