Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Nivsch]

On 17.7.2024 at 2:11 PM, Leo Gura said:

You could simply go to Google and type: "Israeli lies and propaganda about Gaza", if you dare.

Ok I did it. Part of what I read is reasonable and I agree with, and part of that doubt or cancel basic things the other side did. Some of that I even saw myself in social media or it was testified that is very transparent to me there is a denial here. I will keep looking but it is clear from reading those articles that the propaganda goes both ways.

Edited July 18 by Nivsch

[Gennadiy1981]

On 7/16/2024 at 8:26 PM, Raze said:

I literally posted a video taken from a reporter in Gaza and a article from a humans rights group.

You aren’t disproving anything I post, you just posted irrelevant articles about fake content. Yes some content is fake, that doesn’t mean what I post is.

Last time you accused me of BS it was over a passage from one of the most famous Israeli historians book.

in developing events there is fake information, but that doesn’t mean I’m lying if I post it, if it’s fake point it out to me.

You said you are ok with CNN and NYT as sources

so what about this?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-teiman-detention-whistleblowers-intl-cmd/index.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/06/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-detention-base.html
 

 

Was busy and didn’t get a chance to read. I sent links to few articles by major newspapers, but there are tons of them including by the way of Al Jaazeera that I was surprised, they all say that 90-95% of twitter posts are fake, not real, people make them up. Anyone can make any posts, I can make a post that I was the one who created actualized.org and Leo is my student, and no one will erase it. This is to the point of being ridiculous. 

Ok I saw your CNN article but that is not a whistleblower. There are a lot of people who can claim anything, like sighting a Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Aliens, I even heard someone recently saw Stalin (I think that’s a good one) but if you do not have proof then it’s all baloney. Through out time there were whistleblowers for different topics but they had proof with them, like form US regulatory agencies there is always a whisky b,owner pops up actually Al ost one a year and now more, they bring documents, photos, evidence. The article just speaks of someone anonymous who saw something, it has no basis. If you were a guard, then have some photos, recordings. That’s why the basis are not factual and pretty much no one in the mainstream or congress gives a F*** about it, because it is fake.

And to bring a point about someone cutting hand, for your info by the way, there was one case reported by Israeli newspaper, it was a Hamas terrorist who was wounded badly and was in Israeli jail and he had Gangrene and doctors said to save his life they had to amputate, so this was the article.

Now back to twitter, I personally don’t even believe the 5% true, maybe like Israeli soldier saw a girl and felt bad and gave her French fires but deliberately didnt give her ketchup, or in Israeli jails they were serving salad but didn’t give dressing with it and some like that lines.

[Nivsch]

And then those gazans were stoned and killed. Cruelty to their own people just as to Israelis (I blurred it if you want to see enter the link). hamas is a bloodthirsty gang to just ANYONE they don't like.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C9HrEXgo1zZ/?igsh=b3M1MGlkYXBpNHNi

Edited July 19 by Nivsch

[Raze]

Quote

Polio Virus Found As Flies And Mosquitoes Feast On Gaza's Waste

https://www.barrons.com/news/flies-and-mosquitoes-feast-on-gaza-s-waste-crisis-facb97d0

Quote

Pax, a Dutch activist group, said in a new study that "months of continuous bombing and Israel's fuel blockade have decimated" Gaza's outdated waste collection system.

"Local authorities report that the Israeli Defense Forces are preventing access to Gaza's three official landfills."

Quote

Polio has been detected in samples of sewage that is starting to take over Gaza in the grip of a devastating war, health authorities in the Hamas-run territory and Israel said Thursday.

The announcement came after a European activist group released a report saying the Gaza Strip is "drowning" in hundreds of thousands of tonnes of human waste and rubble from the Israel-Hamas war.

The Gaza ministry said thousands of people in crowded tent cities of war-displaced were now at risk of contracting the highly infectious disease, which can cause deformities and paralysis.

Sewage now flows between the tents used by tens of thousands of displaced people across Gaza and the presence of poliovirus "marks a new health disaster," the ministry said.

Amid rising summer temperatures, Umm Nahed Abu Shar is already living a health nightmare in her family's tent in Deir el-Balah, central Gaza. City authorities said this week that waste water treatment stations had been turned off due to a lack of fuel.

"The heat, the diseases, the flies, the mosquitoes and their hissing, it all hurts us," the 45-year-old mother told AFP.

"We don't sleep at night because of the smell of sewage. My children do not sleep because they are always ill with something spread by the waste."

 

Quote

Israeli PM blocks hospital for sick Gaza children in Israel

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2j3ej80dnno
 

Quote

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has blocked plans for a field hospital in Israel to treat sick and injured children from Gaza, according to reports.

The site was announced earlier this week by Defence Minister Yoav Gallant as a temporary measure to provide treatment while the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt remains closed to civilians. 

On Thursday, the prime minister's office said he had not approved a hospital on Israeli territory and that it would not go ahead.

 

Edited July 19 by Raze

[Nivsch]

A knesset member of Lapid's "There Is a Future" centrist opposition party, Merav Cohen (translated)

Edited July 19 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

A knesset member of the "Democrats" opposition party, Merav Michaeli

Edited July 19 by Nivsch

[Gennadiy1981]

@Nivsch I am not really sure what you are trying to prove with this post or say anything with it. Look it’s so much easy to criticize the current government. That takes no brain, but I am sure if they would have been in over they would have been doing exactly same thing. Look for the past twenty years no matter what government was, the policy is same so when one say I would do better it’s just a nonsense.

So tell me, what would they do better, what steps would they do? Give me specifics. Would they make a deal with Hamas? Would they allow them to come back to power?

You know it’s like any politician before election promises that he will be different and will make life Better but at the end of the day it’s all same. As I said it’s nice to throw points out there when you are not behind of the wheel of the country. Believe me in the past I used the think like you did, and then I had my share in politics and believe me once you get involved you wil totally understand how difficult in general is to change status quo.

[Nivsch]

@Gennadiy1981 I disagree. They have totally different values and worldview. No wonder people are afraid of civil war in Israel. Just to look on the dynamic here during the year before the war will give you the answer.

Edited July 19 by Nivsch

[Gennadiy1981]

53 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Gennadiy1981 I disagree. They have totally different values and worldview. No wonder people are afraid of civil war in Israel. Just to look on the dynamic here during the year before the war will give you the answer.

I think we’re speaking of two different things, you are talking about the civil life in Israel, but the post you posted earlier speaks about of ending the war. Again, what do they offer to end the war, they criticize nothing current government for prolonging the war, but none of them have any answer, or I would say, probably will do the same thing if they would be in power. I know those individuals and they are in the center so they’re not much different. All they do is speak to get hostages back, but they do not offer any solutions, it’s just empty words. Being in politics, I learned that 90% are just empty words to play on peoples feelings, so they get elected and once they’re in the office, they do the same thing. Fine, convince me otherwise, tell me what steps they have to end the war and it’s not just once they get elected, all of a sudden, miraculously, the world will stop and hostages will be back, what are the concrete steps they speak off.

[Nivsch]

@Gennadiy1981 A Worldview and succeeding to implement this worldview are two different things. But the worldviews of this government and the center-left sector are very different.

[Gennadiy1981]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

@Gennadiy1981 A Worldview and succeeding to implement this worldview are two different things. But the worldviews of this government and the center-left sector are very different.

That’s fine and I was not arguing with you on that, I get it there can be different ideologies, but what bothering me and especially since you posted Meirav Cohen, I know those characters, they beat their chest and say that they would be successful in ending this conflict and make the country a better place, but in reality they are just balloons filed with hot air. They have no other alternatives, they have no sets or goals how to win this war. They claim that they can bring hostages home but have no real solutions. That’s all what I wanted to say, they have no step plan or anything except being vocal. You keep posting those posters but it’s to no avail and it seems like you posting for the heck of posting, similar like @Raze but he deliberately looking for anti Israel to make himself happy. But those post that you post it’s like shooting blank. Look everyone wants to bring hostages home (maybe except @Raze) but in my opinion criticizing someone for doing bad job and when you have no plan, is silly to me.

But switching then topic, you mentioned about lifestyle in Israel, you know I was contemplating on it, I really think the way country is running is fine. Politicians come and go but people are the one who make the country they way it is. What would you different if you were say prime minister for the country and let’s take to the side the war and hostages, that’s temporary and it will be gone soon, but for the country in general. I mean look you can’t ban religious people and you can’t ban gay people, they are all part of Klal, Nationhood. Like take the society in general, how would you change the society or what would you add or take away from it. Yes I am very well aware of internal struggle that as you mentioned could have ended in civil war, though I personally don’t think that extreme, but see the politics to me look very similar like in USA, democrats vs Republicans, it’s all bogus.

Actually I remember of one event, maybe twenty years ago, I went one time to political dinner and there next to buffet table I personally met Curtis Sliwa and Kuby, they had a radial talk show, one was a hardcore republican and another hardcore democrat and I listened to the show just for fun, they were arguing and cursing each other and oh boy, I thought how can they not kill each other. And then I am at this dinner and I see both of them friendly chatting. I come to them and say, guys you are arch enemies I am not believe ungrateful my eyes, to which one of them replied, “you know we are doing that for a show and half of the stuff we say we don’t believe” and by the way both were e ray tipsy to say the least. My point exactly, politicians beat their chest for publicity.

[Raze]

19 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

@RazeLook everyone wants to bring hostages home (maybe except @Raze) but in my opinion criticizing someone for doing bad job and when you have no plan, is silly to me.

I’ve been calling for a ceasefire from day 1, and from day 1 Hamas said they’d return the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire.

You and the pro Israeli’s here have been saying the war should continue, this means you are prioritizing a different goal than getting the hostages back, not me.

[Gennadiy1981]

33 minutes ago, Raze said:

I’ve been calling for a ceasefire from day 1, and from day 1 Hamas said they’d return the hostages in exchange for a ceasefire.

You and the pro Israeli’s here have been saying the war should continue, this means you are prioritizing a different goal than getting the hostages back, not me.

If it was that simple it would have been done that way, but it’s not. Really? Hamas would just give hostages back? So you are saying we should have come to them and ask for hostages back and they would just give back? They have been planning this operation for two years and they would just give back like this? You are either joking or being naive. They wanted a war, they wanted Israel to go inside, it was their plan all along. 

[Raze]

10 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

If it was that simple it would have been done that way, but it’s not. Really? Hamas would just give hostages back? So you are saying we should have come to them and ask for hostages back and they would just give back? They have been planning this operation for two years and they would just give back like this? You are either joking or being naive. They wanted a war, they wanted Israel to go inside, it was their plan all along. 

1) they gave back half the hostages during a temporary ceasefire 

2) so you rather Israel fall into their trap?

[Gennadiy1981]

1 hour ago, Raze said:

1) they gave back half the hostages during a temporary ceasefire 

2) so you rather Israel fall into their trap?

It’s very hard to speak after events passed by. I don’t think it would have been so simple as you say, and also the Hamas didn’t go all the way to end it that simple. And I don’t know if their goal failed or maybe succeeded. Maybe it was all along to get Israel into war and show to the world that they are being targeted. I don’t know it’s very hard to say, that info I don’t have so we can only speculate. 

Look the bottom line no one wants war, people die in war and it is the last resort. If it was started then other options were expunged. 

[Raze]

22 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

It’s very hard to speak after events passed by. I don’t think it would have been so simple as you say, and also the Hamas didn’t go all the way to end it that simple. And I don’t know if their goal failed or maybe succeeded. Maybe it was all along to get Israel into war and show to the world that they are being targeted. I don’t know it’s very hard to say, that info I don’t have so we can only speculate. 

Look the bottom line no one wants war, people die in war and it is the last resort. If it was started then other options were expunged. 

If Israel agreed to do the hostage deal and Hamas reneged, Israel can claim hamas didn’t follow through and go to war but this time with less backlash.

Israel did not try any other option, they just went to war.

[Gennadiy1981]

What do you mean, they had to rescue people. It’s not like another country police with court system placed them in jail but a band of actually terrorist captured them. Not much choices when you are placed in such situation. I would argue that any other country would have done the same. Indeed show me a similar case where things didn’t happen that way.

[Raze]

1 minute ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

What do you mean, they had to rescue people. It’s not like another country police with court system placed them in jail but a band of actually terrorist captured them. Not much choices when you are placed in such situation. I would argue that any other country would have done the same. Indeed show me a similar case where things didn’t happen that way.

Again, if they prioritized rescuing the hostages above all else they would have at least attempted to negotiate a full hostage deal which could rescue all the hostages instantly. Clearly they aren’t unable to as they negotiated a partial one and got half the hostages back.

The bombing campaign after nearly a year rescued just 7 and killed at least 3-9. That’s not a efficient way to rescue people in this scenario.

[BlessedLion]

Israel is a horrible country. They make Trumpsters look like angels 

[Karmadhi]

The more I see this war, the more I think that the world should dis own Israel and leave them alone against the Arabs unless they start respecting international laws.

Today the ICJ ruled that the Occupation of the Palestinian territories as illegal, yet they will not change their action.

Coercion is needed.

Otherwise they will never learn.

It is like a country with corrupt politicans, as long as there is no mechanism to imprison them for corruption then they will keep stealing.

I cannot even blame Israel fully at this point, I blame the rest of the "civilized world" for allowing these devils to keep doing what they do. A devil will not be reformed unless he is faced the consequences of his devilry.

You can say that the October attacks were Israel facing the consequences of their policies, but they will never admit it. And that also broke international laws, so it cannot be called a proper response to devilry.

A proper response would be sanctions, cutting all ties and basically being disowned.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo

 

Edited July 20 by Karmadhi