Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Raze]

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/07/19/gaza-hospitals-surgeons-00167697

https://archive.is/Pk5Q1

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We Volunteered at a Gaza Hospital.

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GAZA — In the United States we would never dream of operating on anyone without consent, let alone a malnourished and barely conscious 9-year-old girl in septic shock. Nevertheless, when we saw Juri, that’s exactly what we did.

We have no idea how Juri ended up in the Gaza European Hospital preoperative area. All we could see was that she had an external fixator — a scaffold of metal pins and rods — on her left leg and necrotic skin on her face and arms from the explosion that tore her little body to shreds. Just touching her blankets elicited shrieks of pain and terror. She was slowly dying, so we decided to take the risk of anesthetizing her without knowing exactly what we would find.

In the operating room, we examined Juri from head to toe. This beautiful, meek little girl was missing two inches of her left femur along with most of the muscle and skin on the back of her thigh. Both of her buttocks were flayed open, cutting so deeply through flesh that the lowest bones in her pelvis were exposed. As we swept our hands through this topography of cruelty, maggots fell in clumps onto the operating room table.

“Jesus Christ,” Feroze muttered as we washed the larvae into a bucket, “she’s just a fucking kid.”

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By the time we arrived, 59 percent of all the hospital beds in Gaza had been destroyed, while the remaining partially functioning hospitals operated at 359 percent of their actual bed capacity. The World Health Organization describes them as “partially operational.”

European Hospital is located at the southeastern edge of Khan Younis; it’s normally one of three hospitals providing elective general, orthopedic, neurosurgical and cardiac surgical services to a city of 419,000 people in southern Gaza. Now it functions as the only trauma center for well over 1.5 million people, an impossible task even under the best of circumstances. It is likely the safest and best-resourced city block in the entire Gaza Strip — and yet its horrors defy description.

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We started seeing a series of children, preteens mostly, who’d been shot in the head. They’d go on to slowly die, only to be replaced by new victims who’d also been shot in the head, and who would also go on to slowly die. Their families told us one of two stories: the children were playing inside when they were shot by Israeli forces, or they were playing in the street when they were shot by Israeli forces.

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On April 2 we met Tamer. His Facebook posts show a proud young man and father who became a nurse to provide for his two small children — no small feat in a land with one of the highest unemployment rates in the world. When Israel raided Indonesian Hospital last November, he was assisting the orthopedics team in the operating room. He refused to leave his anesthetized patient. He said Israeli soldiers shot him in the leg, breaking his femur. His own orthopedic team cared for him, placing an external fixator to stabilize his shattered leg.

Next, Tamer told us, the Israelis came to his hospital room and took him, where exactly he doesn’t know. He told us he was strapped to a table for 45 days, given a juice box every day — sometimes every other day — and denied medical care for his broken femur. During that time, he told us, he was beaten so badly that his right eye was destroyed. As malnutrition set in, he developed osteomyelitis — infection of the bone itself — in his broken femur. Later, he said, he was unceremoniously dumped naked on the side of a road. With metal sticking out of his infected and broken leg and his right eye hanging out of his skull he crawled for two miles until someone found him and brought him to European Hospital.

When we met Tamer at the hospital for treatment, all that was left of him was the disfigured outline of a human being, his body crippled by violence, his eye surgically removed and his mind haunted by torture. A man who once healed others was reduced to constantly begging for pain medications, reliant on others for everything — and wondering if his wife and children were even alive.

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Israa, a 26-year-old woman with a fair complexion and a quiet voice, arrived with our first mass casualty event around 4 a.m., on our second day in Gaza. In the chaos nobody could translate for us, so we were forced to improvise as she sobbed uncontrollably on a stretcher. All the ligaments in her right knee were torn; she had three open fractures in her two legs; and a massive chunk of her left thigh had been torn off. Both of her hands had second degree burns, and her face, arms and chest were stippled with shrapnel and debris. In the same incident a teenage girl came in with a lethal traumatic brain injury (she died the next morning) and a 7-year-old boy came in with a ruptured spleen (he recovered after several days).

After three days in the hospital, Israa, a mother of four, told us how she was injured: Her home was bombed without warning. She saw all her children die in front of her when the ceiling collapsed on top of them. Her relatives confirmed that her entire immediate family was buried under the rubble of their home. We didn’t have the heart to tell Israa that some of her children were probably still alive at that moment, dying unimaginably cruel deaths from dehydration and sepsis while trapped alone in a pitch-black tomb that alternates as an oven during the day and a freezer at night.

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On April 4 two young siblings, Rafif and Rafiq, arrived in the emergency room. An airstrike in Gaza City earlier in the war killed their mother along with 10 other members of their family and ripped through their immature and malnourished bodies. Both were being treated at Shifa Hospital in Gaza City when Israel raided the hospital for the second time in March. Medical Aid for Palestinians, a British charity, repeatedly requested that Israel allow MAP to evacuate these two critically ill children from Shifa. Israel repeatedly refused, according to MAP. Perhaps sensing what was to come, the children’s family members somehow got them out of the hospital, onto a donkey cart, and walked south for two days until they came to European Hospital. The siblings arrived with their IVs still in place.

Rafif, a keen and bright-eyed 13-year-old girl, had a chronic ulcer on her amputated right lower leg, an external fixator on what remained of her right leg and malnutrition that was obvious from her sunken face and recessed eyes. Still, she was without major complications. With access to food, proper wound care and future surgical treatment — none of which is guaranteed, but possible — she could survive. But her brother, 15-year-old Rafiq, was so severely malnourished that he could barely speak. The explosion that ripped his sister’s foot off and killed his mother had also sent shrapnel through his abdomen, tearing his intestines apart. He had open wounds on his buttocks that made it impossible for him to lie on his back or sit upright, and a broken left shoulder that had never healed, leaving it frozen. He screamed in pain with any attempt at examination and was constantly terrified.

We asked the hospital to admit Rafiq for tube feeding — pumping nutrients into his stomach until he grows strong enough to eat on his own — but the hospital lacked the equipment needed for this simple intervention, and the hospitals that had these basic capabilities have been destroyed. We told Rafiq’s family to look for foods that he would eat and to feed him slowly throughout the day, but we knew we were giving them false hope. If he is not evacuated from Gaza he will certainly die, for want of an $11 piece of plastic and a protein shake.

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As we met Palestinian physicians and nurses working at the hospital, it was clear that they, like their patients, were physically and mentally unwell. Giving anyone a pat on the back dropped your hand between two unpadded shoulder blades and onto an exposed spine. In any given room one found staff members with jaundiced eyes, a sure sign of acute hepatitis A infection in such overcrowded conditions.

Many staff had no sense of urgency and often no empathy, even for children. We were initially taken aback by this, But we quickly learned that our Palestinian health care colleagues were among the most traumatized people in the Strip. Like all Palestinians in Gaza, they had lost family members and their homes. Indeed, almost all of them now lived in and around the hospital with their surviving family. Although they all continued working a full schedule, they had not been paid since October 7; health sector salaries are paid by the Ramallah-based Palestinian Authority and are always cut off during Israeli attacks.

Many of the staff were working at the Shifa and Indonesian Hospitals when they were destroyed. They were the lucky ones — they survived the attacks. Since October 7, at least 500 healthcare workers and 278 aid workers have been killed in Gaza. Among them was Dr. Hammam Alloh, a 36-year-old nephrologist at Shifa Hospital who refused to evacuate when Israel besieged the hospital in October.

On October 31, in an interview with Amy Goodman for Democracy Now!, the doctor talked about why he chose to stay: “If I go, who treats my patients? We are not animals. We have the right to receive proper health care. So we can’t just leave.” Eleven days later, Dr. Alloh was killed by an Israeli air strike on his home, along with three of his family members.

Among the medical staff who survived the assaults on the Shifa and Indonesian Hospitals, many were taken from those hospitals by the Israeli military. They all told us a slightly different version of the same horror story: In captivity, they were barely fed, continuously abused and ultimately dumped naked on the side of a road. Many said they were subjected to mock executions and other forms of mistreatment and torture.

After his home was destroyed and his family threatened, European Hospital’s director fled to Egypt, leaving an already overburdened hospital without its longtime leader. This sense of helplessness and disorientation was made worse still by the constant spread of hearsay about kidnappings, troop movements, food shipments, water availability and everything else of importance to survival and safety in a land under siege.

Cut off from the outside world and unable to access reliable information about the forces controlling whether they live or die, eat or starve, stay or run, rumors spread and amplified.

Several staff members told us they were simply waiting to die, and that they hoped Israel would get it over with sooner rather than later.

 

Edited July 22 by Raze

[Rafael Thundercat]

 

 

[Gennadiy1981]

@Rafael Thundercat I like how you quote Jewish history. Well here is another clip how Jews and Arabs peacefully coexisted in Arabic lands, marvelous and beautiful.

 

[Karmadhi]

@Gennadiy1981 Do you like Ben Gvir and Smotricht?

 

[Gennadiy1981]

@Karmadhi it’s nice to hear from you. Well I assume you are not asking based on the video I posted because that has nothing to do with them. But to answer your question, I don’t know much about them and I will not quote them. If you want to know my ideology, I follow that of Rabbi Meir Kahane, of blessed memory. He was a truly righteous person of his time. He went to many extremes but they were justified. It is because of him, that we Soviet Jews were sort of released from former Soviet Union. He went to many extremes here in USA back in seventies against Soviet embassies that kinda shaken the great empire and they started to release us, of course many more joined later on, but he was the pioneer. Because we were known as forgotten Jews. I really cherished that man and even after his death I used to host a public memorial ceremonies for him, he sort of encouraged me to be that proud Jew that I was not. I come from a very assimilated family (of course ethnically Jewish) but knew very little of my heritage, well first as we had to hide who we were and it was not popular. It was thanks to him that got me into Judaism both as race and religion. He showed an example of what a proud Jew was suppose to be, as he quoted many times King David, who held sword in one hand and a Bible in the other. But that should give you an idea of what my ideology is. 
 

Just curious any particular reason you asked about them?

Edited July 23 by Gennadiy1981

[Nivsch]

8 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Gennadiy1981 Do you like Ben Gvir and Smotricht?

 

They are nightmare. 

And roughly 50% of Israelis thinks that too.

[Karmadhi]

11 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

it’s nice to hear from you. Well I assume you are not asking based on the video I posted because that has nothing to do with them. But to answer your question, I don’t know much about them and I will not quote them. If you want to know my ideology, I follow that of Rabbi Meir Kahane, of blessed memory. He was a truly righteous person of his time. He went to many extremes but they were justified. It is because of him, that we Soviet Jews were sort of released from former Soviet Union. He went to many extremes here in USA back in seventies against Soviet embassies that kinda shaken the great empire and they started to release us, of course many more joined later on, but he was the pioneer. Because we were known as forgotten Jews. I really cherished that man and even after his death I used to host a public memorial ceremonies for him, he sort of encouraged me to be that proud Jew that I was not. I come from a very assimilated family (of course ethnically Jewish) but knew very little of my heritage, well first as we had to hide who we were and it was not popular. It was thanks to him that got me into Judaism both as race and religion. He showed an example of what a proud Jew was suppose to be, as he quoted many times King David, who held sword in one hand and a Bible in the other. But that should give you an idea of what my ideology is. 

Ok thank you. It was not linked with the video. I know the guy you sent.

11 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Just curious any particular reason you asked about them?

Yes, because often here you openly say that the land we call Palestinian territories aka the West Bank and Gaza are Israeli land and should become so. Those 2 say the same, they are all for making them part of Israel.

Meanwhile other Israeli politicians tend to be more pro the two state solution which would see those lands becoming part of a Palestinian state.

That is the division I see in Israeli politics.

Also you seem to me to prioritize the Torah over international law, those 2 are the same.

[Karmadhi]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

And roughly 50% of Israelis thinks that too.

Which is the most popular Israeli politican right now? Gantz? Yapid?

Are Yapid and Gantz similar or different?

What about Bennet, I saw he was PM for a short time.

To me Bennet seemed more rightwing than some other politicians.

What do you think of him?

Edited July 23 by Karmadhi

[Bobby_2021]

12 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Gennadiy1981 Do you like Ben Gvir and Smotricht?

These two are freaking demons.

Bibi should be an angel compared to them

Edited July 23 by Bobby_2021

[Gennadiy1981]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

Ok thank you. It was not linked with the video. I know the guy you sent.

Yes, because often here you openly say that the land we call Palestinian territories aka the West Bank and Gaza are Israeli land and should become so. Those 2 say the same, they are all for making them part of Israel.

Meanwhile other Israeli politicians tend to be more pro the two state solution which would see those lands becoming part of a Palestinian state.

That is the division I see in Israeli politics.

Also you seem to me to prioritize the Torah over international law, those 2 are the same.

Did you had a chance to research who Rabbi Meir Kahane was?

Look the truth is, many people here in Israel are against two state solution, some are honest and some play games, and of course there are also who are for, but majority is against. I know most people who are against, will pretend to be politically correct and will give you excuse that they will ok for two state solution and give impossible conditions that will never be met and the result will be same as I am. I call it hypocrisy, but they have a point, this way we can play nice and show the world that we are so innocent and its the other side who is against. Even Benny Gantz and Lapid are really not for Palestine State, they may give all excuses in the world but when push comes to shove, they will do everything against it and you can see it. And dont get fooled, Netanyahu did the same thing in the past, he also voiced for two state solution knowing that it will never happen. See on the political arena it looks like there is big fundamental difference but in reality its all one and same. You know last week there was a vote in Knesset against two state solution and Benny Gantz himself supported it, now Lapid sort of left the room, but again its all political games.

Now I on the other hand, do not play games, I am very honest person and say straight the way it is. I would never support or even personally allow for Palestine to be inside my country. Of course if the want to make it at any other country,. God bless them and I wish they be prosperous and successful. I only wish them well from the bottom of my heart, elsewhere.

Again to conclude, the main consensus is pretty much the same, its just how each party markets their idea. Say Ben Gvir calls it openly, Netanyahu on the side, Gantz hides. I know many Israeli will disagree, but you dont need to be a rocket scientist as if you follow politics you will see that, and by the way i was involved with politics so I know this first hand. And just for your info, you know Ben Gvir and Smotrich are form two different parties who do share some slight political differences, indeed in the past the two parties were at odds with each other for ideological differences and those are kinda big.

[lina]

 

6 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Yes, because often here you openly say that the land we call Palestinian territories aka the West Bank and Gaza are Israeli land and should become so. Those 2 say the same, they are all for making them part of Israel.

Meanwhile other Israeli politicians tend to be more pro the two state solution which would see those lands becoming part of a Palestinian state.

That is the division I see in Israeli politics.

That's not the official standing for most of Israeli politicians anymore, including Benny Gantz who voted in favor and Yair Lapid who skipped it. 

Israel's Knesset votes overwhelmingly against Palestinian statehood as Netanyahu prepares for U.S. visit Palestinians have officially no partners for peace, before it was under the table with the nonstop settlements but now they are upfront. 

It's clear most support the war. The matter of conflict seems to be the case of prioritizing rescuing the hostages first (but they are free to continue the war afterwards). 

[gambler]

8 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Now I on the other hand, do not play games, I am very honest person and say straight the way it is. I would never support or even personally allow for Palestine to be inside my country. Of course if the want to make it at any other country,. God bless them and I wish they be prosperous and successful. I only wish them well from the bottom of my heart, elsewhere.

When he says my country he is including the West bank and Gaza. And there it is. There is no justice for the Palestinians in this conflict because it's simply "my land" and you need to get out. Doesn't matter if there was no resistance, no anti-semitism, etc. because if Palestinians were all incorporated from day one, there would be no room today to keep bringing Jews from the outside because of overpopulation. So what you would've had is a majority Muslim country until the very end, which doesn't align with the objectives of a Zionist project; which is to have Jews have a state they can go to as their own. So it all boils down to "you need to leave because it's our land". Everything else was, and has always been, just theatrics. 

Edited July 23 by gambler

[Gennadiy1981]

@gambler are you asking or you are stating? But I can agree with you for the most of the statement. And the difference with me and most Israelis is that I cut on theater, I go straight for the answer.

I had a friend awhile back and he was from a liberal camp, he believed in the same ideology as I do, but he always argued with me that we need to make theater, to show the world that we strive for peace, we are willing to give up territories, but at the same time set precedence that Arabs would never accept. I never liked that approach, I am a straight shooter, I like to say things they way they are and not thinking of one, speaking of the other and performing the third. Many say that I am wrong and I will to argue which approach is right or wrong. But in my gut feeling, it’s always best to be honest and sincere straight up. I am a firm believer that honesty can get you far and more respect. 

[Karmadhi]

20 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

I had a friend awhile back and he was from a liberal camp, he believed in the same ideology as I do, but he always argued with me that we need to make theater, to show the world that we strive for peace, we are willing to give up territories, but at the same time set precedence that Arabs would never accept. I never liked that approach, I am a straight shooter, I like to say things they way they are and not thinking of one, speaking of the other and performing the third. Many say that I am wrong and I will to argue which approach is right or wrong. But in my gut feeling, it’s always best to be honest and sincere straight up. I am a firm believer that honesty can get you far and more respect. 

So when Leo says that Israelis want land more than peace than he is correct. Thank you for being honest.

I hope you realize that attitude will lead to more terrorist attacks and more hatred towards Israelis.

If that is a price you are willing to pay, then ok.

I already have given you my opinion on this matter regarding where I think the land belongs so I will not waste time on it here again. I just wanted to verify what Leo has said here from day 1.

 

9 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Did you had a chance to research who Rabbi Meir Kahane was?

 

I will a bit later.

 

9 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Look the truth is, many people here in Israel are against two state solution, some are honest and some play games, and of course there are also who are for, but majority is against. I know most people who are against, will pretend to be politically correct and will give you excuse that they will ok for two state solution and give impossible conditions that will never be met and the result will be same as I am. I call it hypocrisy, but they have a point, this way we can play nice and show the world that we are so innocent and its the other side who is against. Even Benny Gantz and Lapid are really not for Palestine State, they may give all excuses in the world but when push comes to shove, they will do everything against it and you can see it. And dont get fooled, Netanyahu did the same thing in the past, he also voiced for two state solution knowing that it will never happen. See on the political arena it looks like there is big fundamental difference but in reality its all one and same. You know last week there was a vote in Knesset against two state solution and Benny Gantz himself supported it, now Lapid sort of left the room, but again its all political games.

Now I on the other hand, do not play games, I am very honest person and say straight the way it is. I would never support or even personally allow for Palestine to be inside my country. Of course if the want to make it at any other country,. God bless them and I wish they be prosperous and successful. I only wish them well from the bottom of my heart, elsewhere.

Again to conclude, the main consensus is pretty much the same, its just how each party markets their idea. Say Ben Gvir calls it openly, Netanyahu on the side, Gantz hides. I know many Israeli will disagree, but you dont need to be a rocket scientist as if you follow politics you will see that, and by the way i was involved with politics so I know this first hand. And just for your info, you know Ben Gvir and Smotrich are form two different parties who do share some slight political differences, indeed in the past the two parties were at odds with each other for ideological differences and those are kinda big.

Ok thank you, what you shared is very interesting.

I thought that they were pro two state until the Hamas attack.

I can imagine now that nobody will be in favour of it for obvious reasons.

So when I talked for pro two state, i meant more for the pre October situation.

But I am not very familiar with politics there so I will take what you said into account.

It does make a lot of sense to be honest what you say.

I obviously do not agree with it, but it is good to say stuff as it is other than sugar coat it.

You remind me of some pro Russians I know who say Ukraine should be all Russia and openly say it.

For some reason I find transparency easier to deal with.

Just one question.

I know that there were the Oslo accords in the late 90s and also Israel forced settlers go leave Gaza in 2005.

The people in charge that did these things, they were somewhat pro two state right?

Or am I missing something?

Edited July 24 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

4 hours ago, lina said:

That's not the official standing for most of Israeli politicians anymore, including Benny Gantz who voted in favor and Yair Lapid who skipped it. 

Israel's Knesset votes overwhelmingly against Palestinian statehood as Netanyahu prepares for U.S. visit Palestinians have officially no partners for peace, before it was under the table with the nonstop settlements but now they are upfront. 

It's clear most support the war. The matter of conflict seems to be the case of prioritizing rescuing the hostages first (but they are free to continue the war afterwards). 

I was referring to more about pre October situation.

With the war now, I do not except most Israelis to support two state.

[Gennadiy1981]

10 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

So when Leo says that Israelis want land more than peace than he is correct. Thank you for being honest.

I hope you realize that attitude will lead to more terrorist attacks and more hatred towards Israelis.

If that is a price you are willing to pay, then ok.

I already have given you my opinion on this matter regarding where I think the land belongs so I will not waste time on it here again. I just wanted to verify what Leo has said here from day 1.

 

I will a bit later.

 

Ok thank you, what you shared is very interesting.

I thought that they were pro two state until the Hamas attack.

I can imagine now that nobody will be in favour of it for obvious reasons.

So when I talked for pro two state, i meant more for the pre October situation.

But I am not very familiar with politics there so I will take what you said into account.

It does make a lot of sense to be honest what you say.

I obviously do not agree with it, but it is good to say stuff as it is other than sugar coat it.

You remind me of some pro Russians I know who say Ukraine should be all Russia and openly say it.

For some reason I find transparency easier to deal with.

Just one question.

I know that there were the Oslo accords in the late 90s and also Israel forced settlers go leave Gaza in 2005.

The people in charge that did these things, they were somewhat pro two state right?

Or am I missing something?

Thank you for the compliment. I know many will disagree with me and say that I am of an opinion of minority. But at the end of the day, the results prove otherwise. And that’s fine, I can be looked down upon but I rather stay honest to my belief. I am one of those who think, say and do the same. Some people say cut theater, I saw cut the BS, lol. 
 

To answer some of your points. So to start with Leo that we care of more Land than people, that’s not necessarily true. As you also stated prior that what you guys call West Bank is the heartland of Israel, that actually were most of the biblical Israel has occurred so that land is near and dear to us. Also we are realistic and we know that it’s not a land question but to totally eliminate us as they will not accept any shadow of Israel of any size. And they had West Bank before 67, what bothered them before? It was Tel Aviv and Haifa and etc, and once they attack and loose then they can’t get it back. We do value people more than land, indeed we are winning to go extra mile to save one of ours no matter where they are. But the land is for protection to guarantee our survival. 
 

It’s interesting that you bring the Gaza expulsion of 2005, no believe it or not it was back then Ariel Sharon who was I would say as right wing as you would call Ben Gvir and he was vehemently against two state solutions. Of course he did a grave mistake. I was totally against it back then and because of that I actually got involved in activism, if not for it, I would probably just stayed home, f***ed chicks and smoked weed, lol. See honesty is important. There was a talk that Ariel Sharon messed up big time with his son by opening casino and not paying taxes and his son did other schematics with US. There was a theory that he had to please Bush and did this unilateral withdrawal, his son eventually did go to jail.

The Oslo was a bit diffent. Many people who speak of Oslo don’t really know the full Oslo and they don’t bother reading it as just catching phrases. The also accords did not spoke of Palestinian state but rather of autonomy. Many people don’t know but they need to at least read the encyclopedia. The two state came much later. And even though I personally don’t like to bring dirt from home, the so called left leaning politicians always threw a catch in any negotiation to make it difficult to accept while on the contrary it was mostly the right wing politicians who ended up more for land give away. Like Menachem Begin who gave the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt and few more. Again I am not saying one party is better than the other but pointing out the hidden gems that are often missed. 

As far as Russia and Ukraine goes, I am not picking any sides there. Don’t forget I was born in Ukraine (but could not wait to leave) and I also visited Russia. I can say few things but it’s best to refrain from using comments that are not productive and that would be classified as low conscious politics. I don’t have anything better to say. But to give credit where credit is due, is that Soviet Union was majorly responsible to defeat Nazis, that something I cannot take away.  

And to answer one last item for which you did not ask me a question but I will throw it out there. I seem to you like some kind of religious fanatic. As I told you I used to be an orthodox, but even the temples that I still go to, people there call me names as as “the one who turned away from Bible”, “God hater”, “person whose heart is vacant of Bible”  “Bible desecrator”. So you can imagine those people are way more deeper than I am or ever can be. Actually one person that I know stopped speaking to me recently as he tells me that my respect for Bible is none, then he shall have no respect for me.

Of course when I say Bible I mean Torah but it’s easier for most people to understand on this forum.

Hope I explained to you. 

[Raze]

14 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

 

Now I on the other hand, do not play games, I am very honest person and say straight the way it is. I would never support or even personally allow for Palestine to be inside my country. Of course if the want to make it at any other country,. God bless them and I wish they be prosperous and successful. I only wish them well from the bottom of my heart, elsewhere.

So you, someone who was not born there, have the right to expel the millions of Palestinians who not only were born there but can trace their entire family tree from being born there, because the Bible says that Jews lived in that area thousands of years ago?

Edited July 24 by Raze

[zazen]

4 hours ago, Raze said:

So you, someone who was not born there, have the right to expel the millions of Palestinians who not only were born there but can trace their entire family tree from being born there, because the Bible says that Jews lived in that area thousands of years ago?

Thats the problem, they think they have the right to land, when international law says they don't - the same international laws their Western sugar daddies set up. The West can't claim to be the beacon of democracy and rule of law while supporting a state that's making a mockery of both.

[zazen]

Just now, zazen said:

Thats the problem, they think they have the right to land, when international law says they don't - the same international laws their Western sugar daddies set up. The West can't claim to be the beacon of democracy and rule of law while supporting a state that's making a mockery of both.

While Netenyahu is about to address Congress in USA, China has facilitated 14 Palestinian factions including Hamas and Fatah to sign a agreement of unity to end divisions and pave the way for postwar governance - https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/23/china/hamas-fatah-palestinian-factions-beijing-intl-hnk/index.html

UN top court says Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories is illegal  - 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo#:~:text=The International Court of Justice,Strip as soon as possible.

Friday's international court of justice (ICJ) ruling was a wholesale repudiation of Israel’s legal justifications for its 57-year (and counting) occupation of Palestinian territory - 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/22/the-icj-has-demolished-israels-claims-that-it-is-not-occupying-palestinian-territories

"Although the finding was hidden in legalese, the court ruled that Israel has imposed a regime of apartheid in the occupied Palestinian territory by virtue of its systematic discrimination against Palestinian residents. The A-word has been anathema in official Washington circles, despite detailed reports finding apartheid by Human Rights Watch and every other serious human rights organization to have addressed the issue.''

''Lets remember that the country the West has protected, cherished, and idolised most religiously in all its years of existence, censoring and persecuting its own citizens for in the process is an apartheid state committing a century of ethnic cleansing and occupation and a current 10-month long live streamed destruction campaign that has been ruled as a plausible genocide. ''

[Raze]

https://truthout.org/articles/oxfam-israel-has-reduced-water-access-in-gaza-by-94-percent-since-october/

 

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Oxfam: Israel Has Reduced Water Access in Gaza by 94 Percent Since October

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-811356

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Hostages Alex Dancyg, Yagev Buchshtab confirmed dead, IDF likely at fault

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-03/ty-article/israeli-army-four-hostages-taken-alive-to-gaza-were-killed-possibly-by-idf-fire/0000018f-dede-db27-ab9f-dfff16f70000

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Israeli Army: Four Hostages Taken Alive to Gaza Were Killed, Possibly by IDF Fire

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-22/ty-article/.premium/idf-left-palestinian-with-down-syndrome-to-die-after-dog-attack-in-gaza-home/00000190-d5e5-dbe5-a7fa-f7ff225b0000
 

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Israeli Army Left Palestinian With Down Syndrome to Die After Dog Attack in Gaza Home

 

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Bhar, 24, was an autistic man who also had Down syndrome. His family told the BBC and other news outlets last week that their home was stormed by soldiers on July 3, after a week of heavy fighting in the area, and that the soldiers aimed their rifles and weapons at them. Amid the chaos, Bhar thought the dog was playing with him. He patted the animal's head and said, "Leave me alone, habibi," even as the dog tore at his hand and continued to attack him.

Nabila Ahmed Bhar, Mohammed's mother, told the BBC and Andalou News Agency that as her son's arm was bleeding heavily, some of the soldiers took him to another room, seemingly to assess his wounds and treat him. The family was forcibly evicted from the home a few hours later, with Mohammed still in the next room. When they were finally able to return to their home a week later, they found him in the room, dead, with wounds that had barely been treated.