Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Ayham]

@royce how so?

[integration journey]

5 minutes ago, Ayham said:

@Leo Gura

After careful reflection, I was able to conclude that you were right, organizations such as Hezboallah don't work in the way where you can just attack the leader and scatter the rest, but rather, they have very strong motivations that are at the core of their identity, killing Nasarallah will only create 50 more Nasrallahs.

Fuck how did I miss this.

How would it create 50 more Nasrallahs? Did killing hitler create 50 more hitlers? Nasarallah was a war criminal that is hated by most Syrians and Lebanese and he needed to go because of his crimes in Syria and his constant lying of being part of the “resistance” even though he was an Iranian puppet 

[Ayham]

@integration journey hitler is very different, here you have a number of groups, in lebanon, syria, iraq, iran, yemen, and so on, all with the same fundamentalist religious extremist beliefs, their belief is so strong that they won't give it up no matter what, it is literally their whole identity, when you kill their leader, many people will pop to avenge, to continue the legacy of their very dearly held leaders, to fight against the "evil enemy".

That's basically their primary motivation, because there is no way in hell they can let go of their identities or just scatter, that's quite literally ego death for them.

That's what makes those groups pop up again and again, you can't extinguish them, the more you extinguish, the more there will be people trying to continue on what the others did.

and in this case, when they align their political and terrorist agendas with a dogmatic belief in religion, it is much more dangerous because it is quite literally the absolute truth in life for them.

it goes on much deeper, it is disastrous recipe. 

[royce]

@Ayham  This is the inevitable result of global terrorism. When those in control act like terrorists, ,the presence of Hassan Nasrallah becomes meaningful.

Edited September 28 by royce

[Ayham]

@royce I want to hear a definition of terrorism from you

[royce]

@Ayham why ?

[integration journey]

Netanyahu vowed to end Hezbollah and Hamas. Hezbollah will definitely not be the same anymore. I hope Lebanon can recover from the hijacking of Hezbolah after this. Lebanon used to be such a beautiful and open country in the 90s 

[Ayham]

@royce because I am curious about your viewpoint
Which side are you on? how would you define terrorism?

For me, I tried to debate for each side and be able to see from both perspectives, I am trying to collect perspectives, at this point I hold a neutral opinion, I can understand why each side wants what they want, though I lean a bit to Hamas, I really sympathize with them and their cause, but at the same time, they have become a terrorist organization that won't actually be stopped, so I can see why Israel wants to completely eliminate them, yet Israel is also being genocidal with zero regard to civilians.

I am debating with myself whether to call Hamas as terrorists or not, I would like to hear both perspectives, from anyone here.

 

Edited September 28 by Ayham

[Vercingetorix]

5 hours ago, zazen said:

This is Israel’s response to the West literally calling for a 21 day ceasefire proposal to de-escalate and off the back of receiving another 8 billion USD from the US. Almost a year on from October 7th and the West has completely facilitated Israel to where it is now - which doesn’t seem any safer.

They mistake their “enemy” to be a snake they can strike in one blow, when it’s a hydra. As if decapitating hydras has ever been effective strategy - it only represents a tactical win that gives a false sense of hope.

are you just copying fake news here? nowhere in the paper attached it is stated anything similar to  "The era of conflict with Hezbollah has ended"

Edited September 29 by Vercingetorix

[royce]

1 hour ago, Ayham said:

Which side are you on?

In this conflict, I stand with the Palestinians, their resistance, and all those who support them.

 

1 hour ago, Ayham said:

how would you define terrorism?

Terrorism, in my opinion, is the cultivation of fear; making people afraid to think or act due to fear of consequences. It is not necessarily a bad thing in itself, but when it is used in a way mixed with injustice, it becomes something very vile and should provoke you. There must be a reaction. If there are no reactions to this injustice, it is an indication that these people have died 

 

The clearest example of terrorism today is Israel's actions in the region. They aim to label Hamas as a terrorist organization, okey i  will agree with the Zionist narrative for once

But why you  collectively punishing 2 million people, ??  their intention is to spread fear and deter any future similar actions, betting that such acts will not be repeated.

 

This will happen again, and next time, it won’t be 10,000 entering Israel but a million.

and What happened with Hezbollah was a setback, but they will learn from their mistakes. Issues with communication and security breaches will be resolved. It will be a prolonged conflict. These people began their resistance with stones; now that they have missiles and drones, how can you expect them to stop?

Edited September 29 by royce

[Vercingetorix]

All of you who claim Hezbollah is A Hydra, killing Nasrallah will only breed X more Terrorists and such. All of you who claim you should be nice to Hamas and Hezbollah, treat them with respect, otherwise you will only breed more hate - you are what we call in Israel - living in October's 6 Conception. You are naive, projecting your Green stage biases and not understanding the Rules of the middle East. In the middle east only Power is respected. in the middle east no one values human lives. In the middle it's a survivor's game and their is no fair play, only Killing your enemy. Watch Spiral Dynamics Red stage episode to understand better...

Anytime Israel is giving away land, anytime it seeks peace, anytime Israel is showing that it cares about human lives (like the Prisoner exchange deal of Gilad Shalit where thousands of terrorists were released for one soldier) it is seen as a weakness. 

After October 7th, Israel woke up from the old conception that It's possible to "make peace" through such means and rightfully so IMO started to play by the Only Rules that the middle east and Red stage understand: POWER. and by the away, how have Israel managed to make peace with Egypt and Jordan? only after defeating and overpowering them. In such a Place, as sad as it is, the only way to achieve peace is through Overpowering and destroying your opponents.

[Heaven]

1 hour ago, Ayham said:

@integration journey hitler is very different, here you have a number of groups, in lebanon, syria, iraq, iran, yemen, and so on, all with the same fundamentalist religious extremist beliefs, their belief is so strong that they won't give it up no matter what, it is literally their whole identity, when you kill their leader, many people will pop to avenge, to continue the legacy of their very dearly held leaders, to fight against the "evil enemy".

That's basically their primary motivation, because there is no way in hell they can let go of their identities or just scatter, that's quite literally ego death for them.

That's what makes those groups pop up again and again, you can't extinguish them, the more you extinguish, the more there will be people trying to continue on what the others did.

and in this case, when they align their political and terrorist agendas with a dogmatic belief in religion, it is much more dangerous because it is quite literally the absolute truth in life for them.

it goes on much deeper, it is disastrous recipe. 

IDF isn’t trying to explain terrorists why it’s bad. It terminates their enemies. In Dubai there is almost zero % crime rate, the reason for it is enforcement and fear.

After October 7th countries around Israel saw weakness and attacked, now Iran is fearful and doesn’t get involve. 
Fear is a great tool that always work when dealing with the masses.

 

[royce]

28 minutes ago, Vercingetorix said:

In such a Place, as sad as it is, the only way to achieve peace is through Overpowering and destroying your opponents

You will not achieve peace and the war is long

[royce]

@Ayham  https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1840184222897541454

 

 

Edited September 29 by royce

[royce]

https://chomskypc.wordpress.com/2015/11/22/august-15-2006-chomsky-my-dinner-with-hassan/

 

 

[Vercingetorix]

 

 

[Vercingetorix]

@royce So what is your peace proposal? how do you achieve peace when dealing with Red stage?

[royce]

38 minutes ago, Vercingetorix said:

@royce So what is your peace proposal? how do you achieve peace when dealing with Red stage?

Firstly, I disagree with your tone. Anyone listening to you would think that the Palestinians just landed from Mars and that you were forced to deal with them, which is the opposite of what actually happened.

Secondly, the idea that everything was fine before October 7 is outdated. With the internet, anyone can easily find out what the situation for Palestinians has been like over the past 100 years. I’m not sure who you’re trying to mislead on this forum.

Thirdly, the way you talk about the people of the Middle East, clearly aimed at a Western audience, paints them as if they’re savages and only you know how to handle them. This is a trivial perspective, and the Palestinian who defends his family  barefoot in Gaza is more developed than you and your entire country. and I am genuinely unbiased, but you behave like a tribe.

 

So, to correct your question, it should be: How do you achieve peace with my "red-stage" country when dealing with "red-stage" people?

Give these people their fucken rights 

[Nivsch]

5 hours ago, Vercingetorix said:

Anytime Israel is giving away land, anytime it seeks peace, anytime Israel is showing that it cares about human lives (like the Prisoner exchange deal of Gilad Shalit where thousands of terrorists were released for one soldier) it is seen as a weakness. 

It corresponds with 1993 when a huge terror wave came after Oslo Agreement, with 2000 when 2nd Intifada right after Camp David and when Hezbollah kidnapped 3 soldiers after Lebanon withdrawal, with 2003 when there was a rise in suicide bombing after Geneva negotiations, with 2005 when hamas came to power and Gaza has redicalized after Israel withdrawal from Gaza, with 2006 when Hezbollah initiated a kidnapping of 3 soldiers completely unprovoked what lead to 2nd Lebanon war, with 2007 when was a rise in terror after Anapolis negotiations, 2008 when was a rise in rockekts from Gaza after Doha conversations, 2010 when was a rise in terror after the negotiations, in 2013-14 there was more terror during the negotiations, with 2023 when oct7 came after years of giving money to hamas and letting thousands of Gazans to work in Israel freely daily for years and many of them were participate in oct7.

Edited September 29 by Nivsch

[How to be wise]

20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I know, but what were his beliefs and positions? Was he a genocidal lunatic?

Hezbollah were a party in Lebanon’s government, so not exactly against democracy.