Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Bobby_2021]

It should be contested on who exactly bombed the hospital in kiev.

It could have been a misfired Ukraine missile.

Russia doesn't target hospitals like this.

[Nivsch]

[Raze]

 

[Raze]

Quote

Gazan Journalists Document How Palestinians Are Resorting to Gathering Leaves for Food

Resorting to eating tree leaves puts Gazans in the same unenviable position as civilians in other Middle East conflict zones and in North Korea, harvesting what were previously considered inedible plants to stave off hunger

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2024-06-28/ty-article/.premium/gazan-journalists-document-how-palestinians-are-resorting-to-gathering-leaves-for-food/00000190-594f-dc65-abff-796f9b360000

Quote

According to a nutrition vulnerability analysis conducted in March by the Global Nutrition Cluster, a network of humanitarian organizations chaired by UNICEF, 90 percent of children ages 6-23 months and pregnant and breastfeeding women across Gaza faced “severe food poverty,” eating two or fewer food groups each day.

Children with preexisting health conditions are particularly vulnerable to the devastating effects of malnutrition, which significantly weakens immunity. And starvation, even for survivors, leads to lasting harm, especially in children, causing stunted growth, cognitive issues, and developmental delays.

Gaza’s Health Ministry announced on March 8 that about 60,000 pregnant women in Gaza suffered from malnutrition, dehydration and inadequate health care. Poor nutrition during pregnancy harms both the baby and the mother, increasing the risk of miscarriages, fetal deaths, compromised immune system development, growth impacts, and maternal mortality.

Older people are also at particular risk of malnutrition, which increases mortality among those with acute or chronic illnesses. HelpAge International reported that even before October, 45 percent of older people in Gaza were going to bed hungry at least once a week, with 6 percent hungry every night.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/04/09/gaza-israels-imposed-starvation-deadly-children

Quote

Israeli General Denounces Jewish Settler Violence in West Bank

Maj. Gen. Yehuda Fuks, the outgoing chief of Israel’s Central Command, rebuked the Israeli government’s policies in the West Bank and condemned “nationalist crime” by Jewish settlers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/09/world/middleeast/israel-west-bank-violence-yehuda-fuks.html

Edited July 10 by Raze

[Danioover9000]

   Fantastic video! Lesson on bias, distortions and cognitive blind spots and logical faults. Last half is much better and applies to all nations and to human condition.

 

[Karmadhi]

@Raze "But October 7th".

One day they will nuke Gaza and still talk about October 7th.

One of the biggest overreactions in  modern history

[Gennadiy1981]

18 hours ago, zazen said:

Probs just Hamas.

 

@zazen no there is a big difference and no the news sources are not stupid. Russia attacks Ukraine for no good reason, just because they feel like it and deliberately shoot without looking. In Israel case, the Hamas terrorist were launching rockets and were the terrorist were hiding. Israel had to eliminate the militants and it was the best and only way it would have been, they tried other alternates but when you have militants shooting at soldiers, the soldiers will not stand idly. Hence it was an accident and therefore the air strike made this while in Russia, it was a deliberate attack on innocent without any reason whatsoever, 

I am really sorry but if you cannot see the diffence then you have a moral problem. Thank God BBC and other news agencies are still sober.

[hundreth]

10 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Raze "But October 7th".

One day they will nuke Gaza and still talk about October 7th.

One of the biggest overreactions in  modern history

There really is no such thing as an overreaction to having your country invaded and >1000 of your people brutally murdered while live streamed and celebrated.

Especially given the relative size of Israel compared to other nations.

That is an all out act of war and a declaration as such. On 9/11, 3000 people were killed in a nation of over 300 million. It lead to 20 years of war, and is still remembered as a landmark moment in history today. Each year it is actively remembered. 

To minimize such an event is absurd. 

Now, that's not to say it warrants any response involving the indiscriminate killing of civilians. But minimizing such an event only shows us that we need to do whatever it takes to care of ourselves, because no one else will.

[Raze]

10 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

@zazen no there is a big difference and no the news sources are not stupid. Russia attacks Ukraine for no good reason, just because they feel like it and deliberately shoot without looking. In Israel case, the Hamas terrorist were launching rockets and were the terrorist were hiding. Israel had to eliminate the militants and it was the best and only way it would have been, they tried other alternates but when you have militants shooting at soldiers, the soldiers will not stand idly. Hence it was an accident and therefore the air strike made this while in Russia, it was a deliberate attack on innocent without any reason whatsoever, 

I am really sorry but if you cannot see the diffence then you have a moral problem. Thank God BBC and other news agencies are still sober.

What evidence do you have they were firing rockets from the school? So all the kids were playing at the school in broad daylight while rockets were flying out of it just expecting to be bombed?

 

[Raze]

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

There really is no such thing as an overreaction to having your country invaded and >1000 of your people brutally murdered while live streamed and celebrated.

Especially given the relative size of Israel compared to other nations.

That is an all out act of war and a declaration as such. On 9/11, 3000 people were killed in a nation of over 300 million. It lead to 20 years of war, and is still remembered as a landmark moment in history today. Each year it is actively remembered. 

To minimize such an event is absurd. 

Now, that's not to say it warrants any response involving the indiscriminate killing of civilians. But minimizing such an event only shows us that we need to do whatever it takes to care of ourselves, because no one else will.

Now calculate the Gaza death toll in comparison to the relative size of Gazas population. Also throw in the 2008-9 war, 2012 war, 2014 war, and 2018 protest. Maybe you’ll see why Gazans are hostile to the force that blockades them and what lead up to Oct 7 instead of assuming it came out of nowhere. 
 

Nothing about this war is taking care of yourself, Hamas is still operational and a paltry amount of hostages were rescued. No one in Israel is safer because of it and they definitely weren’t safer because of the conflicts that lead to Oct 7.

”no one else will” isn’t true either, Israel receives a huge amount of military aid whereas Palestinians have been barred from advocacy for decades. 

Edited July 11 by Raze

[Karmadhi]

12 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

no there is a big difference and no the news sources are not stupid. Russia attacks Ukraine for no good reason, just because they feel like it and deliberately shoot without looking. In Israel case, the Hamas terrorist were launching rockets and were the terrorist were hiding. Israel had to eliminate the militants and it was the best and only way it would have been, they tried other alternates but when you have militants shooting at soldiers, the soldiers will not stand idly. Hence it was an accident and therefore the air strike made this while in Russia, it was a deliberate attack on innocent without any reason whatsoever, 

I am really sorry but if you cannot see the diffence then you have a moral problem. Thank God BBC and other news agencies are still sober.

Russia will claim weapons and troops hide in schools and hospitals.

Israel will claim weapons and troops hide in schools and hospitals.

Nobody knows the truth.

I have spoken with both pro Russians and pro Israelis.

Everyone uses that argument and provides "proof" for it.

And Israel has done this like 100 times now, it is not the first time.

They had a very pretty policy of killing 20 civilians per Hamas fighter and 100 civilians per Hamas seniors.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes

If you are interested.

As brutal as Russia is, I have not seen them kill 50 people per strike.

It is usually less than 10, with exceptions.

And I do not hold Russia in a higher note than Israel or anything.

Both are monsters.

Edited July 11 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

2 hours ago, hundreth said:

There really is no such thing as an overreaction to having your country invaded and >1000 of your people brutally murdered while live streamed and celebrated.

Of course there is. Usually if you kill more than 10x civilians back it is an overreaction.

2 hours ago, hundreth said:

That is an all out act of war and a declaration as such

Of course, but a campaign against the entire population is an over reaction .

This is for example an over reaction. 

A not over reaction would be a professional army that only shoots at those that are clearly armed and threats.

Not random people.

2 hours ago, hundreth said:

n 9/11, 3000 people were killed in a nation of over 300 million. It lead to 20 years of war, and is still remembered as a landmark moment in history today. Each year it is actively remembered. 

Because USA did not do a genocide campagain and raze the entire country it invaded to the ground.

Also they did not engineer a famine.

Lastly, the territories USA invaded were not put on a siege for 20 years and bombed yearly killing thousands of innocents.

And finally, everyone says that USA also did an overreaction and they told Israel from the start to not make their mistakes.

Not only Israel made it, they 10x it.

Edited July 11 by Karmadhi

[Vrubel]

11 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Russia will claim weapons and troops hide in schools and hospitals.

Israel will claim weapons and troops hide in schools and hospitals.

Nobody knows the truth.

False equivalencies is the core of our disagreements. 

Israel needs to clear out schools and hospitals because that’s where the enemy bases itself as in line with their death and victimization cult. 

 

What Russia did, I have no words for… Don't spew a pre-packaged narrative but learn how to make distinctions both fine and crucial ones. Just saying everybody is always equal doesn't cut it. 

Edited July 11 by Vrubel

[Karmadhi]

5 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

False equivalencies is the core of our disagreements. 

Israel needs to clear out schools and hospitals because that’s where the enemy bases itself and is all part of their death and victimization cult. 

 

What Russia did, I have no words for… Don't spew a pre-packaged narrative but learn how to make distinctions both fine and crucial ones. Just saying everybody is always equal doesn't cut it. 

To be clear, I am not saying Russia attack is justified. It is just they use the same bullshit arguments that Israel uses. So I also have no words for what Russia has done with their strikes.

BUT, I also have no words for what Israel has been doing.

In your mind Russia bad, Israel good.

In my mind, Russia bad, Israel bad.

I cannot talk about schools but I saw interviews with international doctors in Piers Morgan show and they said it clearly there were no traces of Hamas on the hospitals they had operated on. And I trust those independents 100x more than I would trust Israeli propaganda.

So I find that argument pure propaganda and bullshit.

At least about the hospitals.

Edited July 11 by Karmadhi

[numbersinarow]

Question for anyone who thinks there's no double standard against Israel.

Do you think NATO has received as much hate for literally committing ethnic cleansing even according to a biased source like wikipedia, as Israel has for defending itself against a terrorist attack way worse than 9/11? The answer is, of course not, the mainstream left literally support NATO and would be supporting the war against hamas if it was done by the US directly.

[numbersinarow]

There are literally shops in vietnam that ban jews from entering but not americans, even tho america is, on top of invading vietnam, supporting israel in the current war.

If you're going to rightfully oppose open air concentration camps, you have to double check that you're not supporting american exceptionalism through double standards.

[Danioover9000]

@numbersinarow

11 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

Question for anyone who thinks there's no double standard against Israel.

Do you think NATO has received as much hate for literally committing ethnic cleansing even according to a biased source like wikipedia, as Israel has for defending itself against a terrorist attack way worse than 9/11? The answer is, of course not, the mainstream left literally support NATO and would be supporting the war against hamas if it was done by the US directly.

   Wait, NATO was committing ethnic cleansing? Source? If I'm not mistaken maybe you're talking about when the Finnish were fighting the red army, and they briefly allied with Nazi Germany? 

[Danioover9000]

@numbersinarow

9 minutes ago, numbersinarow said:

There are literally shops in vietnam that ban jews from entering but not americans, even tho america is, on top of invading vietnam, supporting israel in the current war.

If you're going to rightfully oppose open air concentration camps, you have to double check that you're not supporting american exceptionalism through double standards.

   They're banning Jews now? Did you mean during the Vietnam war?

[Raze]

1 hour ago, numbersinarow said:

Question for anyone who thinks there's no double standard against Israel.

So if you are against double standards, do you think the US should cut off all aid to Israel as US law is to not provide aid to countries that have nuclear weapons outside of the non proliferation treaty, which Israel does?

[hundreth]

6 hours ago, Raze said:

Nothing about this war is taking care of yourself, Hamas is still operational and a paltry amount of hostages were rescued. No one in Israel is safer because of it and they definitely weren’t safer because of the conflicts that lead to Oct 7.

Says you. But let's call a spade a spade, you don't really know what was achieved militarily. You read anti Israel articles all day and post them here. You aren't really going to come across news where Hamas' capabilities have been minimized.

If by the standard that Hamas is completely eliminated, of course not... but Israel had to go in and squash their short term capabilities. So yes, they are absolutely safer from Hamas' military in the short term and even Pro Palestinian outlets have conceded as much.

If you had HIV, you wouldn't reject taking anti viral medications because they don't completely eliminate the virus. You have to take action. It doesn't matter that you were partially responsible by having unprotected sex, etc. You suppress the immediate threat as a first step.

As for the long term implications of having a non proportional response, yes I'd agree it's an issue for sure.

 

Quote

”no one else will” isn’t true either, Israel receives a huge amount of military aid whereas Palestinians have been barred from advocacy for decades. 

Israel has one military ally on the entire planet which is completely quid pro quo for the U.S. - but many pretend it's not. In the immediate aftermath of what happened, the narrative was already focused on the dead babies claims to shift the goalposts and minimize the significance of what happened. And today we see basically the same thing. It is a huge deal.

Of course we should also understand why what's happening is a huge deal for the Palestinians, including all the wars which came before. I don't believe in minimizing the horrors the Palestinians have suffered. I don't believe we should minimize what happens to any group. That isn't the answer.

Edited July 11 by hundreth