Israel / Palestine News Thread

[hundreth]

11 hours ago, royce said:

So, to correct your question, it should be: How do you achieve peace with my "red-stage" country when dealing with "red-stage" people?

Give these people their fucken rights 

The issue is that the majority of both Palestinians and Israelis won't accept anything but 100% of the land. 

How do you solve an issue where either side won't accept any compromise? 

[Nivsch]

http://en.cis.org.il/

[royce]

53 minutes ago, hundreth said:

The issue is that the majority of both Palestinians and Israelis won't accept anything but 100% of the land. 

 

The claim that Palestinians will only accept 100% of the land is a myth; they are in a weak position. In reality, Netanyahu has no intention of negotiating with them. Instead, his strategy involves bombing and invading southern Lebanon, targeting Iranian-aligned forces in Syria, Iraq, and Yemen, and further normalizing relations with authoritarian regimes in the Middle East. He intends to carry out exactly what he stated at the United Nations.

[Karmadhi]

This thread is 174 pages now.

I see as much chance of the discussions on this thread as I do on the Palestine Israel conflict being permanently resolved now.

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, royce said:

The claim that Palestinians will only accept 100% of the land is a myth; they are in a weak position. In reality, Netanyahu has no intention of negotiating with them. Instead, his strategy involves bombing and invading southern Lebanon, targeting Iranian-aligned forces in Syria, Iraq, and Yemen, and further normalizing relations with authoritarian regimes in the Middle East. He intends to carry out exactly what he stated at the United Nations.

Well, I hope you're right. Because there are many quotes of Palestinian leaders expressing as much.

[zazen]

16 hours ago, Vercingetorix said:

are you just copying fake news here? nowhere in the paper attached it is stated anything similar to  "The era of conflict with Hezbollah has ended"

My bad, I can’t read Hebrew and trusted the post. What does it state?

Whatever it may be, the point is that though a tactical win can be celebrated to boost morale it shouldn’t be viewed as a decisive blow and the beginning of a peaceful Middle East that Israel heroically ushered in. That’s just some of the sentiment I’ve seen online ie Jared Kushner's tweet. It is definetely symbolic and a huge hit on Hezbollah, including the aura they’ve built around being ahead in counter-intelligence. 

Thing is, Hezbollah isn’t just a militia anymore but an institution embedded within Lebanons politics and society. It’s evolved beyond its origins as they’ve pledged to be defenders of the Shia community in Lebanon which makes up almost a third of its population and who predominate in the South. As long as Shias in Lebanon exist, they’ll exist, and have a mechanism to continuously renew their ranks in the face of a perceived threat from Israel.

If Israel thinks the moment is ripe off the back of this to invade Lebanon or start attacking it the way they have Gaza - I’m not sure how that will turn out. Hezbollah have thousands of miles of tunnels and it will be a game of guerrilla warfare in their favour. In almost a year Hamas are still operating in Gaza with limited communication, supply chains etc. On top of that, Israel will have to deal with the global backlash and made to look like the aggressors yet again just as with Gaza. Maybe this was the strategy of Hezbollah, to tarnish Israel’s image and lure them into the den.

Edited September 29 by zazen

[hundreth]

12 minutes ago, zazen said:

Thing is, Hezbollah isn’t just a militia anymore but an institution embedded within Lebanons politics and society. It’s evolved beyond its origins as they’ve pledged to be defenders of the Shia community in Lebanon which makes up almost a third of its population and who predominate in the South. As long as Shias in Lebanon exist they’ll exist and have a mechanism to continuously renew their ranks in the face of a perceived threat from Israel.

What exactly is the threat from Israel?

Israel has no territorial aims on Lebanon, they never have. The only time Israel becomes involved in Lebanon are when there are groups firing at them from the south of Lebanon. In the past, it was the PLO. Now, it is Hezbollah.

How come Jordan and Egypt don't need an anti Israel terrorist group hijacking their borders?

Edited September 29 by hundreth

[Raze]

 

[zazen]

11 minutes ago, hundreth said:

What exactly is the threat from Israel?

Israel has no territorial aims on Lebanon, they never have. The only time Israel becomes involved in Lebanon are when there are groups firing at them from the south of Lebanon. In the past, it was the PLO. Now, it is Hezbollah.

That’s why I said perceived threat, whether they are or not - Israel can be perceived that way due to their history of having occupied that part of Lebanon for 18 years. The 2006 war is still fairly recent enough to be used to fuel this perception.

Also, there are daily airspace violations by Israel breaching Lebanons airspace and sovereignty. The United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) and the Lebanese government have repeatedly reported these violations but nothing is enforced or changes. And these incursions go into the hundreds annually which contribute to the perception of a potential threat.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/09/huge-scale-and-impact-of-israeli-incursions-over-lebanon-skies-revealed-research-overflights

[Husseinisdoingfine]

Vaush’s takes here were perfect.

 

[Vercingetorix]

3 hours ago, zazen said:

My bad, I can’t read Hebrew and trusted the post. What does it state?

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, hundreth said:

Israel has no territorial aims on Lebanon, they never have.

They do and have.

Hardcore Zionists believe part of southern Lebanon belongs to Israel. Their plan is to ethnically cleanse that region and eventually take it over. This has always been their plan from the 1940s. They also plan to take parts of Jordan.

Watch the documentaries I posted on my blog and you will see their real plans.

Edited September 29 by Leo Gura

[Davino]

I've just had an obvious insight. This war is the classic: Bring X to its former Glory.

Make America great again... And many others.

This war at the core is fueled by the most common conservative wet dream.

[Nemra]

32 minutes ago, Davino said:

This war is the classic: Bring X to its former Glory.

It's quite disheartening, as people are easily manipulated by that. Those types of people think that a specific land is literally imprinted in their DNA.

I hear till this day a lot of people loving a mountain that doesn't belong to them, which at a certain period it did, and have been indoctrinated that it literally belongs to them.

[Leo Gura]

Make America Great Again

Make Russia Great Agian

Make China Great Again

Make India Great Again

Make Persia Great Again

Make Islam Great Again

Make Men Great Again

Make Isrealites Great Again

Edited September 29 by Leo Gura

[Heaven]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

They do and have.

Hardcore Zionists believe part of southern Lebanon belongs to Israel. Their plan is to ethnically cleanse that region and eventually take it over. This has always been their plan from the 1940s. They also plan to take parts of Jordan.

Watch the documentaries I posted on my blog and you will see their real plans.

Their “real plans” sounds like a conspiracy/cherry picking from some extremist which every country has.

If Israel wanted to occupy Jordan/Lebanon you would see it happen a long time ago. 
 

In every single war with Lebanon, Israel could occupy those territories and gave it up. 
 

The story that if Israel will give up some land and all Muslims in the world would suddenly calm down is a lie and the risk is too high to try it.

The West supports Israel and if you disagree with Israel you basically disagree with democracy. You are all welcome to try living in Iran/Russia for some time to taste your own medicine.

Criticizing is healthy but for almost a year to only highlight the bad is just pitiful. 

Edited September 29 by Heaven

[Leo Gura]

This is the land they regard as given to them by God:

Do you really think they are going to surrender land given to them by God? Just because some UN guy told them to?

Edited September 29 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

39 minutes ago, Heaven said:

Their “real plans” sounds like a conspiracy

It's just part of the historical record. And some of them admit it openly today.

They have a slow and patient expansion strategy. Grow slowly and grab whenever an opportunity arises. They will grab whatever the world lets them get away with.

Quote

if you disagree with Israel you basically disagree with democracy.

Hogwash.

Democracy is not a license to abuse others.

Edited September 29 by Leo Gura

[Nemra]

@Leo Gura, I think those people can't handle development, so they rather go back to what they have been or think their elders were used to as a quick fix.

But I don't understand how they don't get that making great again could always be said. How could they not realize that their elders could have said the same thing.

[Raze]

11 minutes ago, Heaven said:

if you disagree with Israel basically disagree with democracy.

Israel keeps millions of Palestinians occupied who have no vote for the government that controls them, it isn’t disagreeing with democracy to disagree with Israel’s lack of democracy.