Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, royce said:

which country in the middle east Applies the Sharia ? bro stop fooling the people here 

Most of them fawn over Sharia law.

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

It won't work to accept them. They will not be part of an Israeli state when they believe that Israel should not exist. They will just do endless terrorism from the inside.

That didn’t happen when America ended slavery, South Africa ended apartheid or the UK let the Irish split.

As Nivisch said Palestinians in Israel live their peacefully.

Palestinains will fight much less if they had equal rights. If you were born in a blockaded Gaza or were born in the West Bank surrounded by soliders and harassed by settlers where you have 0 influence in the government that rules you, you’d hate them too. But if you had equal access to voting, public infrastructure, and civil courts, you would now have a lot to lose and a lot less reason to fight.

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Most of them fawn over Sharia law.

Sharia law is a broad concept that can be twisted to mean many things. Not every middle eastern country behaves like the taliban. You people act like everyone who isn’t Muslim who goes to the Middle East gets shot on sight. Many Jews lived peacefully in middle eastern countries for centuries prior to Zionism at a time when they were even less secular.

[Nivsch]

1 minute ago, Raze said:

As Nivisch said Palestinians in Israel live their peacefully.

Those Palestinians are ones who know Israelis from inside and aren't undergo a toxic fallacious education about them.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Raze said:

That didn’t happen when America ended slavery, South Africa ended apartheid or the UK let the Irish split.

Not the same. Different ideology. These Islamists are too proud and too eager to martyr themselves.

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As Nivisch said Palestinians in Israel live their peacefully.

Those are the ones who self-selected to be okay with Israel existing. The ones outside self-selected otherwise. Those outsiders are a different beast who refuse to be tamed.

You can tame a horse but not a rhinocerous.

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Palestinains will fight much less if they had equal rights. If you were born in a blockaded Gaza or were born in the West Bank surrounded by soliders and harassed by settlers 

But you would still need to heavy blockade and police them because they will be blowing you up every week from the inside.

The harassment and hatred will not just melt away.

Edited September 22 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

So, is Israel actually going to take over all of Gaza and the entire West Bank and then do their own kind of nation building in those areas?

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Nivsch said:

Those Palestinians are ones who know Israelis from inside and aren't undergo a toxic fallacious education about them.

This study found that Palestinian education wasn’t that anti semitic 

https://archive.is/8fuQa

Also the former head of Shin Bet Ami Ayalon said in his experience when it looked like a two state solution might happen he experienced far less security threats. 

[Nivsch]

4 minutes ago, Raze said:

This study found that Palestinian education wasn’t that anti semitic 

https://archive.is/8fuQa

Also the former head of Shin Bet Ami Ayalon said in his experience when it looked like a two state solution might happen he experienced far less security threats. 

I saw many videos about what Palestinians children "learn" about the Jews. Crazy unearthy things.

Only two state solution will save us all.

Edited September 22 by Nivsch

[Raze]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not the same. Different ideology. These Islamists are too proud and too eager to martyr themselves.

Except it’s not an ideological issue. The original Palestinian population was actually one of the more secular in the Middle East, they attacked Israelis still.

For decades the main perpetrator of anti Israeli violence was the PLO which was a secular nationalist organization, not a religious one.

Exit Polls of Palestinian voters who voted Hamas into power actually found most were voting against the PLO for corruption and most still supported the two states solution.

Of course their is hatred, but it’s because of what they continue to go through, not an in built ideology. Hamas recruits from orphans of IDF attacks.

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But you would still need to heavy blockade and police them because they will be blowing you up every week from the inside.

 

The harassment and hatred will not just melt away.

No you don’t, you can deal with criminals without carpet bombings so massive the majority of children have PTSD and blockades so strict 40% of the population is unemploted and 90% of their water is contaminated, all of which were documented by human rights groups.

If that way was the real path to safety there would not have been a October 7th. As things get worse for Palestinians, their violence increases. It stands to reason if things get better, they can reduce.

Edited September 22 by Raze

[Raze]

8 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I saw many videos about what Palestinians children "learn" about the Jews. Crazy unearthy things.

Only two state solution will save us all.

For one the Knesset just voted overwhelmingly against it 

Here is a article from a Jewish American political scientist who was a former Zionism advocate on why he thinks it won’t work 

https://archive.is/EUzxL

I’m not against it if it’s the only possible solution. 

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Raze said:

Except it’s not an ideological issue.

It definitely is an ideological issue.

Remember, it only takes a handful of radicalized people to create serious problems. It doesn't matter that 70% of people are peaceful.

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The original Palestinian population was actually one of the more secular in the Middle East, they attacked Israelis because they were being expelled.

That time is long gone. They will hate Israelis for at least 50 years now.

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For decades the main perpetrator of anti Israeli violence was the PLO which was a secular nationalist organization, not a religious one.

And it failed to deliver a solution, leading to the current situation.

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Of course their is hatred, but it’s because of what they continue to go through, not an in built ideology.

This is a common misconception about terrorism.

Most terrorists are well educated. The average Arab terrorist has higher college education than the average American.

Islamist terrorists are better educated than the average MAGA supporter. So it is about ideology,  but not just Islam but also nationalism.

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Hamas recruits from orphans of IDF attacks.

Then they have an endless line of new recruits stretching around the block.

Edited September 22 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

4 minutes ago, Raze said:

For one the Knesset just voted overwhelmingly against it 

Here is a article from a Jewish American political scientist who was a former Zionism advocate on why he thinks it won’t work 

https://archive.is/EUzxL

I’m not against it if it’s the only possible solution. 

Left and center parties were for 2states before oct7.

Even Bennet said in one interview that his party is the only one who is against palestinian state.

Like the dominant opinion was for 2states.

Edited September 22 by Nivsch

[royce]

This is Maybe from outside they applying Sharia, but in reality, this is just a tactic to keep the public content. They may apply Sharia to minor matters, like marriage and family issues, but when it comes to major, critical issues, Sharia is nowhere to be found. Under true Sharia law, you can't have kings or presidents, banks operating on interest, or foreign military bases in Muslim lands. And certainly, under Sharia, you wouldn’t stand by while Israel kills Muslims, watching it happen on Al Jazeera. Those who truly advocate for Sharia in these countries often find themselves in prison.

 

All of these Arab countries are weak and heavily dependent on the United States. For instance, the entire Arabian Gulf is home to American military bases, and even countries like Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Iraq have American bases as well. The main role of the rulers in these nations is simply to maintain internal stability and keep things calm—nothing beyond that.

Edited September 22 by royce

[Nivsch]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They will hate Israelis for at least 50 years now.

To establish a normal government and make a 2 state deal and thats it. Nothing else will be good.

Edited September 22 by Nivsch

[Raze]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It definitely is an ideological issue.

Apartheid, blockade, and bombings create violence and rebellion everywhere else they were done, I don’t see why we can’t presume it contributes here.

George Habbash was responsible for a large amount of anti Israeli terrorism, and he was Christian.
 

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Remember, it only takes a handful of radicalized people to create serious problems. It doesn't matter than 60% of people are peaceful.

So they must stop giving the population a reason to support radicals who do things like Oct 7 

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And it failed to deliver a solution, leading to the current situation.

My point was, they weren’t motivated by Islamist ideology, yet they still attacked Israelis, so why presume islamists only attacked Israelis because of their Islamist beliefs, when even the anti Islamists are doing it.

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is a common misconception about terrorism.

Most terrorists are well educated. The average Arab terrorist has higher college education than the average American.

Islamist terrorists are better educated than the average MAGA supporter. But it is about ideology, and not just Islam but also nationalism.

Then they have an endless line of new recruits stretching around the block.

That may be true for the top brass. But they can’t sustain themselves without a popular support.

The public only supports them if they feel the alternatives don’t work. If Israel doesn’t give them freedom when they do anything else, naturally they turn to radicals.

How is the solution to keep doing what gives them recruits rather than start doing what removes them

Edited September 22 by Raze

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, royce said:

They may apply Sharia to minor matters, like marriage and family issues, but when it comes to major, critical issues, Sharia is nowhere to be found. Under true Sharia law, you can't have kings or presidents, banks operating on interest, or foreign military bases in Muslim lands. And certainly, under Sharia, you wouldn’t stand by while Israel kills Muslims, watching it happen on Al Jazeera.

This is like what Bin Laden said.

Look, no ideology can ever be applied 100% faithfully, because ideology is always a cartoonish view of the world.

Of course top-level national policy will be about raw power and money, not Sharia faithfulness. But to say the Middle East is not run on Sharia is silly.

Of course Middle East governments are westernizing and secularizing too. But that process is far from total.

Edited September 22 by Leo Gura

[royce]

3 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

To establish a normal government and make a 2 state deal and thats it. Nothing else will be good.

this is impossible before 7 October and after it 

[Nivsch]

4 minutes ago, Raze said:

Apartheid, blockade, and bombings create violence and rebellion everywhere else they were done

Worsen them yes, but they aren't the root cause.

[Raze]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But to say the Middle East is not run on Sharia is silly.

It’s like saying western governments are run by Christianity and the age of enlightenment 

There is a lot of influence yes, but they have a lot of variance, evolution, etc.

[Nivsch]

8 minutes ago, royce said:

this is impossible before 7 October and after it 

The alternative is for Israel to split to Liberal Israel vs Judea and there is a movement inside Israel that supports that.