Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Merkabah Star]

22 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Wow, such wisdom such class. The fact that you get off on that tells me more about you. 

 

Get a sense of humour, stop feeling superior all the time. 

[Nivsch]

[Karmadhi]

@Nivsch Can you please answer my question?

It came from genioune curioustiy not criticism.

[Vrubel]

43 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

Get a sense of humour, stop feeling superior all the time. 

Me superior? It's good that you have some self-awareness but if you improve your thinking on the issue you won't have to feel so insecure.  

Edited June 10 by Vrubel

[Merkabah Star]

25 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Me superior? It's good that you have some self-awareness but if you improve your thinking on the issue you won't have to feel so insecure.  

At least we got a smile out of you, i will take that as a win. 🤡

[Karmadhi]

59 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Me superior? It's good that you have some self-awareness but if you improve your thinking on the issue you won't have to feel so insecure.  

What is interesting is that if most of us would talk about most other topics, we would greatly agree.

This one tends to seperate us a lot.

And it is because some of you have direct skin in the game.

[Gennadiy1981]

1 minute ago, Karmadhi said:

What is interesting is that if most of us would talk about most other topics, we would greatly agree.

This one tends to seperate us a lot.

And it is because some of you have direct skin in the game.

Hell yes, I have a direct skin in the game cause it concerns my survival. Dude you don’t know what it means to be a refuge, we had to run away once Soviet Union collapsed and you don’t know what it means to be worse cuter in other countries, and yes as a Jew I was persecuted there and it came to such a point that I told my parents I don’t want to go to school anymore cause it got so bad. So yes I have a personal skin in the game, it’s my survival here at stake. So I will do anything to keep Israel strong and powerful even if we have to transfer another population out of it. Yes to answer your question because never again do I want to go through the same shit again. You don’t know and can’t judge when you are not wanted in a country that everyone tells you to get the hell out of it. So don’t say that.

But sure we do agree on most things. I truly appreciate human development and spiral dynamics, I am really fascinated at the universal consciousness and how psychedelics open you up so you can see so vivid and deep. 

I will go even one step further, if all borders would melt, then I don’t mind having my border melt, but you need to understand when it comes for self survival, all the stages go down. Leo mentioned it in his two part series of 9 stages of human development. That’s just a reality. But take away this conflict, of course I want peace, of course I want love, I want everyone to be together, you know how beautiful it is when I attended say ayahuasca ceremonies and where everyone come under same roof, does not matter the color or religious identity or national background, it looks very nice that we are all human and we all share and yearning for the universal love and how we are all interconnected with each other.

[Karmadhi]

6 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

Hell yes, I have a direct skin in the game cause it concerns my survival. Dude you don’t know what it means to be a refuge, we had to run away once Soviet Union collapsed and you don’t know what it means to be worse cuter in other countries, and yes as a Jew I was persecuted there and it came to such a point that I told my parents I don’t want to go to school anymore cause it got so bad. So yes I have a personal skin in the game, it’s my survival here at stake. So I will do anything to keep Israel strong and powerful even if we have to transfer another population out of it. Yes to answer your question because never again do I want to go through the same shit again. You don’t know and can’t judge when you are not wanted in a country that everyone tells you to get the hell out of it. So don’t say that.

Dude, nobody is saying Israel should dissapear and all the Jews from there go back to Europe. You are the one wanting Palestinians to fuck off from their own land. Cant you see how crazy that is! Why dont you do the 2 state solution and everyone lives and chills in their state. Issue is Israel wants land more than it wants peace. Their actions are inflammatory to peace. Especially West Bank ILLEGAL settlements.

Here is a solution for you: Recognize Palestine according to 1960s borders, kick out all the illegal settlers and leave in Israel and chill there. 

6 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

I truly appreciate human development and spiral dynamics, I am really fascinated at the universal consciousness and how psychedelics open you up so you can see so vivid and deep.

You dont seem to appreciate Palestinians though.

Edited June 10 by Karmadhi

[Nivsch]

@Karmadhi You can see objectively in Wikipedia how many knesset members Ben Gvir and Smutrich parties got. Edit Ok I checked now 6+7 together 13 out of 120 which means ~11% of the population.

Edited June 10 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

57 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Karmadhi You can see objectively in Wikipedia how many knesset members Ben Gvir and Smutrich parties got. Edit Ok I checked now 6+7 together 13 out of 120 which means ~11% of the population.

Not that many. It is crazy that they have such key positions considering how little they represent.

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Not that many. It is crazy that they have such key positions considering how little they represent.

Yes this is the problem with our method when every crazy knesset member can threaten to leave the coalition with all of his party members if the prime minister won't listen to him, so there is a lot of exortion here and kind of a tail that leads the dog. Every coalition which its members amount reduces to 60 or below will collapse and Israel will go to elections.

Edited June 10 by Nivsch

[Gennadiy1981]

7 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Dude, nobody is saying Israel should dissapear and all the Jews from there go back to Europe. You are the one wanting Palestinians to fuck off from their own land. Cant you see how crazy that is! Why dont you do the 2 state solution and everyone lives and chills in their state. Issue is Israel wants land more than it wants peace. Their actions are inflammatory to peace. Especially West Bank ILLEGAL settlements.

Here is a solution for you: Recognize Palestine according to 1960s borders, kick out all the illegal settlers and leave in Israel and chill there. 

You dont seem to appreciate Palestinians though.

Thanks for reiterating but we are not going anywhere. Not sure how aware you are of a history but the Palestinian Mandate that was promised to us as a Jewish National Home was much bigger what we have now and it was illegally cut off of about 78% of mandate to create a fictitious states called Jordan. But it’s there now and I am fully accepting it. 
What you call settlements in West Bank illegal, first of all they are not illegal as besides us there was no rightful owner to them, there was never Palestinian ownership to them. Those are biblical Israel and if we don’t have rights to Hebron which was built 4000 years ago we definitely don’t have rights to Tel Aviv which was built in 1905. Also if we do relinquish what you call West Bank then our borders will become extremely short. And you are being too naive to think that Arabs just want us to go back to 1967 borders to have peace. Really, what bothered the Arabs in 1967 to start a war with us when they had those territories. What bothered them in 1956 to make a war with us? What bothered them in 1948 to start a war with us, was it the West Bank that we did not had? What promoted them to reject a peel commission which would make a small silver of land? What bothered them from 1936-1938 to make huge pogroms? The occupied lands of 1967? Or when they made murderous act in 1921, 1928 or 1929 in one day in Hebron when 67 Jews were killed and their insides were torn outside. 
I am not fooled or I am not dismayed. I totally understand and respect the Arabs, whatever was under their rule shall always remain under their rule and they will not accept any Israel of any shape or size. I get it and I respect it and that’s why I say they can leave among their brethren neighboring me in peace. Honestly I wish them well, from the bottom of my heart, elsewhere. God bless their 21 states that they have. But they will not create a substrate within a state. It’s not even feasible and not even doable.

[Merkabah Star]

In one of the single bloodiest Israeli attacks in Gaza over the last eight months, at least 274 Palestinians were killed, including at least 64 children, and nearly 700 were wounded in a raid on the Nuseirat refugee camp on Saturday that freed four Israelis held hostage in Gaza since October 7. "Children were shot dead. Elderly people were shot dead. Women were shot dead,"

 

[Hatfort]

Israel is having problems on many fronts.

The IDF is eating good lead provided by the Gazan tunnel warriors that pop up and disappear again right after shooting. And unlike those, they are pussies not willing to die, like Westerners like me, and I don't blame them for that.

Yemen is disrupting their sea commerce and the USA kind of tried to stop them, but haven't been successful at that.

Hezbollah has totally disrupted life in the North, which has been evacuated of civilians. That's another military and also economic problem added to the others.

There's also Iran, which doesn't want a war, but in case it happens, and without any nuclear weapons, they have a very modern ballistic system that not even the Iron Dome could defend from.

The international pressure is increasing against them too. I don't think I'm exaggerating if I say Israel is the most hated country in the world right now. Maybe North Korea? France? Some would say Russia, but the world is more than the West, and those are nurturing good alliances with China, India, Brazil, and many more, so that's a no. The only country in the world that didn't support Palestine in the UN was the USA, which used its veto power.

[Nivsch]

@Hatfort I think you are wrong about Israel. The views about Israel even today are polarized and diverse.

Edited June 11 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

Former Second in Command of IDF (2014-2017) Yair Golan:

" I wanted to take this opportunity to write you a few words, because I hear your cry and see your pain. I hurt him along with you. The destruction of this evil government is unfathomable, but I am a great believer in man, and I believe in us as a people. I believe in our ability to heal and fix. We have a wonderful nation, a nation of heroes and superheroines, and you are part of the correction that Israel so desperately needs.

We deserve a leadership that cares about us and our lives, a brave leadership that will make difficult decisions and chart a course. I believe with all my heart that this is not fate and we have the ability to change the situation. I promise you this is what we will do after we send this evil default government home. I pledge to you: we will return Israel to its citizens and sanity to Israel;

We will return hope to the hearts and confidence to the streets. We will return the abductees to their loved ones, some for rehabilitation and some for burial. We will return the smile and the pride and everything that was taken from us by a cruel, cynical and detached government that never stops running over and trampling us.

We will restore the north and the south and comfort the broken heart. This is our home and this is our beloved country, and we will fight for it with courage and determination and will not give up. forever. We will return the state to its servants, and we will eliminate any discrimination whatsoever, whether in the military service or in the civil service.

We will return the person to the center and welfare to the citizen. We will return the police to serve us, the citizens, and not the heartless politicians. We will restore the supremacy of the law and respect for the law and order to the streets of the country and the basic respect for every citizen, regardless of religion, race or gender.

Along with all these: we will move Israel forward - in security, society, economy and foreign relations. Israel will serve its citizens and be a flourishing and prosperous exemplary society, in all areas of life, just as the founding fathers dreamed of it and just as we all truly deserve.

I know this and believe it because I meet and hear you and you in almost every corner of the country. I ask you tonight: wear a white shirt, sit down to the holiday meal with your loved one and raise your head. Our determined and just fight to save the country will win. The light will win. Hope will win. Yours, Yair Golan. "

Full post here (in hebrew, need to be translated):

https://x.com/YairGolan1/status/1800524377995288683

Edited June 11 by Nivsch

[Rafael Thundercat]

A different Perspective on All this crazy going on : 

 

 

[Karmadhi]

On 6/10/2024 at 9:11 PM, Gennadiy1981 said:

What you call settlements in West Bank illegal, first of all they are not illegal as besides us there was no rightful owner to them, there was never Palestinian ownership to them.

It is illegal under international law. UN has said it clearly. No country supports it. Only hardcore Jews like yourself.

On 6/10/2024 at 9:11 PM, Gennadiy1981 said:

Really, what bothered the Arabs in 1967 to start a war with us when they had those territories. What bothered them in 1956 to make a war with us? What bothered them in 1948 to start a war with us, was it the West Bank that we did not had? What promoted them to reject a peel commission which would make a small silver of land?

Different times, different circumstances, different leaders. You cannot compare.

On 6/10/2024 at 9:11 PM, Gennadiy1981 said:

Or when they made murderous act in 1921, 1928 or 1929 in one day in Hebron when 67 Jews were killed and their insides were torn outside. 

Still 1000x better than how Europe treated Jews. For the most part they lived together in harmony. Plenty of Jews came to Palestine and were welcomed. Of course not everyone was happy about that, so here we go. And israel did 1000x worse afterwards, so...

On 6/10/2024 at 9:11 PM, Gennadiy1981 said:

But they will not create a substrate within a state.

No they will not. That is what Israel wants. To create greater Israel and within it, to treat certain groups as lower citizens aka apartheid.

If you guys were serious about peace, you would have Israel within 1960s borders with top tier security, you would be much safer than having to micro manage the West Bank and Gaza. But you want land more than security. That is the issue.

Your fundamental argument for shameless illegal land grab is religious nonsense. When you start talking to me about Bible stuff, then you already lost. Nobody uses religion to justify shit on 2024. We are beyond that now.

If you want to be serious about it, do a DNA test and see if you are actually from that land you call Israel. Science is how you prove this shit, not religion.

When Islam uses holy books to justify stuff, they get shamed for it.

There is a reason DNA tests are illegal in Israel. Because if people started doing them, they would realize that they do not belong there and are just shameless colonizers and their whole identity would collapse.

Edited June 12 by Karmadhi

[hundreth]

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

Different times, different circumstances, different leaders. You cannot compare.

This is very naive. 

[Twentyfirst]