Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Heaven]

9 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

To show that Israeli claims to that land are not based on truth 

They could have made a Jewish state somewhere else where they would not get this backlash.

There were countless proposed places to build a Jewish state, and they chose the worst one.

That is the root cause of all this bullshit.

Grow up bro. Israel is there for 80 years and not gonna move. You can relocate your family to Gaza if you want. They need help there

[Karmadhi]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I am not claiming that Hamas should not fight Israel. But Hamas does use terrorist tactics.

You can say the same about Israel having the right to defend itself but using terrorist tactics too.

I see a lot more agreement that Hamas are terrorists than Israelis are even though they have broken every war law that exists out there at this point.

4 hours ago, hundreth said:

Which claim isn't based on truth?

 

That those people that were put on Palestine were the descenders of the Jews from 3000 years ago. I am sure during the last 3000 years they mixed so much with Europeans that they stopped having any sort of resemblence to the original historical Jews and therefore are not entitled to that land at all.

The whole idea that you are entitled to some land because people with your religion came from there is absurd to begin with.

They can say "We need land so we will take it, better us than you have it". That would be honest.

4 hours ago, hundreth said:

How much DNA should an exiled people have to their homeland for it to be truth that it is their homeland? 

 

Is there any proof that Israelis these days, most of them have much ancestry to those people from back then?

What if Palestinian Arabs are the real and  in time they converted to Islam? 

That would make more sense to me to be honest.

4 hours ago, hundreth said:

And who is to say a different location wouldn't have had it's own set of issues? You could have been talking about a Ugandan Israeli genocide right now, so I never understood this line of argument.

Ideally it should have been established in a sparsely populated area so large groups of people would not need to be kicked out or forced to live under another's rule. Also somewhere with a less strong sense of nationalism/religion.

Middle East is quite uncompromising when it comes to this stuff I feel.

 

 

 

[Karmadhi]

3 minutes ago, Heaven said:

You can relocate your family to Gaza if you want. They need help there

Israel will not let me go there as a normal citizen and if I go with some aid group, they will murder me if I try to help them like they murdered Kitchen food  staff

 

[Karmadhi]

4 minutes ago, Heaven said:

Grow up bro. Israel is there for 80 years and not gonna move

Neither will Palestinian stubbornness and unwillingness to be dominated by Israel.

They would rather die than surrender.

Either give them a state or live in fear forever.

Your choice.

[royce]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Ha.

Quote

Hamas, which stands for "Islamic Resistance Movement" in Arabic, has certain codes of conduct they follow; while they may target what they consider "infidels," there are specific actions they refrain from because they believe these actions are forbidden. Geographically, Hamas operates in a highly constrained environment—essentially surrounded. They are located in Gaza, which is often likened to being imprisoned, with Israel on one side, Egypt on another, and the sea limiting their movement. Both the Egyptian regime and Israel are opposed to them, making their situation even more challenging.

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

although of course they do

They don’t need money when they’re living in tunnels for their entire lives.

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

No war can be won without moucho $$$$$.

In the Islamic world, Hamas has significant support and doesn’t need to struggle to obtain funds. What they primarily need is a way to secure weapons and money for their operations in the region.

Edited September 2 by royce

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

You can say the same about Israel having the right to defend itself but using terrorist tactics too.

It's not the same. Israel does some war crimes and sloppy bombing, but that s not the same as terrorism, taking hostages, shooting indiscriminate rockets at cities, etc.

It is not necessary to make this conflation for you to advocate for Palestinian rights. It doesn't help your cause to exaggerate.

Edited September 2 by Leo Gura

[Davino]

On 1/9/2024 at 8:54 PM, Leo Gura said:

What percentage of DNA do modern Jews have with Biblical Jews?

Honest question. I don't know.

Did you ask AI?

Chatgpt gave me an unexpected answer 

[Davino]

Btw, what were the consequences of the strike?

I was quite surprised by the movement and the speeches delivered. Has there been any update on that?

[Raze]

35 minutes ago, Heaven said:

They can continue to fight and resist but don’t expect Israel to behave differently..

So Israel will behave differently if Hamas does? 2018 says otherwise. 

[Raze]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not the same. Israel does some war crimes and sloppy bombing, but that s not the same as terrorism, taking hostages, shooting indiscriminate rockets at cities, etc.

It is not necessary to make this conflation for you to advocate for Palestinian rights. It doesn't help your cause to exaggerate.

Israel itself admitted to collecting prisoners without charges as bargaining chips and targeting civilian infrastructure such as the dahiya doctrine 

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Israel does some war crimes and sloppy bombing

 

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240507-unlike-anything-we-have-studied-gaza-s-destruction-in-numbers

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/immense-scale-gaza-killings-amount-crime-against-humanity-un-inquiry-says-2024-06-12/

https://apnews.com/article/biden-israel-hamas-oct-7-44c4229d4c1270d9cfa484b664a22071

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

as terrorism, taking hostages, shooting indiscriminate rockets at cities, etc.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/18/systematic-torture-to-be-palestinian-in-an-israeli-prison

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-rights-group-says-palestinian-prisoners-subject-systematic-abuse-2024-08-05/

https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2024/08/30/732353/10,300-West-Bank-Palestinians-arrested-by-Israel-since-Gaza-war-onset--Rights-group

https://theintercept.com/2024/08/09/israel-prison-sde-teiman-palestinian-abuse-torture/

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It is not necessary to make this conflation for you to advocate for Palestinian rights. It doesn't help your cause to exaggerate.

I sent sources to prove that I am not making anything up nor exaggerating.

There are countless reports showing it.

In the West Bank where there is no Hamas they do countless times raids on middle of night and abduct randomy civilians and terrorize their homes. I seen interviews from ex IDF personnel saying they did raids on houses which they knew were not involved with anything dodgy just to keep them in line (aka terrorize them). 

Skip to third minute.

I saw they have close to 8000 Palestinians in jails at the moment, more than half without charges nor trials.

What are them but hostages?

I am not saying IDF are Nazis or Mongols, but by far the most brutal and inhumane army among first world countries, on par with countries like Russia. 

And even if Hamas is worse, does that mean Israel is also not awful?

We can agree both are depraved enough to the point where they go to terrorism.

You can have 2 terrorists fighting each other.

If 1 side is more terrorist than the other is irrelevant once both cross a certain line.

My point has never been that Israel is worse than Hamas, but that Israel in its own right is horrible. Nothing more.

Just like Stalin was slightly better than Hitler but still awful on his own right, and they fought agaisnt each other.

Edited September 2 by Karmadhi

[Bobby_2021]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Israel does some war crimes and sloppy bombing,

They have used AI to find out when their targets reach home and then bomb them so that they could eliminate more people. It's definitely not sloppy bombing. 

Sometimes it's malice and not negligence.

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

They have used AI to find out when their targets reach home and then bomb them so that they could eliminate more people. It's definitely not sloppy bombing. 

Of course, but they could argue they are targetting enemy combatants.

Look, I know they engage in devilry too.

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, royce said:

Hamas, which stands for "Islamic Resistance Movement" in Arabic, has certain codes of conduct they follow;

This is BS. Someone who shoots civilians and is Stage Red is not going to follow codes of conduct.

[royce]

43 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is BS. Someone who shoots civilians and is Stage Red is not going to follow codes of conduct.

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/PDF.pdf

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course, but they could argue they are targetting enemy combatants

Family of the hamas combatants including women and children are enemy combatants too??

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This is BS. Someone who shoots civilians and is Stage Red is not going to follow codes of conduct.

IDF bombs civilians too, much more than hamas.

See, accept that both IDF and hamas do plenty of terrorism. Flying an F-35 with a sonic boom over your house while you sleep, is inducing terror in the populace. 

You are right that IDF terrorism is different in that they use AI and sophisticated tech to do terrorism.

[hundreth]

15 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

That those people that were put on Palestine were the descenders of the Jews from 3000 years ago. I am sure during the last 3000 years they mixed so much with Europeans that they stopped having any sort of resemblence to the original historical Jews and therefore are not entitled to that land at all.

The whole idea that you are entitled to some land because people with your religion came from there is absurd to begin with.

They can say "We need land so we will take it, better us than you have it". That would be honest.

Is there any proof that Israelis these days, most of them have much ancestry to those people from back then?

That's not a lie. It's the truth. 

The topic of DNA and descendants came up in the last Israel thread and it was addressed there. Directly to you in fact who was making the same claims. There is tons of evidence showing the lineage between biblical Jews and even the modern European Jews. I won't bother posting it again, because you will ignore it again.

But that's besides the point, because you don't have an answer for what would constitute being a descendant. There is no answer you would accept. It's just a point you like to make, that they aren't, because that's the story that fits your narrative better.

[gettoefl]

Israel holds all the cards (and the backing) to make your life a living hell, while Hamas has all the guts (and the resolve) to ensure unending tremor-filled nights. It will continue to be a monstrous blood-shedding stalemate until kingdom comes. Seems only a true strongman could slap both into line. If anyone could do it, it would be Donald Trump (not Kamala, by the way), but unfortunately, he doesn’t see its importance

I don’t study any of this deeply, just sharing my 2c

Edited September 3 by gettoefl

[Karmadhi]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course, but they could argue they are targetting enemy combatants.

 

Would you say there is a difference in breaking international law and lying in general between Russia and Israel?

People say Israel is a democracy and hence is more trustworthy and "moral" than Russia, but isnt a democracy just a way to elect people?

I always thought that respecting human rights is independent of the method that you choose to elect those in power.

I say this because I notice that Russia makes the same claims as Israel (we bomb schools because Ukranians troops hide there etc), yet nobody believes them.

Meanwhile when Israel says the same thing, people trust it.

When it comes to rule of law which is indeed stronger in a democracy, I have rarely seen IDF soldiers be tried for war crimes or go to jail. Recently there was the scandal with the IDF guy that raped Palestinians in prison and filmed it and the guy was released and now is shown in tv shows as a celebrity.

So how exactly is being a democracy a benefit for Israel when it comes to being moral army or trustworthy?

 

Edited September 3 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

3 hours ago, hundreth said:

The topic of DNA and descendants came up in the last Israel thread and it was addressed there. Directly to you in fact who was making the same claims. There is tons of evidence showing the lineage between biblical Jews and even the modern European Jews. I won't bother posting it again, because you will ignore it again.

But that's besides the point, because you don't have an answer for what would constitute being a descendant. There is no answer you would accept. It's just a point you like to make, that they aren't, because that's the story that fits your narrative better.

To be honest Leo brought it up this time, not me.

If there is clear evidence then ok.

Still, I find the idea ridiculous to take land because it was yours 3000 years ago.

Or better said, I find it ridiculous to do that and then act like you are moral and stuff.

To justify it basically.

Just say "We need land so we took it, no choice". 

Then it would be your typical conquest which happened all the time in history.

Nothing new there.

 

Edited September 3 by Karmadhi