Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Raze]

Quote

Strapped down, blindfolded, held in diapers: Israeli whistleblowers detail abuse of Palestinians in shadowy detention center

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-teiman-detention-whistleblowers-intl-cmd/index.html

Quote

CNN spoke to three Israeli whistleblowers who worked at the Sde Teiman desert camp, which holds Palestinians detained during Israel’s invasion of Gaza. All spoke out at risk of legal repercussions and reprisals from groups supportive of Israel’s hardline policies in Gaza.

They paint a picture of a facility where doctors sometimes amputated prisoners’ limbs due to injuries sustained from constant handcuffing; of medical procedures sometimes performed by underqualified medics earning it a reputation for being “a paradise for interns”; and where the air is filled with the smell of neglected wounds left to rot.

Quote

Inside the Base Where Israel Has Detained Thousands of Gazans

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/06/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-detention-base.html

https://archive.is/cUQF9

 

Quote

A leaked draft of the UNRWA report detailed an interview that gave a similar account. It cited a 41-year-old detainee who said that interrogators “made me sit on something like a hot metal stick and it felt like fire,” and also said that another detainee “died after they put the electric stick up” his anus.

Mr. al-Hamlawi recalled being forced to sit in a chair wired with electricity. He said he was shocked so often that, after initially urinating uncontrollably, he then stopped urinating for several days. Mr. al-Hamlawi said he, too, had been forced to wear nothing but a diaper, to stop him from soiling the floor.

Ibrahim Shaheen, 38, a truck driver detained in early December for nearly three months, said he was shocked roughly half a dozen times while sitting in a chair. Officers accused him of concealing information about the location of dead hostages, Mr. Shaheen said.

Mr. Bakr also said he was forced to sit in chair wired with electricity, sending a current pulsing through his body that made him pass out.

Mr. al-Hamlawi, the senior nurse, said a female officer had ordered two soldiers to lift him up and press his rectum against a metal stick that was fixed to the ground. Mr. al-Hamlawi said the stick penetrated his rectum for roughly five seconds, causing it to bleed and leaving him with “unbearable pain.”

 

Quote

An independent review finds no evidence for Israel's claims about UNRWA and Hamas

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/28/1247702980/an-independent-review-finds-no-evidence-for-israels-claims-about-unrwa-and-hamas

Quote

US intelligence casts doubt on Israeli claims of UNRWA-Hamas links, report says

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/us-intelligence-unrwa-hamas

@Gennadiy1981 @Nivsch Thoughts on these articles?

[Hatfort]

So the Israeli army used the Hannibal Directive on October 7th, they are in a high grade responsible for the deaths of a big portion of the casualties that day, unnecessary deaths. Some to avoid having to deal with hostages, they preferred their own citizens dead than alive and prevent future negotiations with the enemy. Others because they just fired at everything at once, there are reports of witnesses of even a tank firing a home where there were 14 Israelis of which 13 were killed. Of course, then count those Israelis killed by them as victims of Hamas.

Apart from being a very questionable protocol for the lives of their own people and soldiers, there's also the use of the high death toll of 1200 as result, of which they are partially responsible, to justify what they've been doing since then. Which I'll remind a bit, bombing schools, hospitals, homes with families in, basically turning Gaza into a parking lot, and just blatantly shooting at unarmed innocent Palestinian civilians in the streets daily. More than 15.000 known children dead, who knows how many more unknown, and who knows how many injured for life.

All this for a land they decided to colonize 70 years ago, which they did using extremely violent means to do so, and this is what they are still doing to this day.

[enchanted]

Nationalism and religion breeds violence (Krishnamurti)

So while Israel and Hammas are obviously being violent. Anyone who is "anti-Isreal" or "anti-Hammas" is also being violent because you are categorizing them into a race, nation, or religion. 

Therefore the higher conscious description of this conflict is not Israel is fighting Palestinian but humans are fighting humans, the way they have been for 10000's years. 

This view I described above is our only way out of conflict for the planet. If we insist on seeing Palestinians/Jews/Russians/Ukrainians as a different races we will have violence. 

Like the Israelis, we too are dehumanizing the humans who live in the arbitrary borders of Palestine by calling them Palestinians. They aren't Palestinians they are humans. 

[Hatfort]

8 minutes ago, enchanted said:

Nationalism and religion breeds violence (Krishnamurti)

So while Israel and Hammas are obviously being violent. Anyone who is "anti-Isreal" or "anti-Hammas" is also being violent because you are categorizing them into a race, nation, or religion. 

Therefore the higher conscious description of this conflict is not Israel is fighting Palestinian but humans are fighting humans, the way they have been for 10000's years. 

This view I described above is our only way out of conflict for the planet. If we insist on seeing Palestinians/Jews/Russians/Ukrainians as a different races we will have violence. 

Like the Israelis, we too are dehumanizing the humans who live in the arbitrary borders of Palestine by calling them Palestinians. They aren't Palestinians they are humans. 

So the Holocaust was humans killing humans? Is that how we should refer to it from now on? Shouldn't we acknowledge any ethnic variable in these historic events or more recent ones?

Look, of course we are all humans, and we should strive to live in peace with each other, because it's true we are really all equal, we share one planet, and we are all related to each other by blood. But even in this equality, there is also some surface cultural variety that has been molded through milenias, that I don't think we should erase, but we could instead celebrate as a common achievement. I think the problem is when some humans get supremacist or engage in things like colonization, or apartheid systems, which are incredibly damaging for the other humans who suffer them.

[Bobby_2021]

36 minutes ago, Hatfort said:

Apart from being a very questionable protocol for the lives of their own people and soldiers, there's also the use of the high death toll of 1200 as result, of which they are partially responsible

Most of the 1200 people who died are soldiers who got shot by hamas.

It's an absolute security failure from Israel. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

This is old tatics 

 

[Karmadhi]

47 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Most of the 1200 people who died are soldiers who got shot by hamas.

 

Proof? As far as I saw it is unclear who killed who.

There is footage of Hamas killing people but it does not amount to 1200 people overall.

[mrPixel]

1 hour ago, Hatfort said:

I think the problem is when some humans get supremacist or engage in things like colonization, or apartheid systems, which are incredibly damaging for the other humans who suffer them.

The problem is that people believe their own bullshit. And then, these same people believe that their bullshit is superior to other people's bullshit. That's what's at the root of all this. All actions stem from this.

[Rafael Thundercat]

 

[Danioover9000]

@Karmadhi

3 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Nivsch By the way how come when Hamas kills Israelis you loose your shit, but when IDF does as it has been reveled by the Israeli press these past days, you seem not to care nor mention it here.

Or is it ok when IDF does it?

You realize it is still murder...

Same goes for @Vrubel @hundreth @Gennadiy1981

   IDF means for Israelis I Don't Find anything wrong killing time by killing Palestinians all night.

   It amazes me, perplexes me, these events pales next to the series of episodes spanning 80 years ago, that these dudes have ID problems, like Israel Didn't Fiendishly feast and fleeced Palestine, come on pals, why the lies?

   Got so many questions like: Why Al Nakba labeled a national risk? Or why the Oslo Springs wintered permafrost? Why didn't the accords go to ceasefire plans? Why we yawn at crippled war veterans who just wanted some of their land back? Why we, like, lick our chops up, killings dudes, duds and duets in a party? Like are we drunk on liquor and hubris? Thinking that debris is fresh like Fabreeze?!Truly?! A true man of the people would say open your eyes to the sins of your times, but wait, last true man was when...ah right, crucified...yikes.

   We got some real ID problems!

   We got some real ID problems!

   We got some real ID problems!

   

   Take it in all, smell the roses and BS of our ashen foundation, 

[Rafael Thundercat]

https://www.vice.com/en/article/bv8da4/the-not-so-hidden-israeli-politics-of-the-last-of-us-part-ii

Some cuts from the link above:

.....

The Not So Hidden Israeli Politics of 'The Last of Us Part II'

'The Last of Us Part II' presents what at first seems like an evenhanded point of view, but perpetuates the very cycles of violence it's supposedly so troubled by.

The Last of Us Part II focuses on what has been broadly defined by some of its creators as a "cycle of violence." While some zombie fiction shows human depravity in response to fear or scarcity in the immediate aftermath of an outbreak, The Last of Us Part II takes place in a more stabilized post apocalypse, decades after societal collapse, where individuals and communities choose to hurt each other as opposed to taking heinous actions out of desperation.

......

 

The game's co-director and co-writer Neil Druckmann, an Israeli who was born and raised in the West Bank before his family moved to the U.S., told the Washington Post that the game's themes of revenge can be traced back to the 2000 killing of two Israeli soldiers by a mob in Ramallah. Some of the gruesome details of the incident were captured on video, which Druckmann viewed. In his interview, he recounted the anger and desire for vengeance he felt when he saw the video—and how he later reconsidered and regretted those impulses, saying they made him feel “gross and guilty.” But it gave him the kernel of a story.

“I landed on this emotional idea of, can we, over the course of the game, make you feel this intense hate that is universal in the same way that unconditional love is universal?” Druckmann told the Post. “This hate that people feel has the same kind of universality. You hate someone so much that you want them to suffer in the way they’ve made someone you love suffer.”

Edited July 13 by Rafael Thundercat

[Danioover9000]

@Rafael Thundercat

40 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/bv8da4/the-not-so-hidden-israeli-politics-of-the-last-of-us-part-ii

Some cuts from the link above:

.....

The Not So Hidden Israeli Politics of 'The Last of Us Part II'

'The Last of Us Part II' presents what at first seems like an evenhanded point of view, but perpetuates the very cycles of violence it's supposedly so troubled by.

The Last of Us Part II focuses on what has been broadly defined by some of its creators as a "cycle of violence." While some zombie fiction shows human depravity in response to fear or scarcity in the immediate aftermath of an outbreak, The Last of Us Part II takes place in a more stabilized post apocalypse, decades after societal collapse, where individuals and communities choose to hurt each other as opposed to taking heinous actions out of desperation.

......

 

The game's co-director and co-writer Neil Druckmann, an Israeli who was born and raised in the West Bank before his family moved to the U.S., told the Washington Post that the game's themes of revenge can be traced back to the 2000 killing of two Israeli soldiers by a mob in Ramallah. Some of the gruesome details of the incident were captured on video, which Druckmann viewed. In his interview, he recounted the anger and desire for vengeance he felt when he saw the video—and how he later reconsidered and regretted those impulses, saying they made him feel “gross and guilty.” But it gave him the kernel of a story.

“I landed on this emotional idea of, can we, over the course of the game, make you feel this intense hate that is universal in the same way that unconditional love is universal?” Druckmann told the Post. “This hate that people feel has the same kind of universality. You hate someone so much that you want them to suffer in the way they’ve made someone you love suffer.”

   WOW! I had no idea Neil was Israeli and that event was a source of inspiration for TLOU2.

[Gennadiy1981]

5 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

Documents?? Historical proof? Who is the simplifier here??? fck off

 

My proof is the Bible man. Open the Torah start with Genesis 15:18 where God gives the Land of Israel to Jews. We are not colonizers but we take our land back. Go to your local church and ask for Bible and I will guide you where to read. 
 

And by the way I do not change my mind. Where I am I will always be, Gennadiy always remains Gennadiy, regarding or any political, social or economical change. I research and I know my shit. Look you want to argue with me about ethics or morality, you probably can out argue but don’t argue with me about Bible, I studies that stuff pretty deep and I can debate anyone on that issue.

@Danioover9000 it’s always nice to hear from you and thank you for not forgetting about me. You asked two questions. So about Ukraine and if the soldiers were not in school, that I have no idea, I will not debate something that I don’t know, that I hear from news outlets only and my info is as good as the news agency tells.

As far as that Hospital goes, first of all I have relatives and cousins who are actually on the battle field. They have no reason to lie, look if you want to go that far, then you cannot believe anything except what you witnesses yourself, then we would come  to idea of solipsism. But speaking to my cousin who is actually in a high rank, cannot mention his name as it’s part of government secret, yes the Hamas were shooting rockets from that so in order to save people they had to use air strike. However, what he told me, again what he told me (and he is an honest person) the brigadier said not to speak that Hamas was shooting rockets, I don’t knew what is the intention, but they did let US counterparts know, so I would assume Biden knows but for some reason they prefer not to say publicly, that’s why America would not condemn and neither are major American outlets. I don’t know if there is a secret or a game they are playing, I am relaying what happened.

@Karmadhi you keep saying that it’s out of proportion. No as I said I am not willing to loose my citizens one vs one. They attack us first, they penetrated our borders and kidnapped my people, so they have to suffer the consequences. And as I said many times, they all do not worth our finger nail, so if I could keep ration 0 to tens of thousand I would more than love to.

however, if I would be a prime minster of Israel, no Palestinian would be hurt, because I would transfer them all out and let them live happily with their Arab brethren and we would live happily in our state, and there would be no war. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

@Gennadiy1981 lost case. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

@Gennadiy1981 lost case.

[Gennadiy1981]

2 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

@Gennadiy1981 lost case. 

My point exactly. This is the negotiating point.
Now let’s communicate.

[Rafael Thundercat]

12 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

God gives the Land of Israel to Jews

You show here you know Sh#% about God, and your idea of God is probably a sort of Land Lord that have preferences for this people and not that people. Go for some deep awakenings, you are in the wrong Forum, maybe there is a good forum for you in your Kibutz

[Nivsch]

@Rafael Thundercat Jews were the majority here for centuries before they became minority for more centuries.

[Gennadiy1981]

Just now, Rafael Thundercat said:

You show here you know Sh#% about God, and your idea of God is probably a sort of Land Lord that have preferences for this people and not that people. Go for some deep awakenings, you are in the wrong Forum, maybe there is a good forum for you in your Kibutz

I beg to differ my friend, I spent many years learning and studying Torah (Bible) you want to pick a topic to argue, we can have amazing conversation here. I can quote you any passage from Bible from my heart.

And my friend I am doing awakening work all the time. Indeed I believe I am in a good place. Listen there is a self survival here and you don’t know when it means when you are bombed by rockets and you don’t know which one can fall on your head. So you can’t judge a place where you are not there. And I am sure for whatever country you live in, if they had such shit, they would have done hundred times worse.

also at @Karmadhi you mentioned about ethnic cleansing few posts earlier. Now, the Bible says on this land only Israel would exist and no other country, and while many Israelis do want to seek peace and don’t mind to cut their country in half or in quarter or into so many peaces (whom you call lefties) or make ten states here, the way God runs the world is that he makes even the most liberal Israelis take gun and wipe Palis out of here. I am telling you, God does not make mistakes and everything runs according to His plan. And nothing against @Nivsch, but many people in Israel do support his vision and they are willing to give away everything even Jerusalem to have peace and no fighting, but, as we say here in Israel, Baruch HaShem, The Lord has His own vision and the Palis will eventually be gone from the Holly Land, one way or another. 
 

 I am fascinated how God runs this world, indeed things are happening accordingly, you want proof? Read Zachariah, and then Jeremiah and Isaiah.
 

But please don’t complain to me, take your beef with God Almightly.

[Raze]