Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Nivsch]

@Raze The only thing I can think about is to maybe pressure hamas about the deal that was in November and that tried to do in January (the times of those articles) but even if this is the case, this is problematic so I have no interest to deffend it or to give a clear cut answer because I don't have.

If this was very temporary when in the other side were the hostages on the stake the answer is complex.

But there is an option this wasn't because of the hostages at all and our governemt just decided to do so out of the thin air.

I don't know what is true.

Edited July 29 by Nivsch

[Raze]

59 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Raze The only thing I can think about is to maybe pressure hamas about the deal that was in November and that tried to do in January (the times of those articles) but even if this is the case, this is problematic so I have no interest to deffend it or to give a clear cut answer because I don't have.

If this was very temporary when in the other side were the hostages on the stake the answer is complex.

But there is an option this wasn't because of the hostages at all and our governemt just decided to do so out of the thin air.

I don't know what is true.

The finance minister retweeted agreement of a article from a retired major general saying severe epidemics could help the war effort 

https://x.com/bezalelsm/status/1726198721946480911

They found traces of polio in Gaza waste water 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2024/07/26/nx-s1-5049852/gaza-polio-who

And are now giving vaccines to IDF

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-to-give-booster-vaccinations-to-soldiers-after-polio-virus-found-in-gaza-sewage/
 

Are they purposefully forcing Gazans to be exposed to sewage and  contaminated water to expose them to diseases like polio? 

[Nivsch]

@Raze Ok I read it. This is an extreme view and I won't be surprised if Smotrich or Ben Gvir are holding it.

Of course not my view. But again, after 3000 terrorists will come to your village and your home you will not be in a position to think rationally. You will only be traumatized and generalizing. This is NATURAL. Especially only one month after the event.

And then when you have an extreme government like we have now, some of that will glitch into actions in subtle ways. What again, isn't justified of course and this is a bad and wrong way.

Edited July 29 by Nivsch

[Bobby_2021]

4 hours ago, Raze said:

The finance minister retweeted agreement of a article from a retired major general saying severe epidemics could help the war effort 

https://x.com/bezalelsm/status/1726198721946480911

They found traces of polio in Gaza waste water 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2024/07/26/nx-s1-5049852/gaza-polio-who

And are now giving vaccines to IDF

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-to-give-booster-vaccinations-to-soldiers-after-polio-virus-found-in-gaza-sewage/
 

Are they purposefully forcing Gazans to be exposed to sewage and  contaminated water to expose them to diseases like polio? 

They wanted to make Gaza unlivable for Palestinians. 

[Raze]

 

Edited July 29 by Raze

[Nivsch]

[Raze]

16 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@Raze Ok I read it. This is an extreme view and I won't be surprised if Smotrich or Ben Gvir are holding it.

Of course not my view. But again, after 3000 terrorists will come to your village and your home you will not be in a position to think rationally. You will only be traumatized and generalizing. This is NATURAL. Especially only one month after the event.

And then when you have an extreme government like we have now, some of that will glitch into actions in subtle ways. What again, isn't justified of course and this is a bad and wrong way.

Quote

the ICRC note that sanitation is suffering, because construction projects lack the equipment needed, or the equipment is of poor quality. Only 60% of the population is connected to a sewerage collection system, with the rest polluting the Gaza aquifer. As a result, water is largely "unfit for consumption".

https://web.archive.org/web/20100615191747/http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/palestine-update-140610
 

Quote

In November 1967 the Israeli authorities issued Military Order 158, which stated that Palestinians could not construct any new water installation without first obtaining a permit from the Israeli army. Since then, the extraction of water from any new source or the development of any new water infrastructure would require permits from Israel, which are near impossible to obtain. Palestinians living under Israel’s military occupation continue to suffer the devastating consequences of this order until today. They are unable to drill new water wells, install pumps or deepen existing wells, in addition to being denied access to the Jordan River and fresh water springs. Israel even controls the collection of rain water throughout most of the West Bank, and rainwater harvesting cisterns owned by Palestinian communities are often destroyed by the Israeli army. As a result, some 180 Palestinian communities in rural areas in the occupied West Bank have no access to running water, according to OCHA. Even in towns and villages which are connected to the water network, the taps often run dry.

Quote

In Gaza, some 90-95 per cent of the water supply is contaminated and unfit for human consumption. Israel does not allow water to be transferred from the West Bank to Gaza, and Gaza’s only fresh water resource, the Coastal Aquifer, is insufficient for the needs of the population and is being increasingly depleted by over-extraction and contaminated by sewage and seawater infiltration.

The resulting disparity in access to water between Israelis and Palestinians is truly staggering. Water consumption by Israelis is at least four times that of Palestinians living in the OPT. Palestinians consume on average 73 litres of water a day per person, which is well below the World Health Organization’s (WHO) recommended daily minimum of 100 litres per capita. In many herding communities in the West Bank, the water consumption for thousands of Palestinians is as low as 20 litres per person a day, according to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA). By contrast, an average Israeli consumes approximately 300 litres of water a day.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/

 

Quote

Researchers: Gazan Children Face Dangerous Levels of Lead

Some children living near pollution sources were found to have such high levels of the toxic substance that they were prescribed medication for lead poisoning

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2019-06-25/ty-article/.premium/researchers-gazan-children-face-dangerous-levels-of-lead/0000017f-dbcb-df62-a9ff-dfdf05230000

But why, prior to Oct 7, was Israel limiting access to water in Gaza?

 

[Nivsch]

@Raze I Don't know enough about this.

But even if I knew, and even if I had a good explanation, this wouldn't help, because the west will always be the only bad guy at the end of the day 😉 Good night.

Edited July 30 by Nivsch

[Raze]

@numbersinarow

4 questions

1) do you consider Oct 7 a terrorist attack?

2) why?

3) is the fact they carried it out enough justification that Hamas should be destroyed 

4) are Palestinians who support Hamas implicated in this?

Edited July 30 by Raze

[Bobby_2021]

5 hours ago, Nivsch said:

I don't know if Israel will disintegrate, although the path ahead is bleak. But the Zionist entity certainly will. 

[zazen]

7 hours ago, Raze said:

 

They claim October 7th had mass rape take place (some probably did) , which they deny investigation into. Then, when Israeli sources evidence actual systemic rape by their own IDF who are detained, they protest to get them out. Who knows if this is justice or just a PR stunt to appease the West since being pressured by the ICJ rulings, UK not objecting to ICC arrest warrants for Bibi and now saying they will limit or stop arms sales to Israel.

More balanced Israelis will see these protesters as far right and lay blame to Netenyahu, Ben Gvir and the like. But these are symptoms of a situation which necessitates the dehumanisation of the other, which warps the minds and political landscape in order for the situation to keep on existing as it is - as a occupation dominating another group of people. You can’t occupy another group, without warping your own psychology in order to do so.

Regular Israelis will do their best to compartmentalise away the reality of their states existence and focus on the fact they are a “democracy” with Western “values” to sleep better at night. They’re correct about sharing in Western values, but the worst one they share is supremacism.

Edited July 30 by zazen

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, zazen said:

More balanced Israelis will see these protesters as far right and lay blame to Netenyahu, Ben Gvir and the like. But these are symptoms of a situation which necessitates the dehumanisation of the other, which warps the minds and political landscape in order for the situation to keep on existing as it is - as a occupation dominating another group of people. You can’t occupy another group, without warping your own psychology in order to do so.

Yes basically both sides are trapped in a catch 22 for decades when each side do things that fuel fear, hate and demonization in the other. A vicous loop.

Edited July 30 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

11 hours ago, zazen said:

Regular Israelis will do their best to compartmentalise away the reality of their states existence and focus on the fact they are a “democracy” with Western “values” to sleep better at night. They’re correct about sharing in Western values, but the worst one they share is supremacism.

Most Israelis aren't really knowledged in the details of the situation in west bank and even Gaza (including me until this war). A new education for both sides about the opposite side is required.

Edited July 30 by Nivsch

[Raze]

 

Edited July 31 by Raze

[Nivsch]

[zazen]

@Nivsch Respect to your honesty.

News: Within 12 hours, Israel's military appears to have killed Hezbollah's most senior military leader who was located in the outskirts of Beirut, as well as the leader of Hamas, who was in Tehran.

Quite a escalation - looks like Bibi got some renewed confidence after visiting Washington.

[hundreth]

3 hours ago, zazen said:

@Nivsch Respect to your honesty.

News: Within 12 hours, Israel's military appears to have killed Hezbollah's most senior military leader who was located in the outskirts of Beirut, as well as the leader of Hamas, who was in Tehran.

Quite a escalation - looks like Bibi got some renewed confidence after visiting Washington.

Killing Hamas' leader isn't an escalation, it's what Israel has been saying it's objective was since the beginning.

It's just the narrative over time has become that Israel only cares about slaughtering children, so when one of their goals actually comes to fruition months later it seems crazy.

Today was a good day.

[Bobby_2021]

This will invite more consequences than murdering kids. 

[hundreth]

5 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

This will invite more consequences than murdering kids. 

We've been hearing this song and dance for months. How super strong Hezbollah is going to wake up and overpower Israel.

No one is scared.

Hezbollah is strong within Lebanon because they have networks of tunnels and caves they can conduct guerrilla warfare from. They aren't capable of a real offensive front on Israel. Though they can certainly pester northern Israel indefinitely.

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

We've been hearing this song and dance for months. How super strong Hezbollah is going to wake up and overpower Israel.

No one is scared.

Hezbollah is strong within Lebanon because they have networks of tunnels and caves they can conduct guerrilla warfare from. They aren't capable of a real offensive front on Israel. Though they can certainly pester northern Israel indefinitely.

Cute.