Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Davino]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Most people are not Bin Laden, who was happy living with 4 wives and 11 children in a cave, feeding them bread and water.

Just as much women as islamic law allows. Didn't know that about Bin Laden though

Quote

As per Islamic law, a Muslim man can marry up to four women at the same time, provided he can treat all of them equally and fulfill their rights and needs.

 

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Raze said:

But in *recent* history there is a clear line of foreign intervention destabilizing the region and hurting its development.

No one denies there was been some of that. But that is not the Middle East's chief problem. I am only speaking about the last 100 years here, not ancient history.

The Middle East is backwards as hell. Beyond anything the West did.

Edited Sunday at 09:19 PM by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Davino said:

Just as much women as islamic law allows. Didn't know that about Bin Laden though

He actually had 5 wives in all, I think, but a few divorced him.

Edited Sunday at 09:18 PM by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In the Middle East, without a strong and Western-like government you end up with endless petty tribal conflict and extreme religious fundamentalism which leads to extreme poverty and backwardness like in Yumen, Sudan, or Afghanistan.

 

I think it leads to dictators like Gadaffi or Saddam.

Since these countries have tribal conflicts, a strong dictator rises up internally and creates stability by force.

To be honest Libya or Syria were much better before the Arab Spring than now.

The West really messed up those countries by funding anti government rebels which lead to civil war and now chaos.

Same can be said for Iraq.

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The Middle East's lack of development is not the result of the West,

The West is deeply responsible for the issues in that region because of the criminal arbitrary way they carved up the borders of those countries, including Africa. Forcing different groups that hated each other into 1 country which has no feeling of state or nation.

Iraq is an example with 3 different groups that do not go well at all.

Most civil wars and conflicts in Middle East or Africa are internal conflicts which are often caused by groups of people forced to co live and hence you have wars.

Nigerian, Sudan, Congo conflicts are examples.

Or at best case you get a dictator like Saddam or Gadafi which unites them by force until West decides to overthrow them and make the country go total chaos.

So the West is greatly responsible for the mess there.

Being backwards is perfectly fine as long as things are peaceful and no wars there.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 09:21 PM by Karmadhi

[PurpleTree]

1 minute ago, Karmadhi said:

I think it leads to dictators like Gadaffi or Saddam.

Since these countries have tribal conflicts, a strong dictator rises up internally and creates stability by force.

To be honest Libya or Syria were much better before the Arab Spring than now.

The West really messed up those countries by funding anti government rebels which lead to civil war and now chaos.

Same can be said for Iraq.

The West is deeply responsible for the issues in that region because of the criminal arbitrary way they carved up the borders of those countries, including Africa. Forcing different groups that hated each other into 1 country which has no feeling of state or nation.

Iraq is an example with 3 different groups that do not go well at all.

Most civil wars and conflicts in Middle East or Africa are internal conflicts which are often caused by groups of people forced to co live and hence you have wars.

Nigerian, Sudan, Congo conflicts are examples.

Or at best case you get a dictator like Saddam or Gadafi which unites them by force until West decides to overthrow them and make the country go total chaos.

So the West is greatly responsible for the mess there.

 

i think about 250´000 people "disappeared" under saddam. Mostly kurds and such

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, royce said:

but you can create many more Bin Ladens if you treat people poorly.

I said that myself earlier. But the West interfered in many parts of the world and they ain't doing terrorism.

You don't see South Korea or Philippines doing terrorism.

[Raze]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No one denies there was been some of that. But that is not the Middle East's chief problem. I am only speaking about the last 100 years here, not ancient history.

The Middle East is backwards as hell. Beyond anything the West did.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, and Palestine were all way better places to live before they had their major foreign interventions. I find that more convincing then that all their societies just collectively decided to stop developing. It’s hard to develop when you are being bombed and sanctioned for, literally, decades.

Edited Sunday at 09:25 PM by Raze

[Raze]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I said that myself earlier. But the West interfered in many parts of the world and they ain't doing terrorism.

You don't see South Korea or Philippines doing terrorism.

The Vietnamese did things that would make Al Queda blush. 

The biggest of these happened during the Korean War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_South_Korea

If this was happening today everyone would be saying Asians were inherently violent terrorists and ideological possessed against the west and we just need to bomb them more. 

Edited Sunday at 09:28 PM by Raze

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I said that myself earlier. But the West interfered in many parts of the world and they ain't doing terrorism.

You don't see South Korea or Philippines doing terrorism.

yes muslims in philippines did terrorism

the abu sayaf

[Karmadhi]

3 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

i think about 250´000 people "disappeared" under saddam. Mostly kurds and such

And 1 million were killed by the mess USA created with their invasion of Iraq.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

I think it leads to dictators like Gadaffi or Saddam.

Since these countries have tribal conflicts, a strong dictator rises up internally and creates stability by force.

To be honest Libya or Syria were much better before the Arab Spring than now.

Now here's the funny part:

Bin Laden hated Saddam, considered him a secular American stooge, and wanted to otherthrow him and replace him with a proper fundamentalist Taliban-style Islamic state. That's what ISIS was.

And as for Gadaffi, he personally raped over 1000 teenage girls, who he held in his sex basement as slaves for years.

There's no winning in the Middle East. You only got bad options.

Edited Sunday at 09:28 PM by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Bin Laden hated Saddam, considered him a secular American stooge, and wanted to otherthrow him and replace him with a proper fundamentalist Taliban-style Islamic state. That's what ISIS was.

Interesting, I did not know that.

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And as for Gadaffi, he personally raped over 1000 girls, who he held in his sex basement as slaves for years.

Of course he was not an angel but much better than civil war and anarchy.

The war in Libya alone killed tens of thousands and god knows how many have been killed overall in the resulting internal conflicts plus basically destroying a country who had pretty decent standard of living for its citizens. Free energy, fuel, education, health care, decent wages etc.

It is very clear which the lesser evil is here.

And if Libya had been carved up properly by France/UK instead of forcing tribes that hated each other into 1 country, maybe you would not have needed a Gaddafi in the first place...

Edited Sunday at 09:30 PM by Karmadhi

[Davino]

@Leo Gura How the fuck do you know so much?

[royce]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I said that myself earlier. But the West interfered in many parts of the world and they ain't doing terrorism.

You don't see South Korea or Philippines doing terrorism.

Because of the idology of islam , dont Allows that

and they trying to change that ,  the Arab govements And the west and that's make people stick to Islam more and more

and maybe they will change it , who knows 

 

https://x.com/MuslimSkepticHQ/status/1730118584679170227

Edited Sunday at 09:33 PM by royce

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Now here's the funny part:

Bin Laden hated Saddam, considered him a secular American stooge, and wanted to otherthrow him and replace him with a proper fundamentalist Taliban-style Islamic state. That's what ISIS was.

And as for Gadaffi, he personally raped over 1000 girls, who he held in his sex basement as slaves for years.

There's no winning in the Middle East. You only got bad options.

There actually isn’t solid evidence Gadaffi did such mass rapes.

The US toppled Saddam it allowed Al Queda to take root there and lead to foreign fighters flooding into it and civil wars that killed hundreds of thousands. I don’t see how you can say their biggest issue wasn’t foreign intervention when it does that. 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Raze said:

The Vietnamese did things that would make Al Queda blush. 

most of these happened during the Korean War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_South_Korea

If this was happening today everyone would be saying Asians were inherently violent terrorists and ideological possessed against the west and we just need to bomb them more. 

I agree that if the US entirely pulled out of the Middle East and Israel didn't exist, there would be very little terrorism in the Middle East. But the Middle East would then be even more backwards, poor, and warring against each other.

[Leo Gura]

Just now, Raze said:

There actually isn’t solid evidence Gadaffi did such mass rapes.

Oh yes there is. I just finished reading the biography of a 13 year old girl who Gadaffi raped and imprisoned in his basement for 7 years. She describes all 7 years in vivid detail, and hundreds of other girls who he raped just like her.

Gadaffi was an absolute monster.

I will add the book to my book list soon and you can read it yourself.

[Heaven]

@Raze Victim mentality won’t take you too far, look at Syria, Yemen etc..

It’s one of Leo’s first vids. Go watch it(It’s a life changing series).

No nation is flawless and there is definitely plenty place for improvement but to say that it’s all US fault when you can’t blame Israel now it’s a joke. 

[Raze]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I agree that if the US entirely pulled out of the Middle East and Israel didn't exist, there would be very little terrorism in the Middle East. But the Middle East would then be even more backwards, poor, and warring against each other.

Most of these modern conflicts were the result of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the west drawing lines throughout the Middle East.

They had wars before, but they were smaller and less frequent.

Western countries not intervening doesn’t mean they can’t engage in trade and commerce which assists development. 

[Raze]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Oh yes there is. I just finished reading the biography of a 13 year old girl who Gadaffi raped and imprisoned in his basement for 7 years. She describes all 7 years in vivid detail, and hundreds of other girls who he raped just like her.

Gadaffi was an absolute monster.

I will add the book to my book list soon and you can read it yourself.

That isn’t evidence, it was one journalists interview with a anonymous girl claiming it. I read summaries of the book.

I’m not denying he’s a monster, but some claims of his army weaponizing rape were dismissed for lack of evidence by various human rights groups.

Edited Sunday at 09:38 PM by Raze