Israel / Palestine News Thread

[hundreth]

3 hours ago, Raze said:

 

 

Over time these claims get more and more preposterous. Now the IDF is beating civilians to death with hammers? 

@Gennadiy1981 any idea if there's any validity to claims like this?

[Raze]

13 minutes ago, hundreth said:

Over time these claims get more and more preposterous. Now the IDF is beating civilians to death with hammers? 

@Gennadiy1981 any idea if there's any validity to claims like this?

It’s from here

https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6322/Gaza:-Israeli-army-storms-UNRWA-schools-and-kills-more-civilians-in-Jabalia

maybe there is more to it, it’s all a developing story.

But I wouldn’t be surprised as there have been many reports of Israel using torture

 

[Hatfort]

It's awful how we keep hearing so much terror. More bombing of schools, a father crying the loss of his son beaten with hammers... Just because Zionists want to replace the civilian people from a land with theirs, like they've been doing since their project in Palestine started, decades ago.

 

[Gennadiy1981]

14 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Good points but as opposed to the Gaza withdrawal, this will be done with a black-on-white treaty. If they violate their part of the treaty, we will be back at war. Superpowers like the US and China can also sign into the treaty to safeguard the terms for both sides. Basically Palestinians will lose the right to their state if they use it for the purpose of hostility, all this should be clearly defined in the treaty. 

The semantics and technical details of what constitutes a proper state state doesn't matter much. Most countries in the world already consider Palestine a state. They will be a state, just with a few compromises to accommodate the legitimate concerns of the Israelis. 

So I would have to politely disagree with you on that. You need to differentiate the two very big points. There is an emotional side to it where people speak and argue and cry and whatever you can think of and swear and curse and post God knows what with fake info and imaginary info and partial info, that’s one thing. Now then there is a legal side to it. Let’s focus more on that one as at the end of the day that what matters the most and all Joann emotions get pushed to antler cause. 
 

As of now Palestine is not a country, it has no borders. Once a country is being deifnayely with borders or autonomous republic then legally it will exist until only if its citizens voluntarily want to join to another country, again referendum and there are a lot of nuances in it. If the country day becomes volatile and problematic and the UN sees it such that way, it will never disperse such country but rather will place its own military until elections will be held, and only in issuance if that country does not have a leadership, meaning anarchy that spills into another country. Dictator or even a newly appoint King does not count. There are legal ways for occupation of another country but that has to be temporary only. 
 

You can see how complex that situation can be.once the state is formed and don’t be fooled you would not be able to easily destroy it. Unless there will be a total world anarchy but that’s a different story. 
 

See the idea is not to get to such point, especially if the end result will be the same and deep down in your guts you know how that will happen. I get it, it’s nice to be a Mr. nice guy and show the world that we are willing to give a chance, and etc and feel good about it and then tell the world look we did all we could. But then again, who would tell Sharon that for twenty years the rockets were constantly fall on Nahal Oz, Sderot and etc.

 

i want to conclude with one old Jewish story that has been told from generations not generation. Once upon a time a messenger came to king and brought a letter that had a really bad news. To which the king go so upset that he ordered the messenger to eat that letter. The messenger said anything but the paper, so the king ordered to being spoiled fish. The messenger took a bite and a two, threw up and begged for anything esle but not spoiled animal products. The next was rotten grapes. He tried but they were so disgusting that eventually he took that message paper and gladly ate it.

So… if he ate that paper to begin with, he would not needed to go through hell with other things and spare himself some health issues.

[Gennadiy1981]

2 hours ago, hundreth said:

Over time these claims get more and more preposterous. Now the IDF is beating civilians to death with hammers? 

@Gennadiy1981 any idea if there's any validity to claims like this?

Are you serious, you are even doubting that? No way. About 90%-95% are fake news on Twitter, see all major newspapers wrote about it, like all major newspapers, I will paste few below. If that was true, the UN would invade Israel or US would cut all ties with it.

I think you missed but some pages ago I said that @Raze he probably gets orgasms just placing them on and on and probably some perverted pleasure as well. It’s subconscious perversion where a person feels great watching but on a conscious level feels bad. That’s why I stopped even replying. I think it would be imperative if there will be a thread only for him to post and read and no one else allowed to view or comment, only him and he can even make up articles and painting and stories that IDF in reality is aliens working to abduct all humans but Gazans are only a test subject and they all want to covert them to octopus like monsters or something along those lines. 
 

And people call me low development stage here. See I may even be at a tier 2 spiral.

 

https://apnews.com/article/twitter-x-hamas-israel-war-elon-musk-misinformation-5e344fc9134741d4f5dc17ed04262940

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/israel-hamas-misinformation-twitter-explained-1234854331/

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattnovak/2023/10/07/7-viral-tweets-about-the-israel-gaza-conflict-that-are-actually-fake/

[Vrubel]

45 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

So I would have to politely disagree with you on that. You need to differentiate the two very big points. There is an emotional side to it where people speak and argue and cry and whatever you can think of and swear and curse and post God knows what with fake info and imaginary info and partial info, that’s one thing. Now then there is a legal side to it. Let’s focus more on that one as at the end of the day that what matters the most and all Joann emotions get pushed to antler cause. 
 

As of now Palestine is not a country, it has no borders. Once a country is being deifnayely with borders or autonomous republic then legally it will exist until only if its citizens voluntarily want to join to another country, again referendum and there are a lot of nuances in it. If the country day becomes volatile and problematic and the UN sees it such that way, it will never disperse such country but rather will place its own military until elections will be held, and only in issuance if that country does not have a leadership, meaning anarchy that spills into another country. Dictator or even a newly appoint King does not count. There are legal ways for occupation of another country but that has to be temporary only. 
 

You can see how complex that situation can be.once the state is formed and don’t be fooled you would not be able to easily destroy it. Unless there will be a total world anarchy but that’s a different story. 
 

See the idea is not to get to such point, especially if the end result will be the same and deep down in your guts you know how that will happen. I get it, it’s nice to be a Mr. nice guy and show the world that we are willing to give a chance, and etc and feel good about it and then tell the world look we did all we could. But then again, who would tell Sharon that for twenty years the rockets were constantly fall on Nahal Oz, Sderot and etc.

 

i want to conclude with one old Jewish story that has been told from generations not generation. Once upon a time a messenger came to king and brought a letter that had a really bad news. To which the king go so upset that he ordered the messenger to eat that letter. The messenger said anything but the paper, so the king ordered to being spoiled fish. The messenger took a bite and a two, threw up and begged for anything esle but not spoiled animal products. The next was rotten grapes. He tried but they were so disgusting that eventually he took that message paper and gladly ate it.

So… if he ate that paper to begin with, he would not needed to go through hell with other things and spare himself some health issues.

I get your point but I still stand by my previous post. Maybe you're right that now is not the time for a two-state solution. Let's see how this war and the aftermath will unfold. But in principle, a Palestinian state is not an issue for me. If it will have a Jewish minority this also should satisfy the Jewish desire to live in their biblical heartland. 

Sharon withdrew from Gaza because it was a demographic time bomb that would swallow up those settlements. Of course, the tragedy was that directly after the withdrawal Hamas came to power and began attacking Israel and bringing poverty, isolation and war to the Gazans and terrorism to Israel. 
 

Edited July 16 by Vrubel

[Karmadhi]

7 hours ago, hundreth said:

Over time these claims get more and more preposterous. Now the IDF is beating civilians to death with hammers? 

 

Yet you believe Hamas put babies in oven and decapitated people and other stuff.

Why so? There is 0 proof of any of those.

Yet you doubt IDF being equally barbaric?

At this point they got more proof than Hamas.

If you got proof please send me.

I looked for hours and all the proof I found was some go pro videos of people getting shot with a gun.

Also some people beaten and cases of rape.

No beheadings, no burnings.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz9drj14e0lo

Meanwhile here you have proof of IDF barbarism.

 

Edited July 17 by Karmadhi

[Raze]

1 hour ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Are you serious, you are even doubting that? No way. About 90%-95% are fake news on Twitter, see all major newspapers wrote about it, like all major newspapers, I will paste few below. If that was true, the UN would invade Israel or US would cut all ties with it.

I think you missed but some pages ago I said that @Raze he probably gets orgasms just placing them on and on and probably some perverted pleasure as well. It’s subconscious perversion where a person feels great watching but on a conscious level feels bad. That’s why I stopped even replying. I think it would be imperative if there will be a thread only for him to post and read and no one else allowed to view or comment, only him and he can even make up articles and painting and stories that IDF in reality is aliens working to abduct all humans but Gazans are only a test subject and they all want to covert them to octopus like monsters or something along those lines. 
 

 

I literally posted a video taken from a reporter in Gaza and a article from a humans rights group.

You aren’t disproving anything I post, you just posted irrelevant articles about fake content. Yes some content is fake, that doesn’t mean what I post is.

Last time you accused me of BS it was over a passage from one of the most famous Israeli historians book.

 

in developing events there is fake information, but that doesn’t mean I’m lying if I post it, if it’s fake point it out to me.

You said you are ok with CNN and NYT as sources

so what about this?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-teiman-detention-whistleblowers-intl-cmd/index.html

Quote

They paint a picture of a facility where doctors sometimes amputated prisoners’ limbs due to injuries sustained from constant handcuffing; of medical procedures sometimes performed by underqualified medics earning it a reputation for being “a paradise for interns”; and where the air is filled with the smell of neglected wounds left to rot.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/06/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-detention-base.html
 

Quote

report detailed an interview that gave a similar account. It cited a 41-year-old detainee who said that interrogators “made me sit on something like a hot metal stick and it felt like fire,” and also said that another detainee “died after they put the electric stick up” his anus.

Mr. al-Hamlawi recalled being forced to sit in a chair wired with electricity. He said he was shocked so often that, after initially urinating uncontrollably, he then stopped urinating for several days. Mr. al-Hamlawi said he, too, had been forced to wear nothing but a diaper, to stop him from soiling the floor.

Ibrahim Shaheen, 38, a truck driver detained in early December for nearly three months, said he was shocked roughly half a dozen times while sitting in a chair. Officers accused him of concealing information about the location of dead hostages, Mr. Shaheen said.

Mr. Bakr also said he was forced to sit in chair wired with electricity, sending a current pulsing through his body that made him pass out.

Mr. al-Hamlawi, the senior nurse, said a female officer had ordered two soldiers to lift him up and press his rectum against a metal stick that was fixed to the ground. Mr. al-Hamlawi said the stick penetrated his rectum for roughly five seconds, causing it to bleed and leaving him with “unbearable pain.”

 

Edited July 17 by Raze

[Karmadhi]

@Vrubel I remember you used to call out Wagner for smashing someone s head with a hammer yet you stay silent when IDF beat up an innocent man with hammer. Raze sent the clip.

IDF makes Wagner look soft these days.

[Vrubel]

@Karmadhi Dude stop doubling down on your ignorance. What you do is just an age-old smear campaign and dirty tricks like a brainwashed teenage internet troll. You don't give a fuck about making honest, nuanced or crucial distinctions. You're part of the problem and the reason why I will always firmly defend Israel and stand for her truth. 

I had a nice run on this thread but from now on, I will block the aggressively ignorant people and mostly use it as a platform to interact with my Israeli friends here. 

[gambler]

2 hours ago, Vrubel said:

@Karmadhi Dude stop doubling down on your ignorance. What you do is just an age-old smear campaign and dirty tricks like a brainwashed teenage internet troll. You don't give a fuck about making honest, nuanced or crucial distinctions. You're part of the problem and the reason why I will always firmly defend Israel and stand for her truth. 

I had a nice run on this thread but from now on, I will block the aggressively ignorant people and mostly use it as a platform to interact with my Israeli friends here. 

Israel's truth isn't always the truth. For example, Israel's propaganda was that upon nationhood, Palestinians weren't expelled but instead left on their own accord because they were scared. However this obscures the truth. The truth was that Ben Gurion himself told IDF soldiers to sabotage Arab villages in order to get them to leave. You can watch the Tantura documentary where IDF veterans testify this and they (researchers in the film) even bring up old documents buried in IDF archives more or less corroborating this. This confirms the unspoken and known implication that when Israel got nationhood, that there was no room for the Arabs. That they would have to leave and become refugees. A "transfer of population". This is just one example against your stance to firmly stand by "her truth".

You talk about nuance and being part of the problem, but to be convinced that a nation's narrative (i.e. propaganda) is the truth and you'll stand by it demonstrates your bias. 

This is why I don't even bother replying on this topic. There is no nuance. There is just the Israeli narrative. 

Edited July 17 by gambler

[gambler]

2 hours ago, Vrubel said:

I will block the aggressively ignorant people and mostly use it as a platform to interact with my Israeli friends here. 

I will also block the ignorant, and I'm starting with you. Blocked. 

[Vrubel]

If I sense you’re part of the zombie hivemind smear campaign, I am tired of your shit and you will be blocked. If you have something fresh and intelligent to say, I can listen and note the merit of your post even if I disagree with you. The kind of vibe you give with your posting is important here, it’s usually a good indicator of decency and integrity or the lack thereof. 

Edited July 17 by Vrubel

[Bobby_2021]

2 hours ago, Vrubel said:

@Karmadhi Dude stop doubling down on your ignorance. What you do is just an age-old smear campaign and dirty tricks like a brainwashed teenage internet troll. You don't give a fuck about making honest, nuanced or crucial distinctions. You're part of the problem and the reason why I will always firmly defend Israel and stand for her truth. 

I had a nice run on this thread but from now on, I will block the aggressively ignorant people and mostly use it as a platform to interact with my Israeli friends here. 

@Karmadhi is among the most articulate people on this forum. He raised an important point in the last post. 

[Vrubel]

1 hour ago, Bobby_2021 said:

@Karmadhi is among the most articulate people on this forum. He raised an important point in the last post. 

When the IDF starts to crush the skulls of objectors with a sledgehammer and sending the bloodied hammer to the EU (or anyone else) we can discuss how similar the IDF and Wagner are.

Due to the shitstorm of misinformation and incredibly deceitful propaganda, I can’t just take some anti-Israel social media post at face value, I hope you understand that. Unfortunately, though shady interrogation techniques are a part of intelligence gathering in war, let’s hope in the future it won’t be necessary anymore but as of today, no serious military power is above that. 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

misinformation and incredibly deceitful propaganda

This is Israel's wheelhouse. They are the masters of bullshit about this entire conflict.

Edited July 17 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is Israel's wheelhouse. They are the masters of bullshit about this entire conflict.

I feel the same comes from the anti-Israeli side not any less.

If you have examples I would like to hear to understand you better.

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I feel the same comes from the anti-Israeli side not any less

You feel that way because you are Israeli.

Quote

If you have examples I would like to hear to understand you better.

If you don't understand Israeli propaganda all over the media by now, I cannot help you. The problem is you don't want to see it, not that it isn't there to be seen.

It is your responsibility to inform yourself about the lies and bullshit of your government. Don't ask us to do that for you.

You could simply go to Google and type: "Israeli lies and propaganda about Gaza", if you dare.

Edited July 17 by Leo Gura

[Vrubel]

@Nivsch take it from here

As I understand. he says that because in America being sympathetic to Israel is perceived as mainstream and yes, Israel as a nation embodies more right-wing blue-orange values which he is set against in an almost absolutist manner.

Obviously, the insane propaganda shitstorm coming from the other side is way more vicious and many a number more.

[Nivsch]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You feel that way because you are Israeli.

If you don't understand Israeli propaganda all over the media by now, I cannot help you. The problem is you don't want to see it, not that it isn't there to be seen.

It is your responsibility to inform yourself about the lies and bullshit of your government. Don't ask us to do that for you.

You could simply go to Google and type: "Israeli lies and propaganda about Gaza", if you dare.

I am all into agreeing with the problems of this Netanyahu government I personally hate but the issue is too broad thats why I asked for examples.

I will give an example from myself. The illusion of "total victory" that can take years when meanwhile the hostages are suffering and Netanyahu damages the chances for a deal purposely.