Israel / Palestine News Thread

[PurpleTree]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I still regard Zionists as lying devils in this issue. They have the responsibilty to stop abusing a minority group.

they probably see themselves as a threatened minority group in the wider context

[numbersinarow]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There isn't a middle ground. Israel will kill many more Palestinians and destroy all of Gaza.

I just wish America did not enable them.

I still regard Zionists as lying devils in this issue. They have the responsibilty to stop abusing a minority group.

There isn't a middle ground. The entire stage blue left mainstream chants "From the riivveeeer to the sweeeaeeeeaaaeea poolestine will be freeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!" and 70%+ of gazans support the extermination of Israel, even tho they can't understand that Israel has it's own self-interests, all they see is their own. That's not how an adult acts.

Is it any surprise that Israel is also playing the extermination game, albeit even still not to the same degree?

[Nivsch]

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I still regard Zionists as lying devils in this issue. They have the responsibilty to stop abusing a minority group.

This is a quite tricky situation and somehow rare and unique and that exactly what preserves it.

This is indeed a group who in some senses dominates another minority group, but at the exact same time they are themselves dominat-ed by their surroundings when force on them to ever be in alertness and chronically in some fight&flight urges as a minority in an ocean of surrounding hostile countries capable to threat them seriously, what makes every micro action of Israeli's as a majority necessarily entangeled in their position as a minority in the macro scale and affected hardly by it.

Edited August 5 by Nivsch

[numbersinarow]

Just now, gambler said:

Bring back your unevolved ancestors from two centuries ago and I’ll happily rape and slaughter your poocestors as the evolved man. 

Go to North Korea, get put into a torture camp, then I'll happily be the guard working there raping and slaughtering your entire bloodline, and see if you wish for an evolved, democratic, alien civilization to come and save you. How inclined would you be to demonize this alien civilization?

Literally level 0.

[gambler]

10 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

Go to North Korea, get put into a torture camp, then I'll happily be the guard working there raping and slaughtering your entire bloodline, and see if you wish for an evolved, democratic, alien civilization to come and save you. How inclined would you be to demonize this alien civilization?

Literally level 0.

You're the only one who demonizes people here. I have never demonized a group of people. 

Why would I demonize an evolved democratic alien civilization? 

Edited August 5 by gambler

[Raze]

46 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

"Actually, people at any stage can think a minority group should not do the regular military response to an attack, based on either xenophobia or racism."

Well yes that's what I've been saying.

That isn’t what is happening. Israelis aren’t a minority, they are the occupying force. It’s not a regular military response, they dropped more bombs than the combined amount dropped on Dresden, Hamburg, and London in world war 2 despite Gaza being the size of Las Vegas, on a population of 2 million people who are 50 percent children who Israel keeps blockaded inside a strip of land with no escape, who prior to this conflict had 40% unemployment, severe lead poisoning, only 6% of water sources being clean, a significant amount of malnourished, and a majority of children showing signs of PTSD from the previous much smaller barrage, while Israel is now ramping up the blocking of aid and vital supplies from entering.

Your idea that Israel is the oppressed minority in this scenario makes no sense.

Edited August 5 by Raze

[numbersinarow]

52 minutes ago, gambler said:

You're the only one who demonizes people here. I have never demonized a group of people. 

Why would I demonize an evolved democratic alien civilization? 

Because they would be displacing North Korea in my example.

[Leo Gura]

Keep it civil and respectful here or I will be issuing warnings.

[numbersinarow]

36 minutes ago, Raze said:

That isn’t what is happening. Israelis aren’t a minority, they are the occupying force. It’s not a regular military response, they dropped more bombs than the combined amount dropped on Dresden, Hamburg, and London in world war 2 despite Gaza being the size of Las Vegas, on a population of 2 million people who are 50 percent children who Israel keeps blockaded inside a strip of land with no escape, who prior to this conflict had 40% unemployment, severe lead poisoning, only 6% of water sources being clean, a significant amount of malnourished, and a majority of children showing signs of PTSD from the previous much smaller barrage, while Israel is now ramping up the blocking of aid and vital supplies from entering.

Your idea that Israel is the oppressed minority in this scenario makes no sense.

0.2% of the world's population and demonized beyond comprehension by the mainstream for xenophobic or racist reasons. Of course it's the truth. If they are not allowed to defend themselves and are hounded by the UN for it, they are oppressed. That simple. They are issuing warnings and doing many pre-cautions which the US wouldn't do, yet both the US and Russia get to demonize them. This argument doesn't hold up since the people in the open air prison can be oppressed too.

[Raze]

7 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

0.2% of the world's population and demonized beyond comprehension by the mainstream for xenophobic or racist reasons. Of course it's the truth. If they are not allowed to defend themselves and are hounded by the UN for it, they are oppressed. That simple. They are issuing warnings and doing many pre-cautions which the US wouldn't do, yet both the US and Russia get to demonize them. This argument doesn't hold up since the people in the open air prison can be oppressed too.

Whether you are oppressed or a minority is dependent on the context of the specific area, not the entire world. When Germany was attacked in world war 2 by America, Britain, Russia, and others, they were a much smaller minority than all those countries combined, but no one considers them a oppressed minority as they were putting people into camps and bombing cities.

Israel isn’t demonized for xenophobic and racist reasons, Israel was much more popular in the past when antisemitism was much more normal and common since ww2 had just ended, they are demonized for breaking international law and mass killing.

Israel has been caught firing upon safe zones they have told people to evacuate too multiple times.

The UN a and other international bodies aren’t oppressing Israel, they are trying to help them and the Palestinians by pressuring them to follow the law. For example the ICJ’s pressure forced Israel to admit to torturing Palestinians in their prisons and now they have renewed awareness about it, although many Israelis then rioted for the right to gang rape Palestinians, many others started applying pressure to improve the conditions. Had this not happened and the UN and others said nothing to “ not oppress them”, the behavior would have escalated.

Same for when the US pressured Israel to not completely shut off water, food, and gas to Gaza, had they just enabled them and let them continue far more innocent people would have died.

Edited August 5 by Raze

[numbersinarow]

Just now, Raze said:

they are demonized for breaking international law and mass killing.

That's the only thing you needed to admit to see your worldview is deeply flawed.

International law is biased and not applied to every party in the world, even if it's for pragmatic reasons, so you're further confirming what I've said.

What should they have done? Not bomb anyone, when opposing a force which has literally admitted to pushing the buttons of the mainstream, and this being the weapon they are most dedicated to using? It's easy to portray Israel has the bad guy when you aren't going to say what they actually should have done instead and aren't going to acknowledge the most obvious truth, which is that Hamas is allowed to make Israel look immoral only through double standards, which again, are not applied to the US or Britain. Therefore, are applied due to racist or xenophobic reasons.

[Raze]

2 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

That's the only thing you needed to admit to see your worldview is deeply flawed.

International law is biased and not applied to every party in the world, even if it's for pragmatic reasons, so you're further confirming what I've said.

What should they have done? Not bomb anyone, when opposing a force which has literally admitted to pushing the buttons of the mainstream, and this being the weapon they are most dedicated to using? It's easy to portray Israel has the bad guy when you aren't going to say what they actually should have done instead and aren't going to acknowledge the most obvious truth, which is that Hamas is allowed to make Israel look immoral only through double standards, which again, are not applied to the US or Britain. Therefore, are applied due to racist or xenophobic reasons.

And you’re ignoring the countless double standards Israel benefits from that other countries don’t to continue the narrative they are oppressed.

[zazen]

9 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

What should they have done?

''The fact that Israel would not have responded to October 7 by ending the abuses which caused it doesn't change the fact that this would have been the correct thing for Israel to do. It just means the same depravities and injustices which gave rise to the state of Israel continue to exist and express themselves to this day. It means Israel itself is the problem. Which means the real issue with the objection "Well what SHOULD Israel have done in response to October 7 then?" is that it's asking the wrong question. The correct question to ask is, what should the world do about Israel? What should the world do about this murderous entity which keeps trying to drag the world into a horrific new war with Iran and its allies? What should the world do about this apartheid ethnostate whose relentless abuses were so egregious that Palestinians felt they had no choice but to carry out the October 7 attack?

And when you peel back the layers of this question you find that the question underneath it is, what should the world do about the US empire? What should the world do about this massive globe-spanning power structure which feeds into Israel's abuses as a matter of policy to advance its own agendas of destabilisation and division in a geostrategically crucial resource-rich region? What should the world do about the international power structure centralized around Washington which continuously terrorizes and abuses populations around the world with the goal of capturing them all under a single power umbrella? I keep saying "the world" because this isn't just an Israel problem or a United States problem. Clearly. We stand here on the precipice of what could easily become a massive new war in the middle east because of Israel's actions and the US-centralized empire's psychopathic facilitation of them, which means this affects all of us. Even if we manage to avoid full-scale war this time, we know we'll be on the precipice again in a few years.'' - Caitlin Johnstone 

[Nivsch]

46 minutes ago, zazen said:

October 7 by ending the abuses which caused it

I disagree. If the far right wing of Israel wants all Palestinians out only out of an Ideology, then so too hamas can want all Israelis out, just out of an ideology without needed any help from anyone to cause him to want that.

Edited August 5 by Nivsch

[PurpleTree]

45 minutes ago, zazen said:

''The fact that Israel would not have responded to October 7 by ending the abuses which caused it doesn't change the fact that this would have been the correct thing for Israel to do. It just means the same depravities and injustices which gave rise to the state of Israel continue to exist and express themselves to this day. It means Israel itself is the problem. Which means the real issue with the objection "Well what SHOULD Israel have done in response to October 7 then?" is that it's asking the wrong question. The correct question to ask is, what should the world do about Israel? What should the world do about this murderous entity which keeps trying to drag the world into a horrific new war with Iran and its allies? What should the world do about this apartheid ethnostate whose relentless abuses were so egregious that Palestinians felt they had no choice but to carry out the October 7 attack?

And when you peel back the layers of this question you find that the question underneath it is, what should the world do about the US empire? What should the world do about this massive globe-spanning power structure which feeds into Israel's abuses as a matter of policy to advance its own agendas of destabilisation and division in a geostrategically crucial resource-rich region? What should the world do about the international power structure centralized around Washington which continuously terrorizes and abuses populations around the world with the goal of capturing them all under a single power umbrella? I keep saying "the world" because this isn't just an Israel problem or a United States problem. Clearly. We stand here on the precipice of what could easily become a massive new war in the middle east because of Israel's actions and the US-centralized empire's psychopathic facilitation of them, which means this affects all of us. Even if we manage to avoid full-scale war this time, we know we'll be on the precipice again in a few years.'' - Caitlin Johnstone 

 

 

its time for the iranian regime to be a goner. Have you seen what they did to their own population recently. Female protests etc. i hope israel takes them out. That’s the only good thing that could come out of this israel/palestine thing imo

 

 

[hundreth]

https://nypost.com/2024/08/05/world-news/un-admits-nine-unrwa-staffers-may-have-been-involved-in-oct-7-attack-on-israel/
 

“For us, any participation in the attacks is a tremendous betrayal of the sort of work that we are supposed to be doing on behalf of the Palestinian people,” Haq said.

The suspected terror collaborators, all men, will be fired, the agency said — without identifying the suspects or detailing what atrocities they may have participated in.

Embattled UNRWA Commissioner General Philippe Lazzarini, who previously slammed the US and other nations who halted donations to the humanitarian group after the allegations against its employees, agreed to boot the nine employees cited in the UN report. 

“I have decided that in the case of these remaining nine staff members, they cannot work for UNRWA,” Lazzarini said in a statement.
 

 

[Raze]

 

Edited August 6 by Raze

[Nivsch]

Edited August 6 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

On 04/08/2024 at 5:33 PM, hundreth said:

The issue with your deterministic view of the Palestinian response is that you apply it selectively only to them. It seems environment, upbringing and surroundings don't apply to Israelis - so it's fine to moralize their actions. You aren't allowed to judge anything Palestinians do though, they are the only ones who lack free will

Dude you guys are rich first world people that live super well. People were partying smoking weed when the attack happened. People chill on beaches and overall have great services and social security.

The civilian death toll in the last 20 years has been super low (prior to the october attacks), probably more Israelis died from suicide or obesity compared to from Palestinians.

That is why we have so little empathy for them. because most of them didnt endure any hardships from the other side

[Karmadhi]

On 04/08/2024 at 1:57 AM, Leo Gura said:

The top leader of Hamas did a public interview after Oct 7th where he clearly stated that Hamas would do another Oct 7th over and over again until all Jews were removed from their land.

So you are just wrong about what Hamas wants.

Their charter is meaningless. Hamas are genocidal lunatics, 10x worse than any Zionist.

And Israeli officials have not?

Read what Ben Gvir and other key politicians have said. How is it any different?

The International Court has said there is reasonable case to think Israeli is doing a genocide in Gaza so how exactly is Hamas 10 times worse?

Obviously Israel has a reputation and PR to maintain so they cannot do it as blatantly but the intent and actions are all there.

And since you use the nuke argument.

The reason Israel does not use nukes its not because it is developed enough not to, its because it simply does not need it due to the huge difference in power.

If Israel was cornered in the same way Hamas is, they would totally use it.

It is the same reason why Russia has not used nukes in Ukraine yet. 
Simply they do not need them.

Regarding atrocities all I have seen Hamas do is shoot people in the head and rape. Regarding rape, we do not know the scale. 
Rape in itself is something that happens in every war. Israelis have also done it in Gaza. Shooting people same thing.

I just saw a horrible clip of a Gaza mother and baby locked in a house and the house was sat on fire. The IDF soldier was singing on the background while the baby was heard screaming. The IDF guy himself posted it on social media.

When you can show me such things done by Hamas then I will believe you

The last time i saw such a thing was from a movie called come and see which shows some SS staff doing to a belarusian village