Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, Merkabah Star said:

@Gennadiy1981 You are what we call a bible thumper.. 🤡

the bible makes me snooze. I guess you could say you snooze, you lose. 😀

but even still, deeper answers lie within. 

🙏

He believes that America will always support them with weapons. Or worse that god is pulling all the strings just to satisfy him. How wrong he is 

[zazen]

New German citizens must declare Israel’s right to exist - https://www.ft.com/content/56e6182c-4c00-433f-a43d-57ad131781a6

Reminds me of a US anti-BDS law that demands contractors pledge loyalty to Israel by not boycotting or divesting from Israel.

If Israel were such a "Righteous nation with the most moral army'' it wouldn't require legally mandating a pinky-swear promise to not protest against them politically or economically.

Apparently, loyalty is measured not in hearts or minds, but in contracts and signatures.

Edited June 26 by zazen

[zazen]

13 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

I can provide thousand of mroe quotes and thats being modest, but how can you say those people bullshitted hen they predicted such. And if they predicted such details, and they claim they were messengers from God, how can I now close my eyes and let it go?

As you come from a Orthodox background its best to keep in mind that questioning something isn't rejecting it, but only revealing it in a new light with nuance.

A few ways prophecies can be explained:

Wisdom of pattern recognition - The observation of cyclical patterns in nature, society, and history can inform predictions that appear prophetic.

Vagueness / retroactive interpretation - Many prophecies are worded in a way that allows for multiple interpretations. The ambiguity makes it easier to fit various events to the prophecy after the fact.

Confirmation bias and their self fulfilling nature - People tend to remember and emphasise predictions that come true while forgetting or ignoring those that don't, creating an illusion of accuracy. The existence of a prophecy can influence people's behaviour, potentially leading to its fulfilment.

 

A better way to view prophecy is like a promise - of a vision or intention. They are like promises or intentions made sacred that mobilise people to work towards them, sometimes over generations. When these promises are finally fulfilled, we look back and call them prophetic. Perhaps it's not mystical foresight - it's human determination making a vision come true.

Edited June 26 by zazen

[Raze]

 

[Vrubel]

58 minutes ago, zazen said:

New German citizens must declare Israel’s right to exist - https://www.ft.com/content/56e6182c-4c00-433f-a43d-57ad131781a6

Reminds me of a US anti-BDS law that demands contractors pledge loyalty to Israel by not boycotting or divesting from Israel.

If Israel were such a "Righteous nation with the most moral army'' it wouldn't require legally mandating a pinky-swear promise to not protest against them politically or economically.

Apparently, loyalty is measured not in hearts or minds, but in contracts and signatures.

This is obviously aimed at Islamic immigrants because Germans don’t want to damage their societal fabric and cohesion more than they already did, which is understandable and absolutely in their right. 

 

[Nivsch]

15 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

This is obviously aimed at Islamic immigrants because Germans don’t want to damage their societal fabric and cohesion more than they already did, which is understandable and absolutely in their right. 

Deep down they know the dark side of the radical part of the pro-palestinian side's narrative, just in the same way and toxicity of Ben Gvir, Smutrich and their supporters sector. There is a reason why the support on Israel is still very commom after all. They have long time frame perspective for many years and even decades of familiarity with Israel much long before this war.

BTW I saw you tagged me thank you for your backup on me and support. Check the new photos from Israel 2 pages ago

Edited June 26 by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

New German citizens must declare Israel’s right to exist - https://www.ft.com/content/56e6182c-4c00-433f-a43d-57ad131781a6

Reminds me of a US anti-BDS law that demands contractors pledge loyalty to Israel by not boycotting or divesting from Israel.

If Israel were such a "Righteous nation with the most moral army'' it wouldn't require legally mandating a pinky-swear promise to not protest against them politically or economically.

Apparently, loyalty is measured not in hearts or minds, but in contracts and signatures.

Old Nazi's demand that you say good things about new Nazi's 

[Vrubel]

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Deep down they know the dark side of the radical part of the pro-palestinian side's narrative, just in the same way and toxicity of Ben Gvir, Smutrich and their supporters sector. There is a reason why the support on Israel is still very commom after all. They have long time frame perspective for many years and even decades of familiarity with Israel much long before this war.

Haha yes, they even get triggered by Germany strongly stating Israel has the right to exist.
 

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

BTW I saw you tagged me thank you for your backup on me and support. Check the new photos from Israel 2 pages ago

Yeah of course. Keep in mind, the scope for a genuine discussion about this complex and multi-faceted issue is very limited because their dopamine system rewards them with a quick high after they mindlessly spout something anti-Israel or anti-Western (even though they are probably Westerners themselves).

I call this "the Aljazeera effect". When a narrow and aggressive stage red/blue agenda has a tailored-made pretense for the purpose of recruitment of "useful idiots" with a communal/societal/civilizational void and severe vulnerability to emotional manipulation.

Aljazeera Arabic doesn't need to do this elaborate pretense and is comfortably open with their blatantly anti-Semitic agenda, Holocaust-denying and what more to stoke the passions and distract the riffraff masses in the region. 

At least it makes me feel so grateful that I am who I am and that my mind works a certain way. I saw your pictures, we have a beautiful country! 

Edited June 26 by Vrubel

[Gennadiy1981]

6 hours ago, Merkabah Star said:

@Gennadiy1981 You are what we call a bible thumper.. 🤡

the bible makes me snooze. I guess you could say you snooze, you lose. 😀

but even still, deeper answers lie within. 

🙏

And by the way you probably be surprised but in the temple that I sometimes attend, I am the most moderate one, indeed many call me a disbeliever or someone who rejects God. Some even threaten me with hell and that I am possessed by Satan. So in my circle I am a big disbeliever. I am really surrounded by deep stage blue people. But on the other hand I am also more exposed and joined other spiritual communities who are more into higher development stages. 
 

I actually have one fellow in the temple whom I communicate a lot with, he takes Bible literally for everything. He claims that it’s a sin to question God. If you would show him somewhere in the Bible that it’s God demands to jump off the bridge, he would not even question but quickly run to one and apologizing for not doing it sooner. 
 

so actually in my temple I am the least believer there. I now go sparingly there. It’s not that easy to brush off everything. 

[zazen]

3 hours ago, Vrubel said:

This is obviously aimed at Islamic immigrants because Germans don’t want to damage their societal fabric and cohesion more than they already did, which is understandable and absolutely in their right. 

 

Perhaps cohesion, perhaps conformity to state sanctioned opinion trampling on individual freedom of thought.

Sounds cohesive and not inflammatory at all to mandate a statement which rubs salt into the wound many immigrants feel who presently live in Germany and are yet to come. Particularly from the Middle East fleeing conflicts exacerbated by Western/Israeli foreign policy. They are asked to thumbs up a country they perceive played a part in or has been used as a tool by the military industrial complex to wage war on their homelands.

Some people may believe Israel doesn’t have a right to exist and that this fantasy can ever come true, but most just believe it doesn’t have the right to exist as it does - occupationally which has historically always led to conflict and bloody uprisings.

What Israel does have the right to is the right to remain silent, as it stands accused on the world stage - anything it says or does on a personal or political level will be held against it whether by the courts or by the consciousness of the world which it cares little for in its arrogance.

Edited June 26 by zazen

[Vrubel]

16 minutes ago, zazen said:

Perhaps cohesion, perhaps conformity to state sanctioned opinion trampling on individual freedom of thought.

Sounds cohesive and not inflammatory at all to mandate a statement which rubs salt into the wound many immigrants feel who presently live in and are yet to come. Particularly the Muslims fleeing conflicts exacerbated by Western/Israeli foreign policy. They are asked to thumbs up a country they perceive played a part in or has been used as a tool by the military industrial complex to wage war on their homelands.

What pampering bullshit. They are in GERMANY now. If they get their feelings hurt that they can't openly shout death to Israel, death to Jews they can stay in their home country or go somewhere else. When they move to Germany they ideally must take on a new loyalty dropping much of their Middle Eastern baggage including all the interethnic conflicts and hatred they have there.

[zazen]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

What pampering bullshit. They are in GERMANY now. If they get their feelings hurt that they can't openly shout death to Israel, death to Jews they can stay in their home country or go somewhere else. When they move to Germany they ideally must take on a new loyalty dropping much of their Middle Eastern baggage including all the interethnic conflicts and hatred they have there.

Hate speech laws already exist and rightfully so. But this isn’t about clamping down on hate, it’s about mandating acceptance, linguistic tyranny similar to forcing someone to utter a lie under duress. It’s like Jordan Peterson railing against the tyranny of compelled pronouns—except he wouldn’t be critical of this. 

It’s almost verbal and ideological assault to demand new citizens declare recognition of a state possibly implicated in their suffering and a contributing factor in them having to seek out citizenship in there the first place.

It’s just ironic that their right to reside in Germany hinges on a pledge to a state in the hot seat of the world court for genocide which is concluded to at least be plausible. The condition of citizenship is to declare recognition of a state who inflicts atrocious conditions on a stateless people - from a state which inflicted atrocious conditions on those people historically (Hitler and the Nazi regime)

Western elites love to bomb regions into the Stone Age, chest beat about how civilised and developed they are, then complain about people from those regions showing up to seek refuge from their actions.

Seems like Israel is the one being pampered and their feelings hurt because people don’t want to acknowledge or love them. They want to lawfully rape people into loving their glorious existence lol

Edited June 26 by zazen

[hundreth]

26 minutes ago, zazen said:

Hate speech laws already exist and rightfully so. But this isn’t about clamping down on hate, it’s about mandating acceptance, linguistic tyranny similar to forcing someone to utter a lie under duress. It’s like Jordan Peterson railing against the tyranny of compelled pronouns—except he wouldn’t be critical of this. 

It’s almost verbal and ideological assault to demand new citizens declare recognition of a state possibly implicated in their suffering and a contributing factor in them having to seek out citizenship in there the first place.

Western elites love to bomb regions into the Stone Age then chest beat about how civilised and developed they are. They complain about people coming to their shores when they went to theirs in past days to pillage them. The question never crosses their mind - if we are so developed and great why did we need to go to foreign lands across oceans so bad? They went to those shores long before modern day immigrants ever showed on Western shores.

It’s just ironic that their right to reside in Germany hinges on a pledge to a state in the hot seat of the world court for genocide which is concluded to at least be plausible. The condition is to declare this, based on a state who inflicts atrocious conditions on a stateless people.

Seems like Israel is the one being pampered and their feelings hurt because people don’t want to acknowledge or love them. They want to lawfully rape people into loving their glorious existence lol

You're missing one piece here, these aren't citizens - they are applicants.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/new-german-citizens-must-declare-israels-right-exist?nid=373676&topic=Israel%27s%20war%20on%20Gaza&fid=520481

Quote

On Tuesday, Germany enacted a landmark citizenship law that explicitly requires applicants to affirm the state of Israel’s right to exist.

“Anyone who shares our values and makes an effort can now get a German passport more quickly and no longer has to give up part of their identity by giving up their old nationality,” said interior minister Nancy Faeser on Tuesday.

They've determined this is a useful heuristic for them as to whether the applicant will be a good fit for them. There are likely many such questions. 

Edited June 26 by hundreth

[zazen]

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

You're missing one piece here, these aren't citizens - they are applicants.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/new-german-citizens-must-declare-israels-right-exist?nid=373676&topic=Israel%27s%20war%20on%20Gaza&fid=520481

They've determined this is a useful heuristic for them as to whether the applicant will be a good fit for them. There are likely many such questions. 

The heuristic and policy says more about the state than the applicant. It's a mirror that doesn't reflect the fitness of the applicant, but the insecurities of the state subverted by anthers politics to the point they politicise their own operations. Germans this time aren't subject to the actions of the state with many stars across the Atlantic ( US neutering Nord stream ) but to the state with one star across the Med ( who they have historic guilt over massacring )

It can also be counter productive and risk back lash - just look at Americans even amongst the right now questioning their figure heads about being America or Israel first. This enforced pampering of Israel makes natives question their leaders loyalties and interests.

Either way, applicants can just say what needs be said, and roam among Germany with fractured loyalties no one knows about. So what does it actually provide except a symbolic act to alleviate their historic guilt?  In trying to rectify the sins of its past, it just risks compromising its future.

Edited June 26 by zazen

[Nivsch]

@zazen How I see the new policy of Germany is fear based. Imagine your society been treatened to totally change by immigrants values system, then of course you would want to filter the radicals (oppose Israel very existance, as an exam litmus paper question) from the moderate majority. I won't say I would myself choosing that kind of strategy but it is very understandable to me from where it comes from. And this isn't against any race or group, apart that it tries to filter the radicals and unhealthy ideas.

Edited June 26 by Nivsch

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

The heuristic and policy says more about the state than the applicant. It's a mirror that doesn't reflect the fitness of the applicant, but the insecurities of the state subverted by anthers politics to the point they politicise their own operations. Germans this time aren't subject to the actions of the state with many stars across the Atlantic ( US neutering Nord stream ) but to the state with one star across the Med ( who they have historic guilt over massacring )

It can also be counter productive and risk back lash - just look at Americans even amongst the right now questioning their figure heads about being America or Israel first. This enforced pampering of Israel makes natives question their leaders loyalties and interests.

Either way, applicants can just say what needs be said, and roam among Germany with fractured loyalties no one knows about. So what does it actually provide except a symbolic act to alleviate their historic guilt?  In trying to rectify the sins of its past, it just risks compromising its future.

I would agree that this is likely a bad way to filter out applicants as they will simply do as you said. This is likely some kind of symbolic gesture, but driven by who I don't really know.

I don't have issue with Germany having cultural fit requirements for applicants, but gestures like this lead to more resentment than anything else. 

When you try to enforce ideas or practices like this, it tends to breed conspiratorial thinking. This was evident with vaccine rollouts in the U.S. and abroad, where even if the data backed up their efficacy there was widespread skepticism.

[Vrubel]

53 minutes ago, hundreth said:

 

I don't have issue with Germany having cultural fit requirements for applicants, but gestures like this lead to more resentment than anything else. 

 

Mua not really, it’s a perfectly reasonable thing to have in a citizenship test. That people will simply lie on them is of course an other, perhaps more broader issue.

You really have to be far off to be triggered by something this simple and seek some conspiracy behind this. 
 

 

 

[Danioover9000]

@zazen

3 hours ago, zazen said:

Hate speech laws already exist and rightfully so. But this isn’t about clamping down on hate, it’s about mandating acceptance, linguistic tyranny similar to forcing someone to utter a lie under duress. It’s like Jordan Peterson railing against the tyranny of compelled pronouns—except he wouldn’t be critical of this. 

It’s almost verbal and ideological assault to demand new citizens declare recognition of a state possibly implicated in their suffering and a contributing factor in them having to seek out citizenship in there the first place.

It’s just ironic that their right to reside in Germany hinges on a pledge to a state in the hot seat of the world court for genocide which is concluded to at least be plausible. The condition of citizenship is to declare recognition of a state who inflicts atrocious conditions on a stateless people - from a state which inflicted atrocious conditions on those people historically (Hitler and the Nazi regime)

Western elites love to bomb regions into the Stone Age, chest beat about how civilised and developed they are, then complain about people from those regions showing up to seek refuge from their actions.

Seems like Israel is the one being pampered and their feelings hurt because people don’t want to acknowledge or love them. They want to lawfully rape people into loving their glorious existence lol

True! Even if Germany feels a collective debt and mass white guilt to support Israel or show support, that doesn't mean they should support at 100%. They should exercise some critical thinking and only support parts of Israel that makes sense, and denounce parts of Israel like Likud party and Zionist Netanyahu in his mad pursuit of Palestinian 'assimilation' Also OMG the 3 and a half Zion paid actor stooges @Vrubel, @Nivsch, @Gennadiy1981, and the 1/ @hundreth all decide to gang up on @zazen and even @Twentyfirst and @Raze! At it again! Can mods tell them to behave a bit?

[Twentyfirst]

10 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@zazen

True! Even if Germany feels a collective debt and mass white guilt to support Israel or show support, that doesn't mean they should support at 100%. They should exercise some critical thinking and only support parts of Israel that makes sense, and denounce parts of Israel like Likud party and Zionist Netanyahu in his mad pursuit of Palestinian 'assimilation' Also OMG the 3 and a half Zion paid actor stooges @Vrubel, @Nivsch, @Gennadiy1981, and the 1/ @hundreth all decide to gang up on @zazen and even @Twentyfirst and @Raze! At it again! Can mods tell them to behave a bit?

Germany can't help it. They are still the same genocidal maniacs they were before. Why else would they support killing children in Gaza which has already been declared a genocide. Some things never change

[Gennadiy1981]

@Danioover9000 you are wrong about me. I am as neutral as it gets. So... how is your day going, care to share?