Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Inliytened1]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

You can have a huge paradigm shift when you realize, "Wait a minute, what if America and Israel are the evil ones?"

Until you start to think like that you aren't doing serious politics, you're just jerking off to your own reflection in the mirror.

Agreed but you'll still come full circle back to who is good.  For example, I hope now you at least realize and recognize that Hitler was the devil.  You did for Bin Laden.

Edited September 20 by Inliytened1

[Leo Gura]

44 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I hope now you at least realize and recognize that Hitler was the devil.  You did for Bin Laden.

I recognize relativity, not self-biased human demonizations.

Bin Laden was doing for his people what Israelis do for theirs.

And the whole reason Bin Laden attacked America was because of how biased America is on the Palestine issue.

What I'm tired of is this childish BS Western grand narrative that Arab terrorism springs up out of thin air. Western powers refuse to take any responsibility for their own devilry and this makes the West sick. The West is wealthy and developed enough to set a better example. Instead they stoop to barbarism and lies.

Edited September 20 by Leo Gura

[Inliytened1]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I recognize relativity, not self-biased human demonizations.

Bin Laden was doing for his people what Israelis do for theirs.

And the whole reason Bin Laden attacked America was because of how biased America is on the Palestine issue.

What I'm tired of is this childish BS Western grand narrative that Arab terrorism springs up out of thin air. Western powers refuse to take any responsibility for their own devilry and this makes the West sick. The West is wealthy and developed enough to set a better example.

I think you used Hitler in your spirituality videos to talk about Absolute and Relative.  But you really should look at him in a relative sense too and analyze him within the relative times he was in.  It's only fair especially to the Jews who love you as a philospher but despise you for this neglection. 

And sure there is Western devilry.  But honestly when it comes to Israel they are just sick of being persecuted.   It's only a matter of time before they try to establish dominance in the region.  And that's only because of that.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I think you used Hitler in your spirituality videos to talk about Absolute and Relative.  But you really should look at him in a relative sense too and analyze him within the relative times he was in.

I have no problem seeing the stupidity that is Nazism. That's so obvious it hardly warrants my time.

I focus my time on those aspects of reality which are poorly understood or denied.

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

And sure there is Western devilry.  But honestly when it comes to Israel they are just sick of being persecuted.   It's only a matter of time before they try to establish dominance in the region.  And that's only because of that.

Arabs have been mistreated by the West in many ways.

[Inliytened1]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I have no problem seeing the stupidity that is Nazism. That's so obvious it hardly warrants my time.

I focus my time on those aspects of reality which are poorly understood or denied.

Arabs have been mistreated by the West in many ways.

I think it does warrant your time to at least acknowledge from a relative sense that he was a bad guy.  Anyway yes they have.  But also the West has been mistreated by the Arabs so you can't say it's one sided.  

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

I think it does warrant your time to at least acknowledge from a relative sense that he was a bad guy.

Sure, Hitler was a monster. So let's not repeat his mistakes.

Edited September 20 by Leo Gura

[Raze]

7 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@Raze This is more accurate and surgical than anything you will ever see or maybe even ever seen in any war.

But of course, nothing is surgical enough when you hate the attacker.

Put that aside, this very possibly could cause a full scale war, which even if Israel wins means many Israelis being killed or injured. Why do that when Israel could just accept the Gaza ceasefire, as both the houthis and hezbollah said they’ll stop firing if that happens. Clearly everyone would better off than trading bombs and missiles, surgical or not.

Also I haven’t seen solid proof it is as surgical as people are claiming. For one hezbollah isn’t just a military, it is a political party and has many other aspects of infrastructure, many of the pagers could be held by non combatants, also there were reports of cars and solar panels blowing up as well. 

Edited September 20 by Raze

[Raze]

4 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

This has released hell.  Eventually a terrorist group will randomly distribute 1000 cellphones in the US and simultaneously explode them.  Keep in mind that the US thought it was the only one that would have a nuclear bomb.  It doesn't work that way.

I think everyone is going to search every device with extreme paranoia now, so probably won’t happen, at least until someone figures out how to make tech blow up without any visibly detectable explosives that can’t be searched for easily. 

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Sure, Hitler was monster. So let's not repeat his mistakes.

About time!

[Raze]

4 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

This was Israel thinking like a terrorist to kill a terrorist.  It's genius.  Don't listen to the naysayers.  While it's not a good look on the outside  - it's brilliant. And they don't care what anyone else thinks of them...

This isn’t new, if anything they introduced these tactics to the region. 
 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence#Irgun,_Haganah_and_Lehi_attackshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence#Irgun,_Haganah_and_Lehi_attacks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_assassinations

Edited September 20 by Raze

[Inliytened1]

@Raze one mans opinion. Listen carefully..  the net result ..he says..to my mind...meaning from his POV.

 

Edited September 20 by Inliytened1

[Raze]

6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Raze one mans opinion. Listen carefully..  the net result ..he says..to my mind...meaning from his POV.

 

Yes but then I linked 20-100+ different historical examples…

 

[Inliytened1]

34 minutes ago, Raze said:

Yes but then I linked 20-100+ different historical examples…

 

And I'm sure if I looked i can find a dozen anti-zionists killing zionists over the last hundred years.  Even if I couldn't I'd bet you a hundred dollars it still happened. 

Edited September 20 by Inliytened1

[Fountainbleu]

What's the latest on this? Can someone please give a tldr 

[Nivsch]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can't explode a thousand devices across a country and not kill civilians.

Watch this:

 

Ok but any other tactic to chase Hezbollah would automatically be MUCH LESS surgical (you know, the classic way from the air etc) then isn't there something unjust to immediately blame Israel on the current one?

And by the way the amount of explosive matter is pretty tiny and the proof is that most or a very big % of Hezbollah memeber the devices were in their hands were wounded and not killed. So the risk to the surroindings is the tiniest possible in relation to any other option.

Anyway if we want objective comparison then lets see how much civilian casualities will be here.

Edited September 20 by Nivsch

[Raze]

 

Former Israeli negotiator discusses the aftermath of the attack 

Edited September 20 by Raze

[Nivsch]

5 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Where was the sympathy Oct. 7th?  I didn't see any.  Maybe I missed it though 😀  All i saw on this forum was hatred for Israel's retaliation.  

And no not pawns.  Pawns are used in Chess as an attack method, in some cases even to gain a Queen.  And certainly innocents aren't part of the game.  But unfortunately it happens.  But it happens on both sides.    

The attitude of just let be like them and make them drag us to their own level is a stupid attitude. So this claims are pointless. We want to be way moral than them always.

[Nivsch]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If Bin Laden staged this pager attack against members of the Israeli government you would be crying TERRORISM!

There is something to it. Right.

In the other hand who can promise us a technological protection again mass invasion? 

If there is something oct7 taught us is that technology alone is unreliable.

Hezbollah unlike Israeli seniors has no problem to kill thousands of innocent civilians in the other side intentionally for its own sake, unless it is significantly dettered and knows there are prices to its actions.

Hezbollah forces are way more experienced, professional and numerous than hamas. All the technology in the world US can provide us might not be enough. You cannot take more chances after what happened.

Edited September 20 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

32 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

In the other hand who can promise us a technological protection again mass invasion? 

If there is something oct7 taught us is that technology alone is unreliable.

You have a huge army. No one is going to invade you if you just defend properly.

The IDF defenses around Gaza were pathetic. Rather than lashing out, just build up proper defenses at the border. You'll need it anyway given all this terrorism you partake in. You will have Arabs wanting to kill you for the next 50 years now. So build those defenses.

The problem is that you guys are dragging yourselves deeper and deeper into this downward spiral of violence which has no end and no one will win. You've got your fingers in a Chinese finger trap and you keep pulling harder and harder.

Edited September 20 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You have a huge army. No one is going to invade you if you just defend properly.

The IDF defenses around Gaza were pathetic. Rather than lashing out, just build up proper defenses at the border. You'll need it anyway given all this terrorism you partake in. You will have Arabs wanting to kill you for the next 50 years now. So build those defenses.

The problem is that you guys are dragging yourselves deeper and deeper into this downward spiral of violence which has no end and no one will win. You've got your fingers in a Chinese finger trap and you keep pulling harder and harder.

I can agree to some of that.

I think the bippers and pagers attack can be fruitfull IF will be utilized now to critically damage Hezbollah capabilities in further attacks when they are in chaos. But just this attack by its own - not necessarily smart.

There are claims say that Israel wanted to to this attack in another time (out of a more strategical thinking i assume) but been exposed so had to use it now.

Anyway I have no big expectation from this mentally disabled government and maybe there are smarter ways to deal with Hezbollah. The west is indeed evil in many areas like part of western medicine and the attitude towards long term health and really many things. It is still mostly orange after all.

I am not sure though the last attack is the best example for that because it has a role in a more complex context of survival concerns we might not know it fully. Days will reveal us the answers.

Edited September 20 by Nivsch