Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Raze]

 

 

 

Edited September 20 by Raze

[Nivsch]

Edited September 20 by Nivsch

[Atb210201]

This topic needs to watch or rewatch Attack On Titan to understand war and how each side sees the other as devils and both sides have rights and are ignorant of the other side's miseries and oppression and right to self defense

It's very nuanced and complicated situation in war we get lost why it all even started and why it can't end and why do so many people have to suffer in this process and why can't we live in peace

It is so complicated yet so simple everyone knows they want to stop the war but both sides are afraid of each other and is worried if I back down now the other side will attack me and they might

So there is no clear answer anywhere It's sometimes just hopeless from my perspective unless individuals take responsibility and sacrifice themselves and their and their people's agendas for the sake of peace which is easy to say and very hard to do in reality especially when a lot of people and close people to you whom you care about expect you to be on their side and not feel for their enemies

Edited September 20 by Atb210201

[Vercingetorix]

@LSD-Rumi it's laughable how red stage murderers propaganda succeed in making green stage thinkers like yourself support their cause. Do you know how they treat women? Do you know how they treat gays? Animals? Do you know how they treat even other Muslims who are not from their faction?

Are you aware that they see you as their enemy? That there are terror attacks by Muslims all over the world? That Israel represent your values?

Are you aware that this is a civilization / ideology war and you are supporting stage red murderers that surround themselves with children to protect themselves? 

 

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, Vercingetorix said:

@LSD-Rumi it's laughable how red stage murderers propaganda succeed in making green stage thinkers like yourself support their cause. Do you know how they treat women? Do you know how they treat gays? Animals? Do you know how they treat even other Muslims who are not from their faction?

Are you aware that they see you as their enemy? That there are terror attacks by Muslims all over the world? That Israel represent your values?

Are you aware that this is a civilization / ideology war and you are supporting stage red murderers that surround themselves with children to protect themselves? 

 

I don't think these are effective talking points, as you don't need to have similar values to have compassion for others and the value of life.

That said, these green thinkers have overcorrected on much of this and run with the West is bad, America is bad, Israel is bad blanket mentality and don't hold the other side accountable for anything. 

[LSD-Rumi]

1 hour ago, Vercingetorix said:

@LSD-Rumi it's laughable how red stage murderers propaganda succeed in making green stage thinkers like yourself support their cause. Do you know how they treat women? Do you know how they treat gays? Animals? Do you know how they treat even other Muslims who are not from their faction?

Are you aware that they see you as their enemy? That there are terror attacks by Muslims all over the world? That Israel represent your values?

Are you aware that this is a civilization / ideology war and you are supporting stage red murderers that surround themselves with children to protect themselves? 

 

Criticizing Israel is not supporting Hammas. Is not that obvious?

[LSD-Rumi]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If Bin Laden staged this pager attack against members of the Israeli government you would be crying TERRORISM!

A legitimate government is not supposed to use such underhanded and imprecise attacks.

It is about the purpose before the methods. Bin Laden's purpose was pure terrorism (despite whatever false notions he used to propose). Israel's purpose is self defense. You cannot let a milita group launch missiles on your head day and night and not retaliate.

It is important not to overdemonize the west with arguments like the ones you proposed. Bin Laden would have made every pager in Israel explode regardless of the carrier. We are talking about the man that let two air planes crash into buildings full of civilians.

The operation done by Israel was neat and it is just the beginning. I think Israel will take more aggressive acts against them in the near future.

Btw, the civillian causalities was low compared to the number of targets hit  and incapacitated and the destruction of the communication network used by Hezbullah.

 

 

 

Edited September 20 by LSD-Rumi

[Raze]

 

[Vercingetorix]

9 hours ago, Raze said:

That is all injuries, not all severe injuries. They said only 500 were critical. Those aren’t all soldiers and Hezbollah can just recruit more, they already said they rejected thousands of applications because they couldn’t support any more. Hezbollah lost far more after the 2006 war and Syrian war but just expanded.

The only way to take out a guerrilla force is to either remove their motivation for fighting or kill them faster than they can recruit 

I saw a claim on a quite reputable source IMO (גיא בכור) that claims:

An internal Hezbollah document, allegedly prepared by the head of military intelligence, reveals:

879 militants were eliminated in the operation using pagers and explosive devices, including 131 Iranians, 79 Yemenis, and among them, 291 senior officials. 602 were critically injured, meaning the number of those killed will reach at least 1,000. 509 were blinded, and another 1,735 were injured in their reproductive organs, 905 of them irreversibly (which means fewer Hezbollah members in the future).

[Vercingetorix]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Criticizing Israel is not supporting Hammas. Is not that obvious?

You are right. 

[Vercingetorix]

2 hours ago, hundreth said:

I don't think these are effective talking points, as you don't need to have similar values to have compassion for others and the value of life.

That said, these green thinkers have overcorrected on much of this and run with the West is bad, America is bad, Israel is bad blanket mentality and don't hold the other side accountable for anything. 

Yeah I spoke out of anger, it's never really effective.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

It is about the purpose before the methods. Bin Laden's purpose was pure terrorism (despite whatever false notions he used to propose). Israel's purpose is self defense.

This is biased nonsense.

Bin Laden's purpose was equally self-defense.

The only reason Bin Laden became a terrorist was thanks to Israel oppressing Palestine.

Irsael created Bin Laden. And Israel continues to create more Bin Ladens every year.

Bin Laden was defending Palestine. Something like half of all terrorist attacks over the last 70 years are the result of Arabs trying to defend Palestine.

Edited September 20 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Vercingetorix said:

That there are terror attacks by Muslims all over the world?

That is principally because they want Israel to stop oppressing Palestine.

Terrorism doesn't happen out of the blue, it is a tool against political oppression. Israel also uses terrorism as a tool, as this pager attack was. Israel will use any tool and so do the Arabs.

The way that Zionists in this thread justify the pager attack as necessary and "genius" and self-defense, is exactly how Arabs justify their terrorism.

Edited September 20 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

@Leo Gura ISIS mass murdering in mosoul, ISIS desire to go back to the 7th century, their attacks on Europe, 11.9 attack, terrorism in Iraq, ISIS terrorism in Sinai, the arab spring in Egypt, Assad mass murdering in Syria, Iran regime ideology, Iran terrorism in Yemen are all in order to free the palestinian land? I dont understand this logic..

Edited September 20 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Leo Gura ISIS mass murdering in mosoul, ISIS desire to go back to the 7th century, their attacks on Europe, 11.9 attack, terrorism in Iraq, ISIS terrorism in Sinai, the arab spring in Egypt, Assad mass murdering in Syria, Iran regime ideology, Iran terrorism in Yemen are all in order to free the palestinian land? I dont understand this logic.

ISIS was just a response to the US invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.

You should actually read why Arabs are fighting you, from their own mouths vs from Western media.

Yes! Absolutely 9/11 and Yemen attacks were to free Palestinian land.

Arab Spring was a grassroot Arab movement for more democratic local governance. Not much related to terrorism.

Arabs want sovereingty over their historic and religious lands. That's all this is about. That's all Bin Laden wanted. The entire history of Islam is about building and unifying the entire Middle East under one religious order that follows Sharia Law.

The reason why Arabs hate America is because America and West interfere in their internal politics to install secular autocratic leadership. They don't want secular West rule, they want Sharia Law.

Edited September 20 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

ISIS was just a response to the US invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.

You should actually read why Arabs are fighting you, from their own mouths vs from Western media.

Yes! Absolutely 9/11 and Yemen attacks were to free Palestinian land.

Arab Spring was a grassroot Arab movement for more democratic local governance. Not much related to terrorism.

The fact that Israel existance (less the occupation of 1967 to my opinion) fuels the terror motivation does not mean Israel is doing something wrong or bad, but just that the Israeli worldview is conflicted with the muslim fundamentalists one.

While it is true that Israel does wrong things for sure, but this isn't the real main source of the terror motivation.

Edited September 20 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

The fact that Israel existance fuels the terror motivation does not mean Israel is doing something wrong or bad,

According to who? You?

Why should your view be the right one?

[Contrast]

@Nivsch Arabs consider Israel to be a colonialist invasion of Palestinian land. so they consider Israel's fundemental exsistance bad and wrong.

[Raze]

6 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

The fact that Israel existance (less the occupation of 1967 to my opinion) fuels the terror motivation does not mean Israel is doing something wrong or bad, but just that the Israeli worldview is conflicted with the muslim fundamentalists one.

But we can track that the extremism spawns from Israeli force

ex.

first intifada -> Hamas

Siege of Beirut / Sabra and Shatila -> hezbollah

Gaza 2008/2014 / great march of return -> Oct 7

Edited September 20 by Raze

[Nivsch]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

According to who? You?

Why should your view be the right one?

I am not saying it is the right or the only right one.

I am just saying I think a nation who lived in a given area for a millenia in the past has the right to return to this area especially after the worst possible lesson they have learnt at the end of the era during which they have lived distributed abroad.

Edited September 20 by Nivsch