Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Raze]

 

Edited July 9 by Raze

[zazen]

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240708-gaza-death-toll-could-be-over-186000-report/amp/

“Armed conflicts have indirect health implications beyond the direct harm from violence. Even if the conflict ends immediately, there will continue to be many indirect deaths in the coming months and years from causes such as reproductive, communicable, and non-communicable diseases. The total death toll is expected to be large given the intensity of this conflict; destroyed health-care infrastructure; severe shortages of food, water, and shelter; the population's inability to flee to safe places; and the loss of funding to UNRWA, one of the very few humanitarian organisations still active in the Gaza Strip.

In recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from three to 15 times the number of direct deaths. Applying a conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per one direct death to the 37 396 deaths reported, it is not implausible to estimate that up to 186’ 000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict in Gaza. Using the 2022 Gaza Strip population estimate of 2 375 259, this would translate to 7·9% of the total population in the Gaza Strip.”

From one of the top global medical journals:

 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext

[Vrubel]

12 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

 

@Vrubel I am curious. Since it is ok to wish for genocide when you have a family loss from the enemy country, is it also ok for Palestinians who had family losses from Israel, to celebrate and wish for mass murder of Israeli civilians? Curious.

The guy seems pretty extreme and I disagree with him. Still, my real felt compassion and respect also extend to him. I guess that's a stage blue or even purple component of mine.

Every person is deeply selective with his compassion if they say otherwise they're probably just doing it for the sake of virtue signaling and are full of shit. 

[hundreth]

6 hours ago, zazen said:

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240708-gaza-death-toll-could-be-over-186000-report/amp/

“Armed conflicts have indirect health implications beyond the direct harm from violence. Even if the conflict ends immediately, there will continue to be many indirect deaths in the coming months and years from causes such as reproductive, communicable, and non-communicable diseases. The total death toll is expected to be large given the intensity of this conflict; destroyed health-care infrastructure; severe shortages of food, water, and shelter; the population's inability to flee to safe places; and the loss of funding to UNRWA, one of the very few humanitarian organisations still active in the Gaza Strip.

In recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from three to 15 times the number of direct deaths. Applying a conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per one direct death to the 37 396 deaths reported, it is not implausible to estimate that up to 186’ 000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict in Gaza. Using the 2022 Gaza Strip population estimate of 2 375 259, this would translate to 7·9% of the total population in the Gaza Strip.”

From one of the top global medical journals:

 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext

I saw this on Kyle Kulinski's channel, and he framed it as "Israel murdered 186 thousand Palestinians!"

It is an interesting observation regarding the impact of wars, all wars unfortunately.

[Karmadhi]

14 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Second of all, on a personal level you cannot judge anyone who lose their love one to war. You just can’t judge those people. 

 

Ok, do not judge Hamas then. Most of them are orphans so do not judge them when they do terrorist attacks on you  

[Karmadhi]

2 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Still, my real felt compassion and respect also extend to him

Why doesnt that also reach Palestinians who had family members that were killed by Israel even when those people say extreme stuff? Arent all humans equal?

Edited July 9 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

2 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Every person is deeply selective with his compassion if they say otherwise they're probably just doing it for the sake of virtue signaling and are full of shit. 

So you are admitting that you have clear bias and an agenda here and therefore you are not objective. 

[hundreth]

29 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

So you are admitting that you have clear bias and an agenda here and therefore you are not objective. 

Compassion and objectivity don't always go hand in hand. If you were being absolutely compassionate, no war would be justifiable regardless of motives. If you were absolutely compassionate, there wouldn't be much you can do without the concern of doing harm. In fact, you'd be paralyzed by the turmoil of feeling the weight of the world. I think that's what he meant by having selective compassion. It's a normal human response to allow us to function. 

And then comes the question of what is objectivity? They are approximations we share some consensus on at best. I think the most reasonable consensus we can agree on is having valid motives while doing your absolute best to avoid civilian casualties. In that respect, I would agree that Israel has failed. 

The Bhagavad Gita speaks to this very well:

Quote

The remaining chapters delve into the intricate intellectual arguments, religious justifications and ethical considerations Krishna offers Arjuna to convince him that, contrary to what he thinks, it is walking away from the war that is true ‘harm’, for he would be abandoning his dharma by not fighting the enemy when called upon to do so. The Gita is, thus, a text about Arjuna’s transformation from indecision and inaction to a man of responsible action. Krishna urges and convinces Arjuna that it is his dharma to fight a righteous war, even if it comes with painful consequences, which, Krishna claims, arise out of Arjuna’s limited understanding of the nature of the world and reality. In the concluding 18th chapter, Arjuna declares that the doubts and despondency he expressed initially were a ‘delusion’ and that this conversation with Krishna has given way to ‘wise memory’, thus, announcing his readiness to go to battle, which is his true dharma.

 

Edited July 9 by hundreth

[hundreth]

I think we'd all be better off if both sides took from the wisdom of the Gita and conducted themselves without hate and rage.

Quote

Throughout the second half of the chapter, Krishna continues to offer Arjuna recommendations on the attitude he must maintain when engaging in war. The ideal warrior, Krishna suggests, is one in whom ‘rage, passion and fear’ are ‘gone’ and one who ‘neither loves nor hates’. By not clinging to the spheres of the senses and desire and anger, the warrior may ultimately succeed in letting go of all ‘fruits’ of his fight so that he ‘let fulfilment and frustration’ become one and ‘the same’, a prerequisite to finding ‘equanimity’, an essential attribute of a warrior according to Krishna. A true warrior embodying the spirit of the Gita is called on to act with such ‘calmness’ and ‘self-control’.

According to Krishna, Arjuna should partake in war when his conduct in the battlefield is devoid of ‘passion and hatred’ and instead exhibits a sense of ‘restraint’ as it is only ‘the one who thus restrains the self, and who governs the self, attains peace’. Seen from this perspective, The Gita’s message on the combatant’s disposition during war is more fundamental to the text than all the justifications it provides for waging a war. This is because, as Krishna suggests, one who does not embody the spirit of peace, restraint and calmness in the midst of war is unworthy of being called a warrior and can only cause ‘harm’, and hence has no place in waging the dharmayuddha.

The Gita, thus, proposes a nuanced approach to war and conduct therein. While it accepts the reality and necessity of war, it does not valorise the violence and carnage that accompanies war and instead advocates for minimising the pain and suffering it brings about. It is precisely to limit the harmful effects of war that Krishna recommends Arjuna that he engage in war only after he builds up an internal constitution that nurtures calmness and peace over the passions of anger, hate and vengeance as well as the urge to win or express his strength and superiority, all of which, Krishna says can only lead to careless use of unrestrained force that will eventually lead to more harm.

 

[Danioover9000]

@hundreth

17 minutes ago, hundreth said:

I think we'd all be better off if both sides took from the wisdom of the Gita and conducted themselves without hate and rage.

 

   If that's the case, then stop morally condemning HAMMAs and even the IDF then. And all sides stop complaining about them then, just silently go about your day then.

[hundreth]

40 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@hundreth

   If that's the case, then stop morally condemning HAMMAs and even the IDF then. And all sides stop complaining about them then, just silently go about your day then.

Even that you have issue with? I think you need some therapy or some help my guy. You have thousands and thousands of posts here and seem to spend an unreasonable amount of time here shitposting. You almost got banned the other day. Take it easy.

You can condemn the actions of a group without hate and rage... as I've done. I am for the elimination of Hamas, but I'm not for horrible prisoner conditions, torture, abuses, and the needless harm to civilians and families. 

[Danioover9000]

@hundreth

16 minutes ago, hundreth said:

Even that you have issue with? I think you need some therapy or some help my guy. You have thousands and thousands of posts here and seem to spend an unreasonable amount of time here shitposting. You almost got banned the other day. Take it easy.

You can condemn the actions of a group without hate and rage... as I've done. I am for the elimination of Hamas, but I'm not for horrible prisoner conditions, torture, abuses, and the needless harm to civilians and families. 

   Don't mind me minding my own business. I was just pointing out potential contradictions in logic for others to see, not you. Potent in the nouns, verbs, adverbs and adjectives, adding stipulations onto compassion and karma from the Bhagavad Gita, copy and pasted onto the Israel conflict, inflict it with an inflexion of giddy, for the hundredth time stop being excited. Again, don't mind me the garden gnome, you ignored me and we respected the writing in the wall, so don't act Igno ramous of the narrative you ran with onwards I warded off with my own fire-wall. Don't be fired up, when I put fires down. Don't be outing left when I left the field with you fighting my shadows. Honor our ceasefire first, and pledge it, really, ignore me in every metric, just like I do to you you do to me too with signatures, messages and name mentions. Yet you mentioned me but I kept the promise, yet vice versa you broke it, like an alcoholic for the hundredth time, respectfully stop it, don't do me like Scorpio did to the froggy.

[Karmadhi]

2 hours ago, hundreth said:

Compassion and objectivity don't always go hand in hand. If you were being absolutely compassionate, no war would be justifiable regardless of motives. If you were absolutely compassionate, there wouldn't be much you can do without the concern of doing harm. In fact, you'd be paralyzed by the turmoil of feeling the weight of the world. I think that's what he meant by having selective compassion. It's a normal human response to allow us to function. 

And then comes the question of what is objectivity? They are approximations we share some consensus on at best. I think the most reasonable consensus we can agree on is having valid motives while doing your absolute best to avoid civilian casualties. In that respect, I would agree that Israel has failed. 

We can agree on this.

[Karmadhi]

Btw to you Israelis.

I saw a disturbing video recently of some Palestinians being released after being abducted in the West Bank to the point where they seemed mentally insane from the trauma of their treatment there.

What goes on the Israelis mind when they abduct people without criminal charges and then torture them?

How does this procedure work?

I want to understand if anyone here is informed.

So like the procedure and how arbitrary detention and torture are justified in the minds of the people that perform them and their superiors.

Is every Palestinian seen as a terrorist? Do they justify torture to innocents if it means getting information that may be useful? Are they sadistic and enjoy hurting others? Which one is it.

@Nivsch @Vrubel @hundreth @Gennadiy1981

 

 

There are endless endless of these examples.

Edited July 9 by Karmadhi

[Raze]

An exclusive interview with Hamas officials 

https://www.dropsitenews.com/p/on-the-record-with-hamas

 

[Danioover9000]

@Karmadhi

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

Btw to you Israelis.

I saw a disturbing video recently of some Palestinians being released after being abducted in the West Bank to the point where they seemed mentally insane from the trauma of their treatment there.

What goes on the Israelis mind when they abduct people without criminal charges and then torture them?

How does this procedure work?

I want to understand if anyone here is informed.

So like the procedure and how arbitrary detention and torture are justified in the minds of the people that perform them and their superiors.

Is every Palestinian seen as a terrorist? Do they justify torture to innocents if it means getting information that may be useful? Are they sadistic and enjoy hurting others? Which one is it.

@Nivsch @Vrubel @hundreth @Gennadiy1981

 

 

There are endless endless of these examples.

   Yeah some of that looks pretty bad.

[Raze]

 

[Danioover9000]

@Raze

11 minutes ago, Raze said:

 

   Why did they bomb the Awda school?

[zazen]

7 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

Why did they bomb the Awda school?

Probs just Hamas.

Look who suddenly remembered that bombing hospitals is a bad thing. This is how propaganda works, its not loud and in your face but discreet and full of omission thats drip fed to warp the narrative subconsciously.

They often conveniently leave out Israel's name. It’s kinda rude to not address a person or entity by its name - to address is to acknowledge the existence of. Are the West still anti-semitic for not mentioning or acknowledging Is-real? Are they controlled by Hamas?

'Explosions occurred. Buildings were damaged. Hospitals mysteriously crumbled into dust.' Who did it? The wind? 

Meanwhile, Western mouthpieces are tripping over themselves to condemn the attack on a Kyiv children's hospital. Biden tweets about Russian brutality, and Keir Starmer is all on about the most depraved of actions. The rest did similar.

As if we didn't we just spend months watching Israel turn Gaza's hospitals into craters? Where was all this righteous outrage then. When Israel was playing whack a mole with Palestinian medical facilities, these same bootlickers were bending over backwards to justify it. "But Hamas!"

The cognitive dissonance is enough to give you a whiplash - and that’s what Westerners themselves feel within their own societies. Bombing hospitals is only bad when the "wrong" people do it. When it's Israel, it's a tragic necessity. When it's Russia, it's a war crime that demands immediate condemnation.

Also, check US spokesperson Mat Miller being called out for smirking when being questioned about the possible death toll being 186’000, as the Lancet Journal revealed - https://x.com/samhusseini/status/1810836610092544007?s=46&t=DuLUbFRQFGpB8oo7PwRglQ

 

Edited July 10 by zazen

[Danioover9000]

@zazen

2 hours ago, zazen said:

Probs just Hamas.

Look who suddenly remembered that bombing hospitals is a bad thing. This is how propaganda works, its not loud and in your face but discreet and full of omission thats drip fed to warp the narrative subconsciously.

They often conveniently leave out Israel's name. It’s kinda rude to not address a person or entity by its name - to address is to acknowledge the existence of. Are the West still anti-semitic for not mentioning or acknowledging Is-real? Are they controlled by Hamas?

'Explosions occurred. Buildings were damaged. Hospitals mysteriously crumbled into dust.' Who did it? The wind? 

Meanwhile, Western mouthpieces are tripping over themselves to condemn the attack on a Kyiv children's hospital. Biden tweets about Russian brutality, and Keir Starmer is all on about the most depraved of actions. The rest did similar.

As if we didn't we just spend months watching Israel turn Gaza's hospitals into craters? Where was all this righteous outrage then. When Israel was playing whack a mole with Palestinian medical facilities, these same bootlickers were bending over backwards to justify it. "But Hamas!"

The cognitive dissonance is enough to give you a whiplash - and that’s what Westerners themselves feel within their own societies. Bombing hospitals is only bad when the "wrong" people do it. When it's Israel, it's a tragic necessity. When it's Russia, it's a war crime that demands immediate condemnation.

Also, check US spokesperson Mat Miller being called out for smirking when being questioned about the possible death toll being 186’000, as the Lancet Journal revealed - https://x.com/samhusseini/status/1810836610092544007?s=46&t=DuLUbFRQFGpB8oo7PwRglQ

 

   I agree it's rude to not give a full name to the entity that bombed that school, even though said entity signed that name between them and USA. Very peculiar...🤔