Israel / Palestine News Thread

[hundreth]

6 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

PLO is ok no? I seen some interviews with them and they seem not less reasonable than your centralist Israeli. Husan Zomlot, Mustafa Bourgouti, Majed Bayma etc. They seem fine to me. If they are not PLO my mistake. These guys seem fine to me I mean.

The issue isn't these specific leaders per se. You have to realize that the Palestinian population at large will not accept the deal. They have been promised for decades the annihilation of Israel and that Jews are their sworn mortal enemies.  They seek justice, not statehood.

This was made clear decades ago when Arafat and his delegation went through the work to negotiate all the terms, but ultimately reached a dead end because he simply couldn't do it. 

It would require transcendent leadership from both sides to actually make it happen. The populations of both nations need to be on board. 

Edited June 22 by hundreth

[Gennadiy1981]

16 minutes ago, zazen said:

@Gennadiy1981 From your comment above you seem to understand awakening, mysticism and the nature of God and what stage blue religion is but then you still take scripture literally when you said previously that the land is for the Jews because God says so. You also take prophecy of Armageddon as a truth?

Israel/Palestine thread always gets lit on the weekends.

Thank you I will take it as a compliment. Well so you need to know more about me. So I am a former Orthodox Jew, so that would tell you a lot, it’s not that easy to drop old belief in a nutshell. But at the same time I think I am one of the few who actually watched two of the Leo’s 5 hour podcast with Curt Jaimungal about God conciseness and awakening. It’s still available on YouTube, but I do not watch it religiously but to verify what I experience using psychedelics. Or other Leo’s videos, I truly appreciate his understanding of awakening and I am not saying to sort of to show off, but he really can guide people into such depth that most teachers cannot even scratch the surface. 
 

And so you should know, I still have a lot of orthodox and even ultra Orthodox Jews whom I am trying to instill the higher level of God concusouenss and by the way I even convinced few to attend Ayhuasca ceremony believe it or not. Actually I don’t like to brag about this idea, but I took my Rabbi, who is Orthodox and wears a black hat, I took him to an Ayhuasca ceremony, twice actually, and you know what, everyone in my community were shocked when he decoded to go to Ecuador for a retreat with natives to take more plant medicines. People in my community were in uproar, but I was very glad that I help to open that path. 
 

so another thing is, for example, in one of my many awakenings I saw the idea of solipsism, that only I exist and I am God. That idea was very radical to me and many would close, but if I personally experienced, then why not to believe in it. Same goes for the Bible, again I happen to study bubble pretty well, I can tell you, a lot of things there are chilling and prophetic, how can I brush off all those things, it would be very hypocritical  of me. And finally, you need to understand, I have a skin in the game, it is about me, not to mention I used to live in former Soviet Union where I was told to get the hell out of it as I didn’t belong there, so these coupled together I guess you can say still does not allow me to grow to higher stages or maybe I did grow but still bring other stages with me. Don’t forget when it comes to survival a lot of things can go out the window and you can quickly jump to lower stages. But take Israel outside the picture, we can have a totally diffent conversation. 
 

For example, I think United States is amazing country that no matter what people say that it’s racist, I believe it Turks integrated everyone and its a great  opportunity for everyone in terms of everything. It’s truly a country that values everyone equally.

[zazen]

3 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

However, thank God Israel exists and here to stay, not because USA and Jews want, it’s because God said so. You know few mention here about the Bible and why I keep bringing, here what I want to respond. I noticed the more I walk away from the Bible the more it follows me, so instead of fighting it, I embrace it. I know this whole thing is illogical against awakening, but you can’t brush off prophesies away.

For example, my grandma of blessed memory who was born in 1929, used to share with me her atheists views. She was questioning the prophets who said the final war at the end of days will be over Jerusalem. Now when she was born, at that time Israel was still desert type and unurbanized. And to say that the WW3 would be there would be unthinkable, who would fight over desolate place. But notice the more we go into the future the more Israel is standing out and now almost hundred years after my grandma was born, the WW3 might precisely start over Jerusalem. So how can I brush off a prophecy even if I am working on enlightenment. 

Fundamentalist religious people (shadow of stage blue) take end time prophecies that are myth as literal, and self fulfil them into existence to hasten whatever good they are promised from it (coming of a Messiah and the return of Jesus).

Many problems come from taking myth that is fiction for a fact that is literal, not realising that the value of fiction is in its functionality, rather than its factuality.

Fundamentalists view prophets as the spokespeople of God, rather than the spokesperson on God. As if prophets have a direct hotline to God and lecture us Gods message - when existence is a conversation not a lecture.

Prophets are cosmic philosophers, not cosmic commanders. The movie series Dune actually shows quite well how fundamentalists belief in prophecy and prophets are used for political ends and power.

That doesn’t deny there were prophets who awakened to certain degrees. It’s just important to remember that they were speaking to and from their own time. Treating them as eternal mouthpieces of God ignores the context, culture and limitations of their era.

Forget the military-industrial complex; the power-prophecy-profits complex, which intertwines with religion, is far more dangerous. Daniel Schmachtenberger discusses the concept of “Moloch” as a metaphor for competitive systems that are destructive not due to a deliberate intent to destroy but because of incentives that drive us toward destruction. In the power-prophecy-profits complex, the prophecy element includes an intent to fulfill those prophecies that steer us towards WW3.

** Thanks for providing your life story above to get where you’re coming from.

Edited June 22 by zazen

[Raze]

9 hours ago, Vrubel said:

It's true that we had to show a certain "excellence" in survival and couldn't afford to fall into riffraff but even so, we got the Holocaust because we didn't have our state and army.  

You don’t bother calling out the more blatant anti-semites among your ranks so this tells me enough. You don't have to but spare me then your pretense of caring about the Jewish people. If you truly cared about Jews you would at the very least have a healthy respect and appreciation for Israel. Reflecting your logic back: I only like Arabs when they share or confirm my specific worldview and are not of the Palestinian identity. 

I post examples of Jews being critical of Israel in this thread precisely to reduce antisemitism. It isn’t enough to counter when people like you borderline celebrate mass murder in the name of Jews. 
 

What I advocate for are the rights of everyone including Israelis, their policies have only put themselves and Jews in danger no matter how much you insist it’s supporting Jews. 
 

9 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@Raze Numbers aren't an indication to almost anything in a war of western democracy against guerilla when the motivations and intentions of both sides are completely opposite.

 Palestinians are desperate and boxed in trying to not be totally removed, whereas Israel has far more options, resources, and is motivated by open ethnic cleansing, if anything what Israel does is worse even putting aside numbers.

[Twentyfirst]

Jews will write paragraphs and paragraphs and beg for sympathy and take discussions in complete circles with their incoherent arguments simply because they can't state one simple fact. You guys stole homes and lands that were not yours. Its not complicated 

[Vrubel]

3 hours ago, Raze said:

I post examples of Jews being critical of Israel in this thread precisely to reduce antisemitism. It isn’t enough to counter when people like you borderline celebrate mass murder in the name of Jews. 
 

What I advocate for are the rights of everyone including Israelis, their policies have only put themselves and Jews in danger no matter how much you insist it’s supporting Jews. 

That’s like me sharing the Green Prince and other pro-Israel Arab media personalities and saying I am fighting Islamophobia. 

All you do is just spew your pre-packaged narrative courtesy of the hive mind. I assume you're one of those more gentle and idealist stage green people just being taken for a ride. 

Edited June 22 by Vrubel

[Loveeee]

 

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, Raze said:

Palestinians are desperate and boxed in trying to not be totally removed, whereas Israel has far more options, resources, and is motivated by open ethnic cleansing, if anything what Israel does is worse even putting aside numbers.

As long as this subconscious discrimination is keep going in a way that Palestinians are viewed here as poor helpless animals and Israelis are human beings then of course you will exempt them from any responsibility under this skewed view.

Edited June 22 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

13 hours ago, Vrubel said:

@Nivsch Do you notice that these people cannot say: "Yes, 7/10 was absolutely inexcusable, an absolute vile display of animalistic savagery. I acknowledge the scale and variety of depraved crimes committed on that day and integrate that reality with my opinions and worldview." 

They always act slippery and do false equivalencies on the issue as if fully acknowledging the truth of 7/10 would shatter their worldview. 

There is indeed an emotional numbness oftentimes here when it comes to oct7th.

Edited June 22 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

12 hours ago, Vrubel said:

So why are there still millions of Palestinians on their land? Arabs in every corner of Israel

+1 ❤️

[Vrubel]

23 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

There is indeed an emotional numbness oftentimes here when it comes to oct7th.

Not even that. The raw truth and nature of what happened during the attack does not register and is always deflected in a way to always circle back to their narrative. They deny it, say we're lying and weaponize 7/10 for their own narrative. I would actually understand if they simply didn't feel much for it because It's impossible to be emotionally attached to everyone on this earth, so maybe they don't care about Israelis, which is fine but if you're so passionate about the topic and you're the virtue signaling type and not the Islamist type why not integrate that truth along? Why is it so threatening to those particular people?  

I think I know the answer. 

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

Not even that. The raw truth and nature of what happened during the attack does not register and is always deflected in a way to always circle back to their narrative. They deny it, say we're lying and weaponize 7/10 for their own narrative. I would actually understand if they simply didn't feel much for it because It's impossible to be emotionally attached to everyone on this earth, so maybe they don't care about Israelis, which is fine but if you're so passionate about the topic and you're the virtue signaling type and not the Islamist type why not integrate that truth along? Why is it so threatening to those particular people?  

I think I know the answer. 

Yes I agree with you.

Edited June 22 by Nivsch

[Merkabah Star]

Candace Owen hosts comedians Ami Kozak and Dave Smith to discuss the Israel/Palestine debate.

 

Edited June 22 by Merkabah Star

[Danioover9000]

@Loveeee

3 hours ago, Loveeee said:

 

   Damn, Bibi really thirsty for that Rafa invasion...even that army spokeperson was being honest, Bibi and Likud party is refusing to face the reality of their actions...

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

As long as this subconscious discrimination is keep going in a way that Palestinians are viewed here as poor helpless animals and Israelis are human beings then of course you will exempt them from any responsibility under this skewed view.

   So it's irresponsible for peace talks, ceasefires from Palestinians trying to avoid a genocide, when the majority of those deals being turned down come from Israel???

   And yeah, hello? Palestine was demilitarized and destabilized from being a proper state by Israel, duh! Obviously they're kind of helpless now, even to HAMAs they cannot overthrow!

[Karmadhi]

9 hours ago, hundreth said:

The issue isn't these specific leaders per se. You have to realize that the Palestinian population at large will not accept the deal. They have been promised for decades the annihilation of Israel and that Jews are their sworn mortal enemies.  They seek justice, not statehood.

This was made clear decades ago when Arafat and his delegation went through the work to negotiate all the terms, but ultimately reached a dead end because he simply couldn't do it. 

It would require transcendent leadership from both sides to actually make it happen. The populations of both nations need to be on board. 

Alright fair points. I have seen on news that Bibi tried to sabotage the Oslo accords and there was some stuff going on behind the scenes but to be honest I am not informed enough. If the people I wrote above would be Palestinian leaders, I think this issue would be solved (assuming Israel has good leadership too).

We non Israelis are presented this view that Hamas runs Gaza and they are bad and PLO runs West Bank and they are pro peace victims that are getting oppressed by Ben Gvir and company. This is the image portrayed. Just to let you know how people see it.

Edited June 22 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

3 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Not even that. The raw truth and nature of what happened during the attack does not register and is always deflected in a way to always circle back to their narrative. They deny it, say we're lying and weaponize 7/10 for their own narrative. I would actually understand if they simply didn't feel much for it because It's impossible to be emotionally attached to everyone on this earth, so maybe they don't care about Israelis, which is fine but if you're so passionate about the topic and you're the virtue signaling type and not the Islamist type why not integrate that truth along?

Scope dude. Please. Scope. When Israelis killed a similar amount of people in the past as civilians dying on october nobody said much either.

If Hamas had killed 15.000 kids and 40.000 civilians then people would be reacting differently.

Also the footage makes a big difference. The footage from October 7th is being disclosed and shown only to some journalists, compared to the footage from Gaza which everyone can see.

 

[Twentyfirst]

The zionists on this forum love to make it seem like they will fight to their last breath to stay in their "ancestral homeland" when in reality they are just in their homes being protected by the worlds largest armies. They are too big of cowards to actually fight for themselves 

[Twentyfirst]

Why don't you guys actually step out onto the battlefield? Cowards!!!!

[Nivsch]

A market in Gaza. Weaken the claims about "starving" there, what though could be the case for couple of weeks in February or March when humanitarian aid was indeed lessen temporary then, and caused different degrees of more hunger to the weaker sectors of their society.

Edited June 22 by Nivsch