Israel / Palestine News Thread

[gambler]

3 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

They were offered a state on 5 occasions, and 70+% of Palestinian society doesn’t want a two state solution. And Palestinian (Iranian as well) leadership openly want to use a Palestinian state as a springboard to attack Israel. 

The UN partition plan in 1947 was the only formal and definitive offer of statehood, the other instances were negotiations that included proposals for statehood but did not constitute formal offers in the same clear-cut way.

 

Edited August 11 by gambler

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Minini said:

actually the west has already been doing this for decades, planting puppet dictatorships in areas they want to control from afar

That is not a point in your favor.

The Palestians will then start a terrorist resistance movement to dethrone the US puppet government.

Because what they want is revenge and to kill Jews. They will not let that go.

You cannot force them to act maturely.

Edited August 11 by Leo Gura

[Minini]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

That is not a point in your favor.

The Palestians will then start a terrorist resistance movement to dethrone the US puppet government.

Because what they want is revenge and to kill Jews. They will not let that go.

If that US Puppet gov focused on development and enriching their new state, most people will NOT choose to recruit. It's simple psychology. Will there be some who do? yes sure but won't create an actual threat. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Minini said:

If that US Puppet gov focused on development and enriching their new state

Stage Red/Blue views what you call "development" as Satanism, and they will kill you for it.

They don't want your "development". They want their own "development", which to them means killing Jews with bigger rockets. THAT'S development!

They don't want or care about your Green bullshit.

Edited August 11 by Leo Gura

[Minini]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Stage Red/Blue views what you call "development" as Satanism, and they will kill you for it.

They don't want your "development". They want their own "development", which to them means killing Jews with bigger rockets. THAT'S development!

They don't want or care about your Green bullshit.

I am talking about normal people, civilians. If you tried watching some videos of normal Gazans all they want is just to go back to normal life. They are not the cartoonishly evil red stage people as you portray. 

[Gennadiy1981]

30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Stage Red/Blue views what you call "development" as Satanism, and they will kill you for it.

They don't want your "development". They want their own "development", which to them means killing Jews with bigger rockets. THAT'S development!

They don't want or care about your Green bullshit.

Thank you @Leo Gura I see your latest posts you changed your mind drastically. Just curious did something or someone convince you? Because take few weeks back you were speaking totally different and now I see you recognize the situation what is happening truly there. By the way it is a compliment coming from me, I truly appreciate your answers and I could not agree more to them. But what made you change your course? Just curious if you don’t mind sharing? 

[Hardkill]

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Stage Red/Blue views what you call "development" as Satanism, and they will kill you for it.

They don't want your "development". They want their own "development", which to them means killing Jews with bigger rockets. THAT'S development!

They don't want or care about your Green bullshit.

What if Israel and other developed countries decided to improve the levels of infrastructure, education, and economy of Palestine in order to help their society develop faster and better? Could that work?

Edited August 11 by Hardkill

[Something Funny]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There are profound developmental problems baked into every Arab nation which breeds terrorism.

Yeah, like being fucked over by the west for half a century

[Something Funny]

2 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Could it work if Israel and other developed countries decided to improve the levels of infrastructure, education, and economy of Palestine in order to help their society develop faster and better?

Israel would never do that. Israel views palestinians like less than humans. Even aside from current bombings, they were actively opressing palestinian people in their daily lives. And you want them to suddenly develop a desire for helping Palestinians develop.

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That is not a point in your favor.

The Palestians will then start a terrorist resistance movement to dethrone the US puppet government.

Because what they want is revenge and to kill Jews. They will not let that go.

You cannot force them to act maturely.

Why are you convinced they innately want to kill Jews rather than just doing it as resistance to occupation?

The PLO used to attack Israel just like Hamas, but they gave up armed resistance years ago.

Egypt invaded Israel many times but hasn’t in decades.

The average Hamas member was born in an area Israel blockaded them inside with 40% unemployment and probably lost one or more family member to Israeli bombing or sniping, when they try to attack Israel to just say “I guess they innately hate Jews no matter what” makes no sense. Clearly if these motivating factors weren’t there, there would be less motivation to attack Israel.

And those aren’t even all Palestinians, most did not join Hamas despite everything.

Palestinians used to be the most secular group of Muslims in the Middle East, prior to the first intifada the population was extremely passive and just accepted constant abuse from Israel.

Prior to the formation of Israel Palestinians had lived with Jews in peace for centuries, things only went haywire when zionists started taking over and pushing them out.

 

Edited August 11 by Raze

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That is the core problem.

They will use that military for revenge against Israel.

Radicals will hijack that military. All the people serving in that military will want revenge. How is this not obvious to you?

The are not going to have modern professional military chain of command govered by human rights regulations. It will be a radical Islamist genocidal ban of thugs with tanks and rocket launchers.

Hamas offered to throw down their arms if Palestinians were given a state. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Thank you @Leo Gura I see your latest posts you changed your mind drastically. Just curious did something or someone convince you?

Nothing about my position has changed.

I have never had any illusions about Hamas.

Israel is still abusing a minority group through devilry.

I have not and will not have a bias towards either side of this debate. I am here to point out biases and epistemic errors regardless of side. I do not favor any side. My purpose is meta. That's what you see.

Edited August 11 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Minini said:

I am talking about normal people, civilians. If you tried watching some videos of normal Gazans all they want is just to go back to normal life. They are not the cartoonishly evil red stage people as you portray. 

It doesn't matter if the civilians are personally sweet or innocent people, the collective development of these people means that they will be ruled by Red psychopaths.

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, Raze said:

Why are you convinced they innately want to kill Jews rather than just doing it as resistance to occupation?

Yeah, resisting occupation.

And by "occupation" they mean Israel existing.

Edited August 11 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, Raze said:

The PLO used to attack Israel just like Hamas, but they gave up armed resistance years ago.

Egypt invaded Israel many times but hasn’t in decades.

Then why they keep shooting thousands of rockets at Israel?

If they wanted peace they wouldn't do that.

Edited August 11 by Leo Gura

[Something Funny]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, resisting occupation.

And by "occupation" they mean Israel existing.

If you look at this objectively and not from the western point of view, why should we be favouring Israel's people existance over Palestinians existance?

Because Israel also wants to eliminate them just as much.

 

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Something Funny said:

If you look at this objectively and not from the western point of view, why should we be favouring Israel's people existance over Palestinians existance?

We should not favor anyone. But we should favor truth and higher development.

1 minute ago, Something Funny said:

Because Israel also wants to eliminate them just as much.

No, not as much.

[Something Funny]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

But we should favor truth and higher development.

Bht what if this relatively higher development is a result of the lower developed side being actively bullied and prevented from ever having an opportunity to develop itself?

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, not as much.

But even you admit that there is no solution for this war. Israel is just going to keep bombing palestine until its unlivable and all palestinians are dead / gone. 

End result for palestinians is actually worse than it would be for Israelis if the sides were reversed. Because at least Israelis would have a whole bunch of first world countries where they could escape to. Palestinians are not even accepted as refugees to shitty middle eastern dictatorships. So the only choice they have is to literally sit there and go extinct, abandoned by the whole world.

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

But even you admit that there is no solution for this war. Israel is just going to keep bombing palestine until its unlivable and all palestinians are dead / gone. 

Yes, because terrorism is self-defeating.

You cannot do mass terrorism and then plead moral high ground.

If you insist on doing terrorism, developed nations will hunt you down and kill you no matter what moral claims you make. Simple.

Edited August 11 by Leo Gura

[Joel3102]

@Leo Gura As depressing as it is, do you think this will only end when one side truly wins? It seems like it’s a victim of occurring in the post war era where things like blatant ethnic cleansings or genocides aren’t allowed, so we’ve just been stuck in this middle ground for 70 years. Both sides seem as adamant as ever to achieve their goals.