Israel / Palestine News Thread

[hundreth]

24 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Mua not really, it’s a perfectly reasonable thing to have in a citizenship test. That people will simply lie on them is of course an other, perhaps more broader issue.

You really have to be far off to be triggered by something this simple and seek some conspiracy behind this. 

That you find it irrational doesn't stop people from doing so. It's happening. @zazen's quote: "This enforced pampering of Israel makes natives question their leaders loyalties and interests." I have seen this sentiment in the U.S. for awhile. We can point out the specifics and dynamics of Israel's relationship with the U.S., how the vast majority of funds are used specifically to purchase American weaponry, how the Arab world at large receives more funding than Israel, how these are mutually beneficial relationships driven primarily by the United States and not the other way around, etc - but at the end of the day people will believe what they believe...

And so when we're making decisions, we have to combine emotional intelligence with pure reason and figure whether the juice is worth the squeeze for a gesture like this which in actuality doesn't achieve much.

It's analogous to vaccines, where it was logical to provide Covid vaccines for free and enforce inoculation for certain occupations. However, this caused a huge conspiratorial issue, and we may have had more adoption by charging money for it and treating it as any other product.

 

 

[Vrubel]

30 minutes ago, hundreth said:

That you find it irrational doesn't stop people from doing so. It's happening. @zazen's quote: "This enforced pampering of Israel makes natives question their leaders loyalties and interests." I have seen this sentiment in the U.S. for awhile. We can point out the specifics and dynamics of Israel's relationship with the U.S., how the vast majority of funds are used specifically to purchase American weaponry, how the Arab world at large receives more funding than Israel, how these are mutually beneficial relationships driven primarily by the United States and not the other way around, etc - but at the end of the day people will believe what they believe...

And so when we're making decisions, we have to combine emotional intelligence with pure reason and figure whether the juice is worth the squeeze for a gesture like this which in actuality doesn't achieve much.

It's analogous to vaccines, where it was logical to provide Covid vaccines for free and enforce inoculation for certain occupations. However, this caused a huge conspiratorial issue, and we may have had more adoption by charging money for it and treating it as any other product.

I get it you always need some self-awareness, understanding and class to avoid being mischaracterized by reasonable people but when some people are set against something like a mule, it's useless to pamper and dance your way around it - instead - do simply what needs to be done and say what needs to be said and let the action speak for itself even if it's mostly symbolic like in this case.

Again no reasonable person will be against such a perfectly understandable question unless they are already really far off in some ideology or worldview irreconcilable with modern German values. 

Edited June 26 by Vrubel

[Merkabah Star]

4 hours ago, zazen said:

Seems like Israel is the one being pampered and their feelings hurt because people don’t want to acknowledge or love them. They want to lawfully rape people into loving their glorious existence lol

Quote of the year.

the flip side is one day, hopefully,  Israelis will have to state Palestine has a right to exist to live abroad. Let’s see how triggered these arrogant Israelis are then. Pass the popcorn. 

[Nivsch]

19 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Again no reasonable person will be against such a perfectly understandable question unless they are already really far off in some ideology or worldview irreconcilable with modern German values. 

Right. That is why this question really aims to filter out radicals and radicals alone.

[Merkabah Star]

@Danioover9000 I didnt think they were ganging up on him, it’s no different to other people on them. As if zazen gives a shit, he wipes the floor with all of them.. 😀

Edited June 26 by Merkabah Star

[Vrubel]

3 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

Quote of the year.

the flip side is one day, hopefully,  Israelis will have to state Palestine has a right to exist to live abroad. Let’s see how triggered these arrogant Israelis are then. Pass the popcorn. 

We will be too "arrogant" to move to such a place We only go where we are welcomed and appreciated.

Kudos to America and Germany for broadly speaking being very good to Jews. Also Kudos to all the other countries worldwide that have low anti-Semitism and have a healthy respect for us. We love you. 

[Davino]

New player: Hezbollah 

[Hatfort]

One thing that I think is that you gotta be a big piece of shit to release a big dog to attack an elderly man or woman, no matter what your creed or the other person's is. That happened in Nazi Germany, and is happening again in Zionist Israel. Hasbara all you want about it with the US pay dollars, but that won't change.

This is my insight right now. You're welcome.

[Merkabah Star]

31 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

We will be too "arrogant" to move to such a place We only go where we are welcomed and appreciated.

Kudos to America and Germany for broadly speaking being very good to Jews. Also Kudos to all the other countries worldwide that have low anti-Semitism and have a healthy respect for us. We love you. 

You just never know how the world will turn. The Germans were tone deaf too. The US will drop you like a hot potato when it suits them. 😀

[hundreth]

11 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

You just never know how the world will turn. The Germans were tone deaf too. The US will drop you like a hot potato when it suits them. 😀

The irony is that this is the reason we support Israel.

[zazen]

@hundreth @Vrubel 

 As hundredth said it’s about the unintended outcome although the intent may seem good. As Vrubel said - most reasonable people don’t have an issue with the question but enough unreasonable people exist who are too polarized on the subject and can’t hold nuanced views.

These questions are heavy and rigged, like the “do you condemn October 7th?”question - initially it seems straight forward but then it isn’t because there’s a context to the question and many passionate and polarized people who will hear your one word answer and autocomplete the rest of your views and misunderstand you. These questions are dripping with loaded assumptions that cling to both the answer and the person answering. They're designed to be yes or no questions, but they demand caveats.

For pro-Palestinians, being pushed to denounce October 7th (which any sane person would) risks having that one word (Yes) misused to undermine the Palestinian cause itself as they get conflated.

To curb conspiracy theories, it's probably better for a nation's elites to prioritize their own country. While alliances are important, these relationships fall apart if an ally seems to care more about your country than their own people. This stirs conspiracy theories and resentment, making the public pull back their support which Israel very much needs.

In the US and Britain, for example, people are questioning why aid is sent to Israel when their own citizens need financial help, or why their armies and navies are scattered across the world—bombing Houthis in the Red Sea or sitting in the Mediterranean to contain Hezbollah—instead of protecting their own borders or waters. What they see is their leaders putting another nation’s borders and people above their own.

It's in Israel's own interest to ensure other states aren't acting in its name in ways that further enrage their populations against it. Israel already does plenty on its own to provoke global anger anyway.

 

[zazen]

@Gennadiy1981 @Nivsch @Vrubel @hundreth @Merkabah Star @Danioover9000 You know what? I bet if we all shared bread we’d have a laugh and get on despite different views.

Like merkabah said, pass the popcorn - pass the bread too, and some of that Palestinian/Israeli olive oil.

Sweet Jesus loves ya’ll.

Edited June 26 by zazen

[Merkabah Star]

@zazen we would all get along just nicely. I’m sure they will condition that we all sign a statement that Israel has the right to exist, first. 

Vrubel might need a mute button tho. 
 

🤡

for the record I think Israel has the right to exist, that’s never been an issue for me. 

[Merkabah Star]

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

The irony is that this is the reason we support Israel.

It’s strategic. 
 

it’s so out in the open how these Jewish lobby’s are controlling the US political parties now so expect a big backlash as Americans don’t like being manipulated so openly, that’s what they like to do. 

[Karmadhi]

2 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Kudos to America and Germany for broadly speaking being very good to Jews. Also Kudos to all the other countries worldwide that have low anti-Semitism and have a healthy respect for us. We love you. 

My home country (I wont name it here, DM me if you want the name), was one of the few in Europe that sheltered Jews and had like 10 times more Jews before than after the war (11 times or so). Close to no Jews were killed in the territory.

Even today they are in great terms with Israel and we put the Jewish Flag on our main square on the October attacks.

However, most people there now are absolutely disgusted by what Israel is doing and openly even in media shows it is referred to a massacre of civilians and even plausible genocide.

So when you manage to turn people that historically protected and had sympathy for Jews into critics, you know Israel has fucked up.

Unlike Germany we never harmed Jews so we do not feel any moral obligation to support Israel unconditionally, we support them as long as they are victims. We stood by them during the October attacks and defended them during the Holocaust even though we were occupied by the Nazis. It is quite telling imo that Israel no longer is seen as the victim but the aggressor at this point.

Oh yes, one last detail. The population of the country is majority Muslim. Not that it matters but just to show religion is irrelevant when it comes to humanity.

Edited June 26 by Karmadhi

[Twentyfirst]

2 hours ago, hundreth said:

The irony is that this is the reason we support Israel.

The reason the West supports Israel is because they hate Jews. "Get so far away from us go to any other land we don't care. Even if it doesn't make sense to drop you with the Arabs we will pay just to make it happen"

[Twentyfirst]

52 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

@zazen

for the record I think Israel has the right to exist, that’s never been an issue for me. 

But if Israel has the right to exist that means anyone can come to your house today and boot you out

[Twentyfirst]

@Karmadhi If Germany truly does support Jews then why not just carve out a piece of their land to them rather than send them money for an endless war

[Raze]

 

 

 

[Gennadiy1981]

@Karmadhi based on what you said initially the country that came to my mind was Denmark but once you mentioned Muslim majority then it’s Albania. Yes those two countries hid the Jews. And thanks for that.

Look we Jews were kicked out from 80 diffent countries historically way before what you guys call the Israeli occupation. What bothered the world back then?

What bothered you guys with crusades against us or inquisition, occupied lands of 67?

Why did you guys expelled us from Europe and why did you made pogroms in early twentieth century? Was it because we stole land? 
 

Why did you kick us out of southern Europe, from Asian countries? What bothered you back then when state of Israel did not exist. 
 

And you want us to just go and leave among you? After all you guys did to us?

As I said, I am totally fine to have Israel as it’s much better to live then to die.

I am perfectly fine that Israel destroys the enemies as it’s so much better to be a winner than a looser. 
 

And what will the world say? Who cares what the world will say. You guys love us after every Holocaust and build us monuments and museums. You love the weak Jew. 
 

And I tell you this, I would rather have a strong Israel hated by the entire world, then Auschwitz that would be loved by.