Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, hundreth said:

If

 

 

I think Iran will eventually have nukes, and there is a chance they would actually use them. If they did, it would be catastrophic for everyone. 

 

This is the kind of fear mongering that led to our going into Iraq and removing Hussein.  So be careful with that.   Could end up a mistake.

Edited October 2 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

Their islam won't ever allow them to use nukes ever.

I don't buy that at all.

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

Iran won't use nukes even if it had nukes.

I strongly believe that they are not that radical.

Their islam won't ever allow them to use nukes ever.

Unless their rules of war change.

If it’s WW3 they would probably 

Russia, China, Iran etc. vs West, Japan etc.

[hundreth]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

This is the kind of fear mongering that led to our going into Iraq and removing Hussein.  So be careful with that.   Could end up a mistake.

I'm against the invasion of Iran and regime change if you haven't noticed. Just stating realities. I think there are other ways to prevent this from happening. 

[Atb210201]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't buy that at all.

Well I don't know what they'd do either.

But I buy it to some extent.

Maybe I'm wrong here.

[Nivsch]

8 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Yea i’ve been to Israel.

Without the religious nuts it’s very European or Western. Lots of hostels, parties and such. But religious nuts and tensions between groups (secular, religious, jews, arabs) make a big part of the country.

The tensions and polarization are big yes. Especially between pro and anti Netanyahu today.

Edited October 2 by Nivsch

[Atb210201]

1 minute ago, PurpleTree said:

If it’s WW3 they would probably 

Russia, China, Iran etc. vs West, Japan etc.

Maybe depends on the situation but they never want to be the starter of war anywhere I think they are truthful in this one though.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

Well I don't know what they'd do either.

But I buy it to some extent.

Maybe I'm wrong here.

There is a big difference between using nukes to start an attack vs using nukes in response to a nuclear attack on you.

I do not think Iran would use a nuke to start an attack. But they would certainly use it if invaded.

All that Iran having a nuke means is that they cannot be invaded. Which is proper. No one should be free to invade Iran. This is the situation in North Korea.

Edited October 2 by Leo Gura

[Atb210201]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

There is a big difference between using nukes to start an attack vs using nukes in response to a nuclear attack on you.

I do not think Iran would use a nuke to start an attack. But they would certainly use it if invaded.

Yes in that case I'm with you.

They want to build nukes in case of protection and safety from outside powers just in case to make them afraid.

Edited October 2 by Atb210201

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Atb210201 said:

Yes in that case I'm with you.

They want to build nukes in case of protection and safety from outside powers just in case to make them afraid.

So what's the biggest issue the people have with the current regime?    I'm glad religion keeps them from certain evils but what evils are they doing that seems to evade Islam or that they remain blinded to and refuse to apply Islam to?

Edited October 2 by Inliytened1

[Raze]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is a big difference between using nukes to start an attack vs using nukes in response to a nuclear attack on you.

I do not think Iran would use a nuke to start an attack. But they would certainly use it if invaded.

All that Iran having a nuke means is that they cannot be invaded. Which is proper. No one should be free to invade Iran. This is the situation in North Korea.

Two major issues with this

- Iran trying to get nukes could be used as an excuse to invade like was done to Iraq

- even if the current regime won’t there is no telling what will happen in the future, imagine it collapses and there is a civil war, what happens to the nukes

We could have had a nuclear weapon free zone in the Middle East like we do in Latin America and Africa, but despite Iran proposing it the US blocked it to avoid having to inspect Israel for nuclear weapons which they created illegally.

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Raze said:

- Iran trying to get nukes could be used as an excuse to invade like was done to Iraq

Could? Netanyahu has already made this case. That's his position.

Quote

- even if the current regime won’t there is no telling what will happen in the future, imagine it collapses and there is a civil war, what happens to the nukes

Def a problem.

Edited October 2 by Leo Gura

[Atb210201]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

So what's the biggest issue the people have with the current regime?  

They want more freedom like the west.

Basically they just want their lives to be like western people.

Liberalism is what people want but Islam won't allow for that very much it has it's own strict and defined sharia laws.

Islam is basically against the modern world in essence based on the sharia law.

It says the west is so drowned in materialism and is falling deeper and deeper away from God and spirituality.

As the regime in Iran is also in the hands of the so called elite spiritual leaders of the Islamic world so this is the case and the west and Iran are the opposites of each other you could say.

Most of the people want western people's lifestyles and Muslim people don't want that and are against that and say it is so materialistic and shallow and their liberalism and freedom is all a house of cards and the true freedom and liberty is the freedom and Liberation from nafs or ego. This is basically the entire philosophy of islam not desiring materialistic goals and desiring for good deeds and Liberation from ego and going to heaven for the hereafter.

But also people feel like they have been taken hostage by the regime's ideologies and can't have their liberalism and freedom in the way they wish to live and they also see western movies and with the internet so they wish that kind of lifestyle which is fair.

Islam's laws are for the community and all society and do not think religion is for the individual they do think that but also they think there are some laws for the whole society to follow.

So that's also the internal war within the country with people from two sides against each other although it divides into some sub sides as well.

Edited October 3 by Atb210201

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Raze said:

Two major issues with this

- Iran trying to get nukes could be used as an excuse to invade like was done to Iraq

- even if the current regime won’t there is no telling what will happen in the future, imagine it collapses and there is a civil war, what happens to the nukes

We could have had a nuclear weapon free zone in the Middle East like we do in Latin America and Africa, but despite Iran proposing it the US blocked it to avoid having to inspect Israel for nuclear weapons which they created illegally.

They did it because a nation should have their own control.   If they want to build nukes they should be able to.   For their own defense.  If a civil war took place and the nukes fell into the wrong hands how would you know?  You can't know until certain behavior is expressed.  

Can a nation just out of the blue just launch a nuclear attack?  Yes but it is that probable?  No but this can happen now so it's not anything that isn't a current threat now 

Edited October 2 by Inliytened1

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Atb210201 said:

freedom and liberty is the freedom and Liberation from nafs or ego. This is basically the entire philosophy of islam not desiring materialistic goals and desiring for good deeds and Liberation from ego and going to heaven for the hereafter.

But don’t many of those strict and Muslim leaders who tout this "western materialism is bad" stuff live very wealthy amd have many material possessions and also many of their children live wealthy and some study in the west and have expensive cars and such?

[Raze]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

They did it because a nation should have their own control.   If they want to build nukes they should be able to.   For their own defense.  If a civil war took place and the nukes fell into the wrong hands how would you know?  You can't know until certain behavior is expressed.  

Can a nation just out of the blue just launch a nuclear attack?  Yes but it is that probable?  No but this can happen now so it's not anything that isn't a current threat now 

Efforts should be made to stop volatile countries with lots of enemies from having nukes, it just takes one to go off and we are in a nuclear war.

US law also states they shouldn’t give military aid to countries that create nukes outside of the non proliferation treaty. 

Edited October 2 by Raze

[Atb210201]

25 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I'm glad religion keeps them from certain evils but what evils are they doing that seems to evade Islam or that they remain blinded to and refuse to apply Islam to?

It's what they saw with the regime's behaviour towards women mostly two years ago with Mahsa Amini's death caused by the hijab keepers forces.

Although some of the supporters of the regime claimed that she was an Israeli spy but nobody believes them. They are just angry with the regime very much and call them liars.

And also the economy is dying here it's just so hard to live in Iran.

We should work for almost 20 years probably more just to be able to buy a house or something with a regular job.

It's just awful the regime blames it on the sanctions applied to Iran by the west but again people are not in line with the regime mostly and want them gone and want a more friendly regime with the west.

Edited October 2 by Atb210201

[Atb210201]

15 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

But don’t many of those strict and Muslim leaders who tout this "western materialism is bad" stuff live very wealthy amd have many material possessions and also many of their children live wealthy and some study in the west and have expensive cars and such?

It is said that the supreme leader of Iran lives in a very small house with everything minimal attitude.

I don't know though lots of people don't buy it lots of the supporters do and even say we have been to his house and it's true but I myself don't know lots of them are claimed to be living very minimalistically by others not by themselves some maybe by themselves also.

Although some of their kids are living in western countries lots of them so that's also one main point of conflict sometimes in Iran against them and it is true.

Edited October 2 by Atb210201

[Inliytened1]

13 minutes ago, Raze said:

Efforts should be made to stop volatile countries with lots of enemies from having nukes, it just takes one to go off and we are in a nuclear war.

US law also states they shouldn’t give military aid to countries that create nukes outside of the non proliferation treaty. 

I would agree based  on current stability but number of enemies really isn't logical.  

Edited October 2 by Inliytened1

[PurpleTree]

12 minutes ago, Raze said:

Efforts should be made to stop volatile countries with lots of enemies from having nukes, it just takes one to go off and we are in a nuclear war.

US law also states they shouldn’t give military aid to countries that create nukes outside of the non proliferation treaty. 

Yea efforts were made and papers and nuclear treaties were signed and such there was a stability for decades . But now things seem to be changing because there is always fear of a bigger war or ww3 and for example Russia and China want a new world order. So Russia will probably help more friendly nations get stronger or even nuclear weapons. Which seems logical but can easily backfire when such weapons get into the wrong hands at some point.