Israel / Palestine News Thread

[PurpleTree]

8 minutes ago, Raze said:

how many countries overseas to it has China bombed in the last 100 years compared to the USA 

Ok many western countries also haven’t bombed other countries also a 50 million chinese killed in under mao also xinjang, tibet, hk etc

but would you rather live in china, russia, iran, saudi etc

or a western country

even if it weren’t for more opportunities/money but freedom of speech, the right to criticise the govt, lgbt freedoms, freedom in art, psychedelics etc

Edited September 22 by PurpleTree

[Raze]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

1) The book is not an annoymous account. And in Islam talking about rape is life-ending for women. Any woman who gets raped brings shame to her family and custom requires she be killed to restore family honor. So of course women are not going to come forward with their real names just to please your conspiracy minded self.

Is this the book we are discussing?

https://www.amazon.com/Gaddafis-Harem-Story-Young-Abuses/dp/0802121721

What is the proof this is a real person or it’s a real account, as far as I know this is just what the journalist said. 

You are massively extrapolating the honor killing phenomenon, plenty of Muslim women come out publicly about being raped and their family supports them, or even if they don’t they don’t get killed. Some came out publicly about Isis for example. 

Yes I find it hard to believe he could rape literally thousands and not a single one comes out publicly, like seriously not even one out of one hundred? He isn’t in power anymore so it’s not like they can hurt them. 

How is it a conspiracy, if we are just going by a book literally anyone could write anything. Maybe she could get corroboration from some larger organization.

Like I said it wouldn’t surprise me, dictators obviously do stuff like this, like Saddams sons, but that’s not proof. 

Edited September 22 by Raze

[Leo Gura]

@Raze If you are gonna take that stance then I have nothing more to say to you.

[Raze]

15 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Ok many western countries also haven’t bombed other countries also a 50 million chinese killed in under mao also xinjang, tibet, hk etc

but would you rather live in china, russia, iran, saudi etc

or a western country

even if it weren’t for more opportunities/money but freedom of speech, the right to criticise the govt, lgbt freedoms, freedom in art, psychedelics etc

I’m talking about foreign policy, not domestic policy, if your house gets bombed you wouldn’t consider it less of an issue if the bomber was pro lgbtq

Edited September 22 by Raze

[Heaven]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Raze If you are gonna take that stance then I have nothing more to say to you.

We gave up a long time ago. Thanks for trying

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

I’m talking about foreign policy, not domestic policy, if your house gets bombed you wouldn’t consider it less of an issue if the bomber was pro lgbtq

Ok what about russia and china meddling in korea, vietnam, afghanistan, eastern europe, tibet, taiwan, syria, chechnia etc etc

[Raze]

Just now, PurpleTree said:

Ok what about russia and china meddling in korea, vietnam, afghanistan, eastern europe, tibet, taiwan, syria, chechnia etc etc

That’s wrong too

[Jayson G]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Netanyahu is considering plan to force all civilians out of North Gaza:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/22/middleeast/netanyahu-gaza-hamas-expulsions-plan-intl/index.html

All hell will break loose soon.

You Israelis here are in for 50 years of new terrorist attacks. Palestinians will never forgive you.

And even us Americans will get hit.

This is like Bin Laden breeding ground x10.

@Leo Gura Is there any evidence to suggest that america will get hit aside from the anger we're contributing to (involvement in middle east and supporting israel)? .. asking partly because you just read 5 books and you've been studying these details in depth

Its been a while with this war happening and things have generally been fine here in US

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Jayson G said:

@Leo Gura Is there any evidence to suggest that america will get hit aside from the anger we're contributing to (involvement in middle east and supporting israel)? .. asking partly because you just read 5 books and you've been studying these details in depth

Its been a while with this war happening and things have generally been fine here in US

It's hard to say, but I suspect that all this Israeli carnage after Oct 7th will breed at least a couple of new Bin Ladens over the next 10-20 years.

Nothing is really being solved.

And they will hold America responsible. Which we are.

Arab terrorism will keep happening as long as Palestinians are denied a state. That's what history suggests.

Edited September 22 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

Osama bin Laden was wealthy and strategic. Most extremists aren’t. Also the US government has massive spying capabilities now and a huge internal security apparatus. It will be much harder to pull off another 9/11. 

Edited September 22 by Raze

[Leo Gura]

I don't expect a 9/11, but smaller scale bombings and such.

[Jayson G]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't expect a 9/11, but smaller scale bombings and such.

@Leo Gura oh okay thats not as bad as I was thinking, its a good thing we have a very powerful defense system in general (at least from a us citizen safety perspective)

[Raze]

One thing to note is a lot of terrorism was actually a attempt to replicate of state tactics. For example Bin Laden said he was inspired to do 9/11 by witnessing bombings of a tower in Lebanon. A much older example would be that Natives only started scalping people after they started getting scalped by hunters when the government was paying for them.

Former cia director here kind of implies we could see terrorists attempting to replicate something like the pager attack.

 

Edited September 23 by Raze

[Leo Gura]

The Soviet KGB assassinated the Afghan president, infiltrated Afghanistan with Marxist propaganda and thousands of spies, and astroturfed a Marxist revolution in a deeply Islamic nation, forcing Afghan girls into schools. They forced secularism down the Afghan's throats, violating many local norms and customs. They arrested and tortured thousands who opposed them, in classic Stalinist style.

There was nothing natural about Marxism in Afghanistan. The KGB tried to turn Afghanistan into a Communist police-state dictatorship in the fashion of Uncle Stalin. They even found a local Afghan warlord to be the local Stalin, with his own personality cult. He started plastering posters of his face across Afghanistan.

And then the Islamists fought back. Jihad was declared against the evil Communists, hunting down and hacking to death dozens of Communist Soviet advisors, along with their wives and children, displaying their corspes on pikes along city streets -- so hated were the secular Communists.

Soviet leadership in the Kremlin themselves admitted that socialism is incapable of resolving Afghanistan's Islamic fundamentalist problem. The head of the KGB said that Afghanistan is too backward for Lenin's philosophy to work. In a last ditch effort to save the situation the KGB told the Afghans to loosen secularism and allow for Islam, but it was too late, the Jihad was on.

Most of the Afghan military officers trained in the Soviet Union deserted the Communists and joined the Islamist revolution, because that's where their hearts lay. Then half the Communist Afghan army melted like snow, deserting into the mountains to join their brothers in the Jihad against the Soviets.

The leading architect of the Communist revolution in Afghanistan was a graduate of Columbia University, New York. He was hostile to the CIA and Americans. But in a sick twist the KGB eventually grew suspcious of their own architect and tried to assassinate him by poisoning, sniper, and a full military seige of his house, to replace him with an even more loyal Communist puppet.

The reason the Soviets eventually did a full land invasion of Afghanistan is because otherwise the entire Communist project was about to implode under the pressure of Islamic Jihad.

And all that happened before the CIA gave one dollar or one weapon to the Afghans.

1979.

Then Bin Laden created Al Queda, to join this Jihad against the godless Soviets.

Edited September 23 by Leo Gura

[Staples]

9 hours ago, Jayson G said:

@Leo Gura oh okay thats not as bad as I was thinking, its a good thing we have a very powerful defense system in general (at least from a us citizen safety perspective)

An attack on the scale of 9/11 is near-impossible nowadays. The precident was set then and security measures have increased immensely.

Information warfare and targeted assassinations of key POIs are the real concern now.

It should be obvious now that any mass civilian attack in the west only provokes extreme retaliation.

Very interesting share @Leo Gura. I never knew the soviets attacked Afghanistan at that scale.

Edited September 23 by Staples

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Staples said:

It should be obvious now that any mass civilian attack in the west only provokes extreme retaliation.

That's exactly what terrorists want.

They are doing martyrdom. Martyr means the highest place in heaven with God. A martyr is not worried about retaliation. A martyr gets to ask God to save up to 70 of his family members to join him in heaven.

To attack America and the Jews in defense of Islam is the highest, most selfless, most spiritual act there is in Islam. Imagine that how you view enlightenment is how a Jihadist views martyrdom. Martyrdom IS their enlightenment.

Edited September 23 by Leo Gura

[Staples]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

That's exactly what terrorists want.

That's a feature, not a bug.

They are doing martyrdom. Martyr means the highest place in heaven with God. A martyr is not worried about retaliation. A martyr gets to ask God to save up to 70 of his family members to join him in heaven.

To attack America and Jews to defend Islam is the highest, most selfless act there is in Islam. Imagine that how you view enlightenment is how a Jihadist views martyrdom. Martyrdom IS their enlightenment!

Smacked in the face with truth by Leo once again. Great point.

[Nivsch]

Former chief of staff / Head of IDF (2002-2005) and Minister of Defense (2013-2016) Moshe Yaalon.

Edited September 23 by Nivsch

[Sandhu]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's exactly what terrorists want.

They are doing martyrdom. Martyr means the highest place in heaven with God. A martyr is not worried about retaliation. A martyr gets to ask God to save up to 70 of his family members to join him in heaven.

To attack America and the Jews in defense of Islam is the highest, most selfless, most spiritual act there is in Islam. Imagine that how you view enlightenment is how a Jihadist views martyrdom. Martyrdom IS their enlightenment.

Yeah, I see these people around me. Yet this is not the complete picture of their psychological makeup. They are essentially stage Red + Radicals.

[Starlight321]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The Soviet KGB assassinated the Afghan president, infiltrated Afghanistan with Marxist propaganda and thousands of spies, and astroturfed a Marxist revolution in a deeply Islamic nation, forcing Afghan girls into schools. They forced secularism down the Afghan's throats, violating many local norms and customs. They arrested and tortured thousands who opposed them, in classic Stalinist style.

There was nothing natural about Marxism in Afghanistan. The KGB tried to turn Afghanistan into a Communist police-state dictatorship in the fashion of Uncle Stalin. They even found a local Afghan warlord to be the local Stalin, with his own personality cult. He started plastering posters of his face across Afghanistan.

And then the Islamists fought back. Jihad was declared against the evil Communists, hunting down and hacking to death dozens of Communist Soviet advisors, along with their wives and children, displaying their corspes on pikes along city streets -- so hated were the secular Communists.

Soviet leadership in the Kremlin themselves admitted that socialism is incapable of resolving Afghanistan's Islamic fundamentalist problem. The head of the KGB said that Afghanistan is too backward for Lenin's philosophy to work. In a last ditch effort to save the situation the KGB told the Afghans to loosen secularism and allow for Islam, but it was too late, the Jihad was on.

Most of the Afghan military officers trained in the Soviet Union deserted the Communists and joined the Islamist revolution, because that's where their hearts lay. Then half the Communist Afghan army melted like snow, deserting into the mountains to join their brothers in the Jihad against the Soviets.

The leading architect of the Communist revolution in Afghanistan was a graduate of Columbia University, New York. He was hostile to the CIA and Americans. But in a sick twist the KGB eventually grew suspcious of their own architect and tried to assassinate him by poisoning, sniper, and a full military seige of his house, to replace him with an even more loyal Communist puppet.

The reason the Soviets eventually did a full land invasion of Afghanistan is because otherwise the entire Communist project was about to implode under the pressure of Islamic Jihad.

And all that happened before the CIA gave one dollar or one weapon to the Afghans.

1979.

Then Bin Laden created Al Queda, to join this Jihad against the godless Soviets.

Just to underscore that. The afghan people clinging to their cultural ways and fighting against progressivism has even happened without direct pressure from the europeans. In the late 20ies and early thirties there was an civil war because the monarch tried to modernise and give women a little bit of freedom and soon after that an uprising and bloody civil war broke out. 

The history of internal afghan politics has always been utterly brutal. There is a lot to read about it on wikipedia