Israel / Palestine News Thread

[hundreth]

9 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Cute. 

It's just the reality.

If Hezbollah wanted to truly harm Israel they would have to leave their caves.

Nasrallah has already made it clear he doesn't want to do that. In fact, he's probably shitting bricks right now after seeing his right hand man get wacked. 

[hundreth]

This is super interesting... and a stark contrast to what you see represented all the time regarding Israeli society.

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

Nasrallah has already made it clear he doesn't want to do that.

Because they are resisting the illegal occupation of the Zionists, not the state of Israel.

They have enough missiles to take out Tel aviv, if they wish so.

[Raze]

 

Edited July 31 by Raze

[Nivsch]

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Because they are resisting the illegal occupation of the Zionists, not the state of Israel.

They have enough missiles to take out Tel aviv, if they wish so.

Hezbollah is an arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard IRGC, therefore its DNA is identical to the Iranian regime way of thinking which has nothing to do with an occupation of a Jordanian or Syrian land (Hezbollah is from Lebanon even), but with the Israeli entity itself.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

Edited July 31 by Nivsch

[hundreth]

3 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Because they are resisting the illegal occupation of the Zionists, not the state of Israel.

They have enough missiles to take out Tel aviv, if they wish so.

 

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

Hezbollah is an arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard IRGC, therefore its DNA is identical to the Iranian regime way of thinking which has nothing to do with an occupation of a Jordanian or Syrian land (Hezbollah is from Lebanon), but with the Israeli entity itself.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

Yes, Iran and all of it's proxies including Hezbollah are for the destruction of Israel.

This whole idea that Hezbollah and other proxies could take out Tel Aviv, but are showing restraint is comical. If Iran or any of it's proxies had the means to destroy Israel tomorrow, they would push the button immediately. Having x number of missiles is meaningless. 

Iran especially embarrassed itself with it's last missile attempt. They blew their entire load to make a spectacle, and achieved nothing. 

Meanwhile, Israel has known exactly where the Hamas / Hezbollah leaders have been and waited until confrontation / strategic moments to strike. 

 

Edited July 31 by hundreth

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

Hezbollah is an arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard IRGC, therefore its DNA is identical to the Iranian regime way of thinking which has nothing to do with an occupation of a Jordanian or Syrian land (Hezbollah is from Lebanon), but with the Israeli entity itself.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

Hezbollah was founded to resist the occupation of Lebanon by Israel

36 minutes ago, hundreth said:

Yes, Iran and all of it's proxies including Hezbollah are for the destruction of Israel.

This whole idea that Hezbollah and other proxies could take out Tel Aviv, but are showing restraint is comical. If Iran or any of it's proxies had the means to destroy Israel tomorrow, they would push the button immediately. Having x number of missiles is meaningless. 

Iran especially embarrassed itself with it's last missile attempt. They blew their entire load to make a spectacle, and achieved nothing. 

Meanwhile, Israel has known exactly where the Hamas / Hezbollah leaders have been and waited until confrontation / strategic moments to strike. 

Hezbollah and Iran are displaying more restraint than Israel.

Hezbollah says they’ll declare a ceasefire if Israel stops bombarding Gaza. The ceasefire is wanted by the majority of Americans and majority of countries in the world and would have and can save thousands of lives including the hostages. They’ve also killed far less civilians than Israel has in Lebanon and Gaza.

Iran just used a fraction of their old and slow moving missiles and warned countries in advance because they wanted them to be shot down to avoid a massive escalation.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/04/14/middle-east-iran-israel-war-00152138

Iran also warned their proxies to avoid major attacks limiting them to small strikes to pressure a ceasefire

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/02/18/iran-proxies-middle-east/

Compared to Israel which assassinated a Iranian general by bombing a consulate and continues the siege on Gaza despite worldwide condemnation and just struck Beruit, that is far more restrained.

The Hamas leader Israel assassinated was part of a more moderate wing of Hamas 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/obituary-tough-talking-haniyeh-was-seen-more-moderate-face-hamas-2024-07-31/

Iran also offered to cease funding militants in 2003 but the US rejected it https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/opinion/29kristof.html

Israel also has a long history of sabotaging Iranian peace and de-escalation proposals.

Edited July 31 by Raze

[Nivsch]

23 minutes ago, Raze said:

Hezbollah was founded to resist the occupation of Lebanon by Israel

Hezbollah and Iran are displaying more restraint than Israel.

Hezbollah says they’ll declare a ceasefire if Israel stops bombarding Gaza. The ceasefire is wanted by the majority of Americans and majority of countries in the world and would have and can save thousands of lives including the hostages. They’ve also killed far less civilians than Israel has in Lebanon and Gaza.

Iran just used a fraction of their old and slow moving missiles and warned countries in advance because they wanted them to be shot down to avoid a massive escalation.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/04/14/middle-east-iran-israel-war-00152138

Iran also warned their proxies to avoid major attacks limiting them to small strikes to pressure a ceasefire

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/02/18/iran-proxies-middle-east/

Compared to Israel which assassinated a Iranian general by bombing a consulate and continues the siege on Gaza despite worldwide condemnation and just struck Beruit, that is far more restrained.

The Hamas leader Israel assassinated was part of a more moderate wing of Hamas 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/obituary-tough-talking-haniyeh-was-seen-more-moderate-face-hamas-2024-07-31/

Iran also offered to cease funding militants in 2003 but the US rejected it https://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/opinion/29kristof.html

Israel also has a long history of sabotaging Iranian peace and de-escalation proposals.

These are all the symptoms on the shell.

The intentionality and essential aim in the core is what matters.

Edited July 31 by Nivsch

[Raze]

17 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

These are all the shell's symptoms.

The intentionality and aim in the core is what matters.

Hezbollah has no ability to destroy Israel, their force is too small.

The only way Iran could destroy Israel is if they used nukes, but that would result in them being nuked and Iran has offered proposals to take them having nukes off the table but Israel rejected it.

If the argument is that because Iranian and Hezbollah leaders called for Israel to be destroyed they can’t be trusted, why should we trust Israel which is destroying Palestine and the ruling Likud party calls for the destruction of Palestine?

Israel has bombarded Gaza, expanded West Bank settlements, and assassinated Iranian and Hezbollah leaders for decades, but it did not stop Palestinian or Iranian resistance, based on this past history there no indication the current use of these tactics will change that.

On the other hand, if Israel pursued peace and equal rights with Palestinians, Iran and Hezbollah would have difficulty justifying their military expenditure, especially since more of the Arab world would start normalizations with them.

Edited July 31 by Raze

[Heaven]

Justifying is easy but see things as they are is harder because it’s mostly hidden for the majority of people.

Russia and US has been for decades in a hidden war. They never confronted each other because it would lead to a disaster.

Same is happening with the US and Iran now.

If you support Hamas, Hizbuala, you support Iran.

The question you need to ask yourself is why you live in a Western country and support its biggest enemies? Stop being cynical. Go live in Iran/Russia/North Korea and see how it goes. My guess is that you will try to escape after a week.

Edited July 31 by Heaven

[gambler]

@Heaven I have family that live in Iran, it's not comparable to North Korea. Furthermore, they love living there. Obviously it could be better and there are problems that need solving.

Edited August 1 by gambler

[Heaven]

24 minutes ago, gambler said:

@Heaven I have family that live in Iran, it's not comparable to North Korea. Furthermore, they love living there. Obviously it could be better and there are problems that need solving.

May I ask if your family that lives there are Arabs? Are they religious? Do they have access to internet(Like us)? 
I’m curious so excuse me in advanced.

[gambler]

Just now, Heaven said:

May I ask if your family that lives there are Arabs? Are they religious? Do they have access to internet(Like us)? 
I’m curious so excuse me in advanced.

They are Arabs from Khuzestan, how’d you guess that? I’m not sure about internet, I’d have to ask my dad. And yes they are religious. 

[Raze]

2 hours ago, Heaven said:

Justifying is easy but see things as they are is harder because it’s mostly hidden for the majority of people.

Russia and US has been for decades in a hidden war. They never confronted each other because it would lead to a disaster.

Same is happening with the US and Iran now.

If you support Hamas, Hizbuala, you support Iran.

The question you need to ask yourself is why you live in a Western country and support its biggest enemies? Stop being cynical. Go live in Iran/Russia/North Korea and see how it goes. My guess is that you will try to escape after a week.

I am not for or against any country. I like aspects and dislike aspects of all countries. My advocacy in this thread is about helping all innocent civilians from being hurt in all countries.

Edited August 1 by Raze

[Nivsch]

8 hours ago, Raze said:

to take them having nukes off the table but Israel rejected it.

What Israel will do against 6 Muslim countries if won't have a nuke to detter them? Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Hezbollah, Iran, Turkey and Syria together. Imagine that. This is a pretty serious threat.

Edited August 1 by Nivsch

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

What Israel will do against 6 Muslim countries if won't have a nuke to detter them? Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Hezbollah, Iran, Turkey and Syria together. Imagine that. This is a pretty serious threat.

- this implies if Israel gets into a major war they can use nukes as a first strike to win against countries without nukes, this violates no first use 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_first_use

Egypt has a peace treaty with Israel and Turkey has never attacked Israel

- US and Israeli politicians are constantly threatening Iran and assassinating officials, the US has invaded countries before that did not attack them such as Irans neighbor Iraq which was an invasion the Israel supported, by this logic Iran should have a right to make nukes as well to deter those threats. Then this spirals into a middle eastern Cold War.

- Iran also agreed to a nuclear deal with international oversight which allowed Israel to retain nukes and Israel pressured the US to cancel it.  
 

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/23/israelis-u-s-iran-nuclear-deal-00053363

https://apnews.com/article/iran-nuclear-israel-netanyahu-ad18fad61b25fd9c4e7a206dfab049c5

Edited August 1 by Raze

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Raze said:

this implies if Israel gets into a major war they can use nukes as a first strike to win against countries without nukes, this violates no first use

No major war but only if get cornered to an immediate existential threat. Thats the aim of the nuke.

2 hours ago, Raze said:

US and Israeli politicians are constantly threatening Iran and assassinating officials, the US has invaded countries before that did not attack them such as Irans neighbor Iraq which was an invasion the Israeli government supported, by this logic Iran should have a right to make nukes as well to deter those threats. 

Was US mistake. Agree about the invasions.

2 hours ago, Raze said:

Iran also agreed to a nuclear deal with international oversight which allowed Israel to retain nukes and Israel pressured the US to cancel it.  

Yes, that was Trump and Bibi's mistake.

Edited August 1 by Nivsch

[zazen]

22 hours ago, hundreth said:

Killing Hamas' leader isn't an escalation, it's what Israel has been saying it's objective was since the beginning.

It's just the narrative over time has become that Israel only cares about slaughtering children, so when one of their goals actually comes to fruition months later it seems crazy.

Today was a good day.

Good reminder of the objective, but good to remember that some objectives don’t reach their intended goals. If the goal is de-escalation and a ceasefire or end to the conflict, then I’m not sure if this achieves that in the macro.

“Political assassinations and continued targeting of civilians in Gaza while talks continue leads us to ask, how can mediation succeed when one party assassinates the negotiator on the other side?” tweeted the Prime Minister of Qatar.

“So Israel murders Hamas political leader and key negotiator, Ismael Haniyeh, and wants us to believe it is serious about negotiating a ceasefire?” tweeted Code Pink’s Medea Benjamin. “And it kills him at the inauguration of Iran’s new president Pezeshkian, who campaigned for better relations with the West. Instead of a ceasefire and a regional de-escalation, Netanyahu is gunning for a full-scale regional war.”

“Saying they want a ceasefire and then assassinating the guy they’d negotiate it with is a pretty clear sign of how serious Israel is about diplomacy,” tweeted Ajam Media Collective’s Alex Shams.

Not to mention the breaching of sovereign jurisdictions including Irans. The last firework retaliatory display from Iran in response to the Syrian consulate attack was just a show of capability, not their actual competence if they had to go to war. They communicated with the US on when how and where they were going to attack so it could be intercepted (though even then a few failed) and to save face in order to de escalate tensions.

Not sure what’s to come now but I don’t think they want a full on war either. They’re part of the BRICS network now and re-establish good ties with Saudi basically wanting to focus on economic development.

[hundreth]

3 hours ago, zazen said:

Good reminder of the objective, but good to remember that some objectives don’t reach their intended goals. If the goal is de-escalation and a ceasefire or end to the conflict, then I’m not sure if this achieves that in the macro.

“Political assassinations and continued targeting of civilians in Gaza while talks continue leads us to ask, how can mediation succeed when one party assassinates the negotiator on the other side?” tweeted the Prime Minister of Qatar.

“So Israel murders Hamas political leader and key negotiator, Ismael Haniyeh, and wants us to believe it is serious about negotiating a ceasefire?” tweeted Code Pink’s Medea Benjamin. “And it kills him at the inauguration of Iran’s new president Pezeshkian, who campaigned for better relations with the West. Instead of a ceasefire and a regional de-escalation, Netanyahu is gunning for a full-scale regional war.”

“Saying they want a ceasefire and then assassinating the guy they’d negotiate it with is a pretty clear sign of how serious Israel is about diplomacy,” tweeted Ajam Media Collective’s Alex Shams.

Not to mention the breaching of sovereign jurisdictions including Irans. The last firework retaliatory display from Iran in response to the Syrian consulate attack was just a show of capability, not their actual competence if they had to go to war. They communicated with the US on when how and where they were going to attack so it could be intercepted (though even then a few failed) and to save face in order to de escalate tensions.

Not sure what’s to come now but I don’t think they want a full on war either. They’re part of the BRICS network now and re-establish good ties with Saudi basically wanting to focus on economic development.

Israel's goal from the start has never been de-escalation and a ceasefire, it was the elimination of Hamas. 

From that lens, everything checks out. The only ceasefires Israel has been serious about are either temporary, or with the full release of the hostages and no other conditions. This will never happen.

The only remaining question is how many more Hamas leaders will Israel take out before it decides it's time to let up.