Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Twentyfirst]

11 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Gennadiy1981

   GTFO my back stalker, and save your apologia nonsense. Go save your country from the Likud party Zionists, instead of throwing at me a wall of text!

He's a genocider that talks about love frequencies. What a sight to see ahaha

[Twentyfirst]

[Danioover9000]

@Twentyfirst

Just now, Twentyfirst said:

   He actually an Atheist?!😭

5 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

He's a genocider that talks about love frequencies. What a sight to see ahaha

   It is what it is I guess...

[Vrubel]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

 

He actually an Atheist?!😭

   It is what it is I guess...

The whole Zionist movement was secular, the land is also Jewish by history after all. That's also why Israel is built on Western democratic values. 

The beauty is that Theodor Herzl wasn't being blindly ideological and dogmatic. He wanted what was best to ensure the survival, resilience and well-being of the Jewish people. He was first convinced that the answer was full integration into liberal European societies but changed his mind after witnessing the Dreyfus Affair where the most liberal nation on earth at the time, France, experienced a violent outburst of anti-semitism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_affair
 
Zionism, Jews and Israel and its society is very hard to understand for many people because it's very historically exceptional and an outlier in many ways. I've traveled all over the world but there is truly no place like Israel, not even close. It's absolutely laughable how people so confidently claim they know best on the issue. 

@Nivsch Truly nothing like a Tel Aviv sunset(;

Edited June 20 by Vrubel

[Nemra]

@Vrubel

Being blinded by nationalism is different than seeing a beautiful sunset.

Nationalists love to put nationalism before nature and not after.

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

The whole Zionist movement was secular, the land is also Jewish by history after all. That's also why Israel is built on Western democratic values. 

If Israel did the 1 state solution and basically annexed the West Bank (it currently occupies it, just like Russia occupies Eastern Ukraine), would Palestinians living there have voting rights?

It is ironic that Russia, as bad as it is, still gives Russian passports and all to Ukranians it illegaly occupies and Israel does not.

Democracy? How? Democracy is that everyone within greater Israel has same voting rights and is entitled to an Israeli passport.

If I am missing something let me know.

[Karmadhi]

12 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Like last year I really got sucked into the October 7th tell you the truth and I felt that it really bothered me to continue living especially with conspiracy theories that government perhaps allowed this or something.

I didnt see anyone on the forum say that. Unless I missed something. It does circulate online this theory but I did not see it being seriously mentioned here. But you can fill me in if i am mistaken.

12 hours ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

As @Karmadhi pointed out, it’s just a dialogue and difference of opinions here, that’s really all. Remember love is much higher frequency that hate. 

To be honest man, I tend to see people in positive ways but some of the stuff you write here is downright genocidal. I find it very disturbing.

Advocating ethnic cleansing for example is below the standard of this forum.

So is quoting religious books to justify something.

Or equating the finger nail of 1 person with the lives of hundreds of thousands of children just because that finger nail belongs to someone who is "your people".

It is purely Stage Blue level of thinking and I expect higher standards from this forum.

Edited June 20 by Karmadhi

[Twentyfirst]

@Danioover9000 They don't believe in a god. They just believe that god promised them material stuff

[zazen]

Israel can’t allow Gaza and West Bank to come under its democratic umbrella of sovereignty because it won’t be a majority Jewish ethno-state.  But at the same time they can’t allow those two territories to go their own way so they are left in limbo with West Bank being permanently sat on by Israel’s occupational ass cheeks and Gaza getting visited frequently by bombs sent from Tel Aviv - baptised and blessed by messianic Neo cons. 

I can’t envision Israel even relinquishing control of West Bank because that has more holy heritage than even Israel proper and is not filled with urban centrist Israelis who may empathise enough to negotiate - but by settlers who are way more right wing fundamentalist and now armed by the gov.

Thats not even getting started on the logistical hurdle of West Bank being at a higher vantage point putting Israel in the cross hairs of a possible future Palestinian state that are armed. They’d demand a de-militarised West Bank which Palestinians would most likely never agree to either as it’s not fully sovereign - and after all they’ve dealt with they’d feel more entitled to be armed in order to defend against a group they can’t trust after decades of bad  blood.

@Danioover9000 Wish I got a love letter from Zion like yourself 😂

Edited June 20 by zazen

[hundreth]

14 minutes ago, zazen said:

Israel can’t allow Gaza and West Bank to come under its democratic umbrella of sovereignty because it won’t be a majority Jewish ethno-state.  But at the same time they can’t allow those two territories to go their own way so they are left in limbo with West Bank being permanently sat on by Israel’s occupational ass cheeks and Gaza getting visited frequently by bombs sent from Tel Aviv - baptised and blessed by messianic Neo cons. 

I can’t envision Israel even relinquishing control of West Bank because that has more holy heritage than even Israel proper and is not filled with urban centrist Israelis who may empathise enough to negotiate - but by settlers who are way more right wing fundamentalist and now armed by the gov.

Thats not even getting started on the logistical hurdle of West Bank being at a higher vantage point putting Israel in the cross hairs of a possible future Palestinian state that were armed. They’d demand a de-militarised West Bank which Palestinians would most likely never agree to either as it’s not fully sovereign - and after all they’ve dealt they feel ever more entitled to arms to defend against a group they don’t trust.

@Danioover9000 Wish I got a love letter from Zion like yourself 😂

Yes, for the most part accurate. Though, it's easy to forget though how close we were 20 something years ago. This is an interesting interview with Dennis Ross who was the American ambassador during those negotiations. 

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/19/1207243717/23-years-ago-israelis-and-palestinians-were-talking-about-a-two-state-solution

Quote

DETROW: So you have serious meetings, lasting meetings. You have this sense of momentum. We are finally talking about this issue. You have, at the very end of the administration, this plan comes forward - one final attempt. Here are the parameters. How close did you come to peace? How close did this come to being real?

ROSS: Well, to be honest, we were even - I came, later on, to appreciate we were even closer than I thought. When President Clinton presented the Clinton Parameters to the two sides at the White House on December 22, 2000, and after five days, the Barak government came back - said they approved the parameters. They had some reservations, but the reservations were within the parameters. So on January 2, we had Arafat come to the White House, and he didn't say yes. He basically was willing to discuss all the areas where the Israelis were making concessions. He wasn't willing to discuss any of the areas where the Palestinians were supposed to make concessions. So it seemed like he had just said no.

But what I subsequently learned - about 18 months ago, I had a dinner with a former Palestinian negotiator who'd been part of the delegation. He said the whole Palestinian delegation had decided among themselves they should accept it. They went back to Arafat, and Arafat said no. I subsequently heard from another Palestinian on that delegation who said Arafat thought he could still do a better deal under Bush because he thought maybe Bush will be even more forthcoming.

And the struggle is what defined Arafat. He was prepared to do limited deals because they didn't require him to do something definitive. Arafat was someone who never closed doors, never closed options. The idea of ending the conflict was a step that was too far for him. In retrospect, I think we should have gone for a less ambitious approach and created the circumstances so his successor could have done something that he wasn't up to doing.

 

[Danioover9000]

@Vrubel

3 hours ago, Vrubel said:

The whole Zionist movement was secular, the land is also Jewish by history after all. That's also why Israel is built on Western democratic values. 

The beauty is that Theodor Herzl wasn't being blindly ideological and dogmatic. He wanted what was best to ensure the survival, resilience and well-being of the Jewish people. He was first convinced that the answer was full integration into liberal European societies but changed his mind after witnessing the Dreyfus Affair where the most liberal nation on earth at the time, France, experienced a violent outburst of anti-semitism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_affair
 
Zionism, Jews and Israel and its society is very hard to understand for many people because it's very historically exceptional and an outlier in many ways. I've traveled all over the world but there is truly no place like Israel, not even close. It's absolutely laughable how people so confidently claim they know best on the issue. 

@Nivsch Truly nothing like a Tel Aviv sunset(;

   Yes, Zionism is hard to understand because of it's hyper right wing views and nationalism. Nobody in most cases ever want to understand such a racist ideology to begin with.

   Spare me the traveled across the world. I can play that game to, and I actually have traveled to several cultures and countries like: UK, USA, Canada, Quebec, Indonesia, Brazil, and even Israel. Yes, even your country, and what do I see? Boring AF place! Been to many interesting places and some natural locations, and I can tell you there are stranger places that outlive Israel. BTW I would never, EVER, proclaim that Jerusalem is such a holy place. Why? Because nearby in the region of Gehenna, they practiced live sacrificing of child by burning them alive to a god named Moloch, so in my humble opinion, you lot claim it sacred, I claim it degenerate and CURSED! That whole region is a bunch of EVIL! Pure and utter EVILRY! Honestly both Israel and Palestine should ideally leave that region due to that Moloch being there. It's making both sides sick minded, fighting over pieces of rock that is soaked with the charred remains of sacrificed children.

[Vrubel]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

Wish I got a love letter from Zion like yourself 😂

No love letter to you
The same message but only the dry truth without the passion:
 

The Zionist movement was primarily secular, rooted in the historical connection of the Jewish people to the land. Consequently, Israel was founded on Western democratic values.

Theodor Herzl, a pivotal figure in the Zionist movement, sought to ensure the survival and well-being of the Jewish people. Initially, he believed that full integration into liberal European societies was the answer. However, his perspective shifted after the Dreyfus Affair, which exposed deep-seated anti-Semitism in France, then considered one of the most liberal nations. Learn more about the Dreyfus Affair.

Understanding Zionism, Jewish identity, and Israeli society can be challenging due to their historically unique nature. Israel's distinctiveness often defies common comparisons, making it difficult to fully grasp from an external viewpoint.

Courtesy of Chatgtp

[Nivsch]

@Danioover9000 A boring place cannot cause such emotional charge to it 

Edited June 20 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Vrubel said:

Nivsch Truly nothing like a Tel Aviv sunset(;

I got addicted to the port-boardwalk routh.

[Vrubel]

42 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

and even Israel. Yes, even your country, and what do I see? Boring AF place!

Damn.. that tells me more about you. Learn to be a bit more passionate, less cynical and judgemental I guess. I can describe Israel with a whole lot of words but boring definitely not one of them. Life is just so much more raw in Israel. I would say living in W. Europe can be comparatively boring. 

34 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I got addicted to the port-boardwalk routh.

I definitely understand why, it's absolutely stunning. I also like the Yarkon Park gardens and the wild Jackals running around there. 

Edited June 20 by Vrubel

[Danioover9000]

@Vrubel

8 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Damn.. that tells me more about you. Learn to be a bit more passionate, less cynical and judgemental I guess. I can describe Israel with a whole lot of words but boring definitely not one of them. Life is so much more raw in Israel. I would say living in W. Europe can be comparatively boring. 

I definitely understand why, it's absolutely stunning. I also like the Yarkon Park gardens and the wild Jackals running around there. 

   I intentionally describe Israel as a boring place. Why? Because you lot are way too overzealous over a piece of rocks and lands that was Gehenna, the site of live sacrificing of children via burned alive for a god named Moloch. It's intentionally boring to really show the stark contrast of these hyper emotional states you Zionists feel, a bunch of crybabies over a boring place! I want you lot to feel like fixing yourselves and this place that's boring. Fighting over lands you lot slowly steal from Palestinians, realize how boring it is in the first place. It's so boring that spilling blood and suffering and misery to colour the soils and to liven the rocks with life right, to escape how the land and the place is just so boring? Realize all that you lot have done. I hope god have mercy on you lots souls, so much meaningless suffering over a bunch of boring rocks. The madness of you Zionists, you racist right wing loonies! Fix yourselves up, you all are not worthy of western democracy at all!

[Nivsch]

@Danioover9000 Where have you been in Israel?

Edited June 20 by Nivsch

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

@Danioover9000 A boring place cannot cause such emotional charge to it 

Lol if you can't have fun or find something interesting in Israel as a tourist, that's just sad.

[zazen]

3 hours ago, hundreth said:

Yes, for the most part accurate. Though, it's easy to forget though how close we were 20 something years ago. This is an interesting interview with Dennis Ross who was the American ambassador during those negotiations. 

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/19/1207243717/23-years-ago-israelis-and-palestinians-were-talking-about-a-two-state-solution

 

Insightful. Tragic that it can just take one stubborn person to undo collective effort.

[zazen]

2 hours ago, Vrubel said:

No love letter to you
The same message but only the dry truth without the passion:
 

The Zionist movement was primarily secular, rooted in the historical connection of the Jewish people to the land. Consequently, Israel was founded on Western democratic values.

Theodor Herzl, a pivotal figure in the Zionist movement, sought to ensure the survival and well-being of the Jewish people. Initially, he believed that full integration into liberal European societies was the answer. However, his perspective shifted after the Dreyfus Affair, which exposed deep-seated anti-Semitism in France, then considered one of the most liberal nations. Learn more about the Dreyfus Affair.

Courtesy of Chatgtp

Lol, maybe if it’s written on a explosive projectile and I got a Hamas tunnel a million miles from me you’ll send me one 😂 

Israel and the West love to talk about their common values. The tragedy is that both Western Christianity and Judaism (Islam included) have profound ethical teachings about justice, compassion, and human dignity. But they get overshadowed by vested interests with darker motives.

The positive “common values” become a cloak bad agents wear to commit their crimes. Both sides share mythic tales of being "chosen” - using ancient texts to justify modern atrocities. They wave the white flag of peace and self-defence, which the world now sees as a red flag of hypocrisy, soaked in blood.

The Christians had their "Manifest Destiny," a God-given right to steamroll over native populations in lands far away from home. The Zionists have their "Promised Land," a cosmic real estate deed they use to justify bulldozing Palestinian homes and planting settlers like weeds in occupied territory.

Divine selection breeds a toxic superiority complex that makes Darwinian selection look like child’s play. To think one’s own group won the cosmic jackpot to be gods favourite - allows them to view themselves as the protagonists in a cosmic drama, with everyone else as expendable.

The ideas of ‘divine mandate’ and ‘promised land’ can easily become license to operate outside the bounds of international law and basic human decency.

Edited June 20 by zazen