Israel / Palestine News Thread

[maxpechura]

Don't listen to Leo on Israel-Palestine.

You can't understand an obvious thing cause it's hiding in plain sight. Israel is an nation that stands as a monument of human achievement. Palestinians are not trying to create anything of value to anyone. 

You really should forget all this nonsense about West Bank settlements or whatever else.

In this world you're either something in fact or you aren't.

If someone built an advanced civilisation in the middle of nowhere and people around you have lived there for thousands of years and can only produce shit in the morning, you need to understand the significance of that.

Edited June 25 by maxpechura

[Danioover9000]

@maxpechura

15 minutes ago, maxpechura said:

Don't listen to Leo on Israel-Palestine.

You can't understand obvious thing cause it's hiding in plain sight. Israel is an incredible nation that stands as a monument of human achievement. Palestinians are  not trying to create anything of value to anyone. 

You really should forget all this nonsense about West Bank settlements or whatever else.

In this world you're either someone or you aren't.

If you build an advanced civilisation in the middle of nowhere and people around you have lived there for thousands of years and can only produce shit in the morning, you need to understand the significance of that.

   Ya hear that @Leo Gura? We shouldn't listen to your takes on Israel/Palestine conflict! You too biased and don't know enough they say!😂

[Merkabah Star]

12 minutes ago, maxpechura said:

Don't listen to Leo on Israel-Palestine.

You can't understand obvious thing cause it's hiding in plain sight. Israel is an incredible nation that stands as a monument of human achievement. Palestinians are  not trying to create anything of value to anyone. 

You really should forget all this nonsense about West Bank settlements or whatever else.

In this world you're either someone or you aren't.

If you build an advanced civilisation in the middle of nowhere and people around you have lived there for thousands of years and can only produce shit in the morning, you need to understand the significance of that.

This post is a great study on the Israeli ego/mindset. 

[Merkabah Star]

1 minute ago, Danioover9000 said:

@maxpechura

   Ya hear that @Leo Gura? We shouldn't listen to your takes on Israel/Palestine conflict! You too biased and don't know enough they say!😂

It’s an advanced civilisation. 😂😂

[Danioover9000]

@Raze

1 hour ago, Raze said:

- there is 0 indication continuing the war “saves more lives”, Hamas and other extremist groups recruit from orphans of Israeli attacks, they will have far more recruits after this. The current conflict is risking a larger war with Hezbollah as they are firing at Israel until there is a ceasefire, this has already killed israelis and a full scale war will kill far more. 

Prior to the war and if it ends Hamas is stuck inside Gaza and can only fire small rockets which get intercepted almost every single time. They only became a major threat because Israel left Gaza unguarded and they broke out.

- you aren’t considering what saves more lives, the war so far has killed or mutilated thousands of Palestinian civilians in Gaza and hundreds in the West Bank. Those are lives as well.
 

Then the ideology will spread and form a new potentially larger group which will commit similar or worse attacks on Israel, so the conflict would not have made Israel safer but rather less safe, similar to how their constant bombardments lead to the growth of Hamas 

The objective was to capture IDF and Israelis to trade for Palestinian prisoners. 
 

Israel chooses to order strikes that will kill civilians. See this information leaked to a israeli outlet from IDF:

 

1) since we both don’t know, let’s look at what the victims of Oct 7 say themselves

2) yes the rational is that rather than value life they seek death for political gain, not so different from hamas

1) the IDF already admitted it shot 3 hostages waving white flags

2) Hamas offered a ceasefire proposal, Israel rejected it, Israel offered a ceasefire proposal, Hamas accepted it, Israel rejected their own proposal 

3) Not exactly, for one most countries have not done what Israel did to Gaza such as blockading them and regularly bombing them. These are considered war crimes by many international courts.

Secondly Israel has already dropped more bombs in the small area of Gaza than dropped on London in all of ww2, and uses larger bombs and more unguided bombs than the USA does. 

4) Netanyahu already set the precedent by agreeing to trade hundreds of Palestinian prisoners for 1 captured IDF soldier, and later funding Hamas himself. Arguably it was done again during the temporary ceasefire.

Hamas did not ask for more, they are asking for an Israeli withdrawal, it makes no sense for them to agree to give the hostages back with no assurance Israel will stop attacking Gaza, they gain nothing otherwise.

We know what gets hostages back reliably. A ceasefire. If Israel doesn’t want it you are prioritizing something else over hostages lives, point blank. 

   Pretty reasonable push back, good job. They can only do few things back: deny, and maybe cite Game Theory or other worldly modals to further disassociate with what's actually happening in field, in the ground to Palestinians. 

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Merkabah Star said:

This post is a great study on the Israeli ego/mindset. 

You can say exactly the same on the ego of the opposite side so the ego claim is pointless as it common to everyone.

Edited June 25 by Nivsch

[Merkabah Star]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

You can say exactly the same on the ego of the opposite side so the ego claim is pointless as it common to everyone.

Thats a stretch. Keep trying though. 😀

[Twentyfirst]

This proves that anything built on an evil foundation is bound to be evil forever. Since they originally stole land by kicking people out of their homes (regardless of random white guys permission in UK) then anything and everything they do until the end of time on that land will be evil. No one state or two state solution. Drive these worthless cu*** into the sea. Understand where the Arab "terrorists" are coming from. 

[Nivsch]

32 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

This proves that anything built on an evil foundation is bound to be evil forever. Since they originally stole land by kicking people out of their homes (regardless of random white guys permission in UK) then anything and everything they do until the end of time on that land will be evil. No one state or two state solution. Drive these worthless cu*** into the sea. Understand where the Arab "terrorists" are coming from. 

And what this message is in your opinion?

(Regardless if its content true or not (of course not) doesnt matter at this moment)

Edited June 25 by Nivsch

[hundreth]

15 hours ago, Raze said:

- there is 0 indication continuing the war “saves more lives”, Hamas and other extremist groups recruit from orphans of Israeli attacks, they will have far more recruits after this. The current conflict is risking a larger war with Hezbollah as they are firing at Israel until there is a ceasefire, this has already killed israelis and a full scale war will kill far more. 

Prior to the war and if it ends Hamas is stuck inside Gaza and can only fire small rockets which get intercepted almost every single time. They only became a major threat because Israel left Gaza unguarded and they broke out.

- you aren’t considering what saves more lives, the war so far has killed or mutilated thousands of Palestinian civilians in Gaza and hundreds in the West Bank. Those are lives as well.

You cannot allow a group to come in, murder and kidnap your populace, and then reward them with a ceasefire and prisoner exchange. Which government on the planet will do that?? 

You absolutely need a response that hurts Hamas significantly. Did the IDF carry this out in the most careful way possible? I don't think so. Your proposal only trades short term peace for more long term turmoil. Westerners can't understand that you cannot show weakness like this in the Middle East. Quite frankly, no nation would respond the way you proposed. 

Quote

Then the ideology will spread and form a new potentially larger group which will commit similar or worse attacks on Israel, so the conflict would not have made Israel safer but rather less safe, similar to how their constant bombardments lead to the growth of Hamas 

Perhaps, there is also the possibility that a weakened Hamas creates a power void where other groups can take hold. This war could also lead to such international pressure on both sides that some form of progress is forced as opposed to the Hamas ceasefire / containment you proposed earlier. I feel it's better to rip the band aid off personally, but only if there is some positive outcome. 

Quote

The objective was to capture IDF and Israelis to trade for Palestinian prisoners. 

Then why did they murder in cold blood the vast majority of Israelis they encountered when they could have taken them all hostage? It's unlike the IDF who can't isolate Hamas militants. On Oct 7th, they were up close and personal with unprepared civilians which they had complete control over - and they chose to live stream horrific massacres instead of taking them all hostage.

But yes, they did take some for that purpose. 

Quote

Israel chooses to order strikes that will kill civilians. See this information leaked to a israeli outlet from IDF:

You're conflating different events, we were talking specifically about the hostage rescue mission. 

Quote

1) since we both don’t know, let’s look at what the victims of Oct 7 say themselves

2) yes the rational is that rather than value life they seek death for political gain, not so different from hamas

No one on the Israeli side seeks death. The most you can say about the Hannibal directive is that you're making a cold and logical decision during a horrific event to prevent the opposition from repeating said event. 

Hamas willfully sends innocent civilians on suicidal death missions and entrenches their operations in civilian quarters. 

The one thing I will agree with you on is that the IDF can be more careful about killing Palestinian civilians. That doesn't equate them to Hamas who go up and personal and murder civilians in cold blood en masse. 

[hundreth]

16 hours ago, Raze said:

The current conflict is risking a larger war with Hezbollah as they are firing at Israel until there is a ceasefire, this has already killed israelis and a full scale war will kill far more. 

I just wanted to add that on this specific point I think Israel made a tactical error by harming too many civilians vs militants. I believe if the IDF's ratio was better and they were more careful, both Hezbollah and the international community at large would understand. 

Even if Israel was walking on eggshells, there would still be tons of criticism - but not at the scale you see today.

[Nivsch]

Happy Pride Month (yet) in Tel Aviv 🎨

Edited June 25 by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

6 hours ago, Nivsch said:

And what this message is in your opinion?

(Regardless if its content true or not (of course not) doesnt matter at this moment)

I don't understand your question. But what I was saying was since the original birth of Israel was based on lies and terror then its bound to always be like that and will never change

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Twentyfirst said:

I don't understand your question. But what I was saying was since the original birth of Israel was based on lies and terror then its bound to always be like that and will never change

OK

[Gennadiy1981]

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

I just wanted to add that on this specific point I think Israel made a tactical error by harming too many civilians vs militants. I believe if the IDF's ratio was better and they were more careful, both Hezbollah and the international community at large would understand. 

Even if Israel was walking on eggshells, there would still be tons of criticism - but not at the scale you see today.

I dont think you should be so apologetic. Thats how any war is fought, if they dont like wars, then dont start one. Remember Hamas started the war, then they should accept consequences. If you are so into peace then dont start the attack first, i dont understand whats so complicated here. I think we are making a big deal out of nothing burger. 

And besides, the world would always criticize Israel no matter what, so its given, nothing to be surprised. You know in the former Soviet Unit there was an antisemitic poem why they hate Jews and the ending was like we hate Jews because they shot at Lenin and because they missed. Cause it was a Jewish menshivik (they were against Tzar but also against communism to take over), so of course the communist hated her for how dare she shot at Lenin, but then the anti communist said that its her fault, she should not have missed and killed him. You get the point, but basically was a quit poem like showing duality where Jews went wrong in Soviet Union. 

[Twentyfirst]

1 hour ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

I dont think you should be so apologetic. Thats how any war is fought, if they dont like wars, then dont start one. Remember Hamas started the war, then they should accept consequences. If you are so into peace then dont start the attack first, i dont understand whats so complicated here. I think we are making a big deal out of nothing burger. 

You can't keep saying that since Oct 7th every Israeli cried for sympathy over 1% of the destruction Israel has caused since. If you truly have this philosophy you guys wouldn't have been professional victim son Oct 7th. You're only putting that rule for the other side but not for yourself. If you cry like a little girl for 1,400 Israeli deaths imagine how it feels for the other side to be turned into a graveyard 

[Nivsch]

Leo I think you were right about the "decade long" fighting waiting for IDF (if it will continue the blind strategic-less way Netanyahu leads it) because I read that hamas enlist more and more young people to its lines and in this way the war really seems endless.

Edited June 25 by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

14 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Leo I think you were right about the "decade long" fighting waiting for IDF (if it will continue the blind strategic-less way Netanyahu leads it) because I read that hamas enlist more and more young people to its lines and in this way the war really seems endless.

The only way to get rid of Hamas is by getting rid of the injustice that caused them. Gay parades wont work. And they aren't young people they are orphans who watched their entire family get blown to bits

Edited June 25 by Twentyfirst

[Gennadiy1981]

Where did you see Leo saying on this thread or you mean in general? As I stand corrected and @Twentyfirst will agree with me, a truly peace will happen is when one will permanently leave. There is just no other way around. I mean its nice to see love and hugs but lets be realistic. Its not feasible and not possible. Its like having two men love one woman, they will never share her (well I personally would never done that and most will neither). We need to accept this reality. Anything else will guarantee a catastrophe. You want to play the game, fine, but the result will be the same. 

[Raze]

4 hours ago, hundreth said:

You cannot allow a group to come in, murder and kidnap your populace, and then reward them with a ceasefire and prisoner exchange. Which government on the planet will do that?? 

Israel has done this to Gaza countless times. 
 

4 hours ago, hundreth said:

You absolutely need a response that hurts Hamas significantly. Did the IDF carry this out in the most careful way possible? I don't think so. Your proposal only trades short term peace for more long term turmoil. Westerners can't understand that you cannot show weakness like this in the Middle East. Quite frankly, no nation would respond the way you proposed. 

- it’s entirely possible this only strengthens Hamas based on the worlds reaction

- what evidence do you have continuing the war creates long term peace where a ceasefire wouldn’t. If they go to war in Lebanon because of this will you continue this claim?

- Israel’s attempts to show “strength” over and over are exactly what resulted in Oct 7. You’re just insisting Israel continue its now proven failed policies.
On the other hand the last time Israel attempted peace with with Oslo accords got the PLO to eventually give up armed resistance.

4 hours ago, hundreth said:

Perhaps, there is also the possibility that a weakened Hamas creates a power void where other groups can take hold. This war could also lead to such international pressure on both sides that some form of progress is forced as opposed to the Hamas ceasefire / containment you proposed earlier. I feel it's better to rip the band aid off personally, but only if there is some positive outcome. 

Again, what is your proof this is “ripping the bandaid off”, when IDF themselves are saying they can’t completely beat Hamas.

Why will the “ripping the bandaid off” strategy work here now when it failed before. There were groups preceding Hamas Israel destroyed, they also destroyed Hamas entire leadership before. Yet here we are.

 

4 hours ago, hundreth said:

Then why did they murder in cold blood the vast majority of Israelis they encountered when they could have taken them all hostage? It's unlike the IDF who can't isolate Hamas militants. On Oct 7th, they were up close and personal with unprepared civilians which they had complete control over - and they chose to live stream horrific massacres instead of taking them all hostage.

The same reason Israel doesn’t just arrest everyone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine

4 hours ago, hundreth said:

No one on the Israeli side seeks death. The most you can say about the Hannibal directive is that you're making a cold and logical decision during a horrific event to prevent the opposition from repeating said event. 

Hamas willfully sends innocent civilians on suicidal death missions and entrenches their operations in civilian quarters. 

The one thing I will agree with you on is that the IDF can be more careful about killing Palestinian civilians. That doesn't equate them to Hamas who go up and personal and murder civilians in cold blood en masse. 

1. When Hamas sacrifices Palestinians, they use the same justification, a cold calculating decision

2. I already linked you a IDF leak saying they purposefully wait until the suspected militant leaves military operations and fire on their home 

3. IDF have used human shields multiple times 

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_use_palestinian_girl_as_a_human_shield_in_jenin

https://www.dci-palestine.org/israeli_forces_use_five_palestinian_children_as_human_shields

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/israel-gaza-idf-used-palestinians-as-human-shields-1200-occasions-in-last-five-years-say-israeli-defence-officials/30483468.html