Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Raze said:

The US toppled Saddam it allowed Al Queda to take root there and lead to foreign fighters flooding into it and civil wars that killed hundreds of thousands. I don’t see how you can say their biggest issue wasn’t foreign intervention when it does that. 

Obviously Iraq is a special case and a big US mistake.

But if the US did not invade Iraq, it would still be an underdeveloped hell-hole run by Saddam's psychopathic sons.

And Muslims like Bin Laden would still criticize it for not being Islamic enough.

Edited Sunday at 09:42 PM by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Raze said:

That isn’t evidence, it was one journalists interview with a anonymous girl claiming it. I read summaries of the book.

1) It is very good evidence. You should read the book.

2) There are dozens of interviews of such girls.

What more evidence do you need? Video tapes of the rapes? Don't be silly. Gadaffi raped so many girls he didn't have time to video tape them all.

Edited Sunday at 09:48 PM by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

3 minutes ago, Raze said:

That isn’t evidence, it was one journalists interview with a anonymous girl claiming it. I read summaries of the book.

I’m not denying he’s a monster, but some claims of his army weaponizing rape were dismissed for lack of evidence by various human rights groups.

Even if he did what Leo said, in the grand scheme of things is much better than what happened to Libya.

1000 innocent lives ruined is much better than hundreds of thousnads.

I checked over 20.000 dead from the war in Libya and god knows how many on top due to collapsed health care etc.

Would not be surprised if the number of people that died trying to escape Libya via sea is greater than 1000.

Gaddafi being forcefully removed by the West is one of the worst things they have done on that region.

Pure criminal.

Edited Sunday at 09:42 PM by Karmadhi

[Leo Gura]

 

3 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Even if he did what Leo said, in the grand scheme of things is much better than what happened to Libya.

1000 innocent lives ruined is much better than hundreds of thousnads.

But Libyan's were sick of his rule. They wanted to do a revolution themsleves. You couldn't keep them supressed forever. At some point a revolution would need to happen.

You're assuming that a dictator can just peacefully stay in power forever. That's not how it works. The oppressed get restless.

Edited Sunday at 09:46 PM by Leo Gura

[Raze]

3 minutes ago, Heaven said:

@Raze Victim mentality won’t take you too far, look at Syria, Yemen etc..

It’s one of Leo’s first vids. Go watch it(It’s a life changing series).

No nation is flawless and there is definitely plenty place for improvement but to say that it’s all US fault when you can’t blame Israel now it’s a joke. 

If they don’t want to be blamed they can stop engaging in it.

The US indirectly created ISIS by toppling Saddam and creating a vacuum for Al Queda to recruit. The US and Israel funneled millions worth of weaponry to rebels try and topple Assad yet many of those weapons ended up in the hands of terrorist groups who the US and Israel then used as justification for mass air strikes and bombings, then Assad not wanting to be toppled started gassing people and got Iran and Russia to enter and commit mass murder. And millions fled the country meaning Syria lost most of their critical economy. 

No honest look at this situation would conclude that it isn’t in large part the fault of foreign powers. If a country did 5% of this to Israel you would blame it for everything up to a Jew stubbing their toe. 

Yemen is an even worse example. 

[Raze]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Obviously Iraq is a special case and a big US mistake.

But if the US did not invade Iraq, it would still be an underdeveloped hell-hole run by Saddam's psychopathic sons.

And Muslims like Bin Laden would still criticize it for not being Islamic enough.

Iraq wasn’t a hell hole, many actually traveled to it to study and it had a fairly low crime rate.

Iraq was also a bulwark against Islamist extremism and a Iranian and Saudi Cold War, all things we are now seeing the consequences of which can be laid at the feet of the US toppling him.

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

1) It is very good evidence. You should read the book.

2) There are dozens of interviews of such girls.

What more evidence do you need? Video tapes of the rapes? Don't be silly.

It’s not, anyone can fake or exaggerate a testimony. Whenever the US wants someone toppled the media is flooded with stories about how they are the devil incarnate.

Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and Doctors Without Borders investigated some claims made all over the media of Gadaffis military using systematic rape and said they didn’t find evidence 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Libyan_rape_allegations

And I don’t think they ever investigated claims Gadaffi personally raped thousands  

 

Edited Sunday at 09:53 PM by Raze

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Raze said:

And I don’t think they ever investigated claims Gadaffi personally raped thousands  

There's your answer.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Raze said:

Iraq was also a bulwark against Islamist extremism

Okay, but then you must admit that Islamic extremism is a rampant problem in the Middle East.

[Raze]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

There's your answer.

I wouldn’t be shocked if he and his army engaged in rape but when numbers in the thousands start getting thrown around when the US establishment has a clear motive in wanting his reputation hurt it is suspicious.

If a Palestinian journalist started reporting anonymous accounts of women claiming Netanyahu raped a hundred Palestinian women I wouldn’t believe it by default either. I didn’t post the IDF rape allegations in the thread until we started getting corroboration from mainstream outlets and a video. 

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Okay, but then you must admit that Islamic extremism is a rampant problem in the Middle East.

Yes, but it was in large part a reaction to western influence, Lawrence Wright wrote about this regarding Sayyid Qutub. Then the west made it even worse by funding the extremists themselves through wahabbists in Saudi Arabia and Mujahideen in Afghanistan.

It was beyond stupid and it’s insane they doubled down on it by doing it again in Syria.

They’ll probably try and do it again to with Iran.

Edited Sunday at 09:59 PM by Raze

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, Davino said:

@Leo Gura How the fuck do you know so much?

I just read 5 books on Middle East history and issues.

[PurpleTree]

must be fun to always have the west to blame

what about the treatment of women in many islamic countries? the west

what about honour killings and wiping out of kurds? the west

what about this?  the west

what about ukraine? the west

what about that? the west

[Karmadhi]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But Libyan's were sick of his rule. They wanted to do a revolution themsleves. You couldn't keep them supressed forever. At some point a revolution would need to happen.

You're assuming that a dictator can just peacefully stay in power forever. That's not how it works. The oppressed get restless.

No leader is universally loved by his people.

The whole reason Gaddafi lost power is because the West heavily funded and supported the anti government rebels.

Then they had themselves to intervene military to ensure the rebels succeeded.

If he was so hated the West would not have to do anything, he would be naturally overthrown.

I doubt a leader that gave his people free education, water ( in a dessert country), oil, health care, good salaries, security etc was so universally hated by his people.

Of course there are people that hate him by either being victim of his rule or having different ideologies.

Bottom line: If West had not been involved, Gaddafi, as bad as he was would have died in power and Libya would probably not be destroyed with tens of thousands dead on the process.

It is clear the better option here.

Edited Sunday at 10:05 PM by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

must be fun to always have the west to blame

 

The biggest issue people have with the west is their middling on others business  (coups, invasions, pushing their values to countries which are not ready for them etc) to advance their personal agenda while pretending to the world to be altruists who only care about good and truth.

I think most of the hate towards West comes from this.

[Raze]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I just read 5 books on Middle East history and issues.

This website has good book recommendations 

https://fivebooks.com/category/world/asia/middle-east/

I also recommend the great war for civilization by Robert Fisk

[Nivsch]

6 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

must be fun to always have the west to blame

what about the treatment of women in many islamic countries? the west

what about honour killings and wiping out of kurds? the west

what about this?  the west

what about ukraine? the west

what about that? the west

Sadly Israel too is often being filtered here through this limited paradigm without broader investigation of its utterly diverse voice and character and a very big chunk of liberal society.

Edited Sunday at 10:09 PM by Nivsch

[royce]

Just now, Nivsch said:

Sadly Israel too is often being filtered here through this limited paradigm without brader investigation of its utterly diverse voices and character and very vig chunk of liberal society.

oh

[PurpleTree]

10 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

The biggest issue people have with the west is their middling on others business 

russia, china, iran, india etc are also doing this

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

russia, china, iran, india etc are also doing this

how many countries overseas to it has China bombed in the last 100 years compared to the USA 

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, Raze said:

I wouldn’t be shocked if he and his army engaged in rape but when numbers in the thousands start getting thrown around when the US establishment has a clear motive in wanting his reputation hurt it is suspicious.

If a Palestinian journalist started reporting anonymous accounts of women claiming Netanyahu raped a hundred Palestinian women I wouldn’t believe it by default either. I didn’t post the IDF rape allegations in the thread until we started getting corroboration from mainstream outlets and a video. 

1) The book is not an annoymous account. And in Islam talking about rape is life-ending for women. Any woman who gets raped brings shame to her family and custom requires she be killed to restore family honor. So of course women are not going to come forward with their real names just to please your conspiracy minded self.

2) On an average day, Gadaffi had 30 teenage girls locked up in his basement. He would rape them for a few months or years, then discard them and replace with new ones. He did this every day for over 20 years. He did this until NATO finally bombed him out of his palace.

Edited Monday at 10:45 AM by Leo Gura