Israel / Palestine News Thread

[hundreth]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No current Jew would know about or care about that land if not for the Bible and its cultural import.

Do you care about the land of your great granddaddy from 2000 years ago? No. Only if its in the Bible. A lot of land has changed hands in 2000 years and its water under the bridge unless you make a concerted effort to pump some epic meaning into it.

It's definitely a big part of it but seems a bit reductionist. 80%+ of Jews are Pro Israel. Majority of Jews in Israel are not religious, majority of Jews in the U.S. are not religious as well.

There is certainly a connection to the land, but then there's also having a land. My family is filled with those who've migrated to Israel from terrible situations in Iraq, WW2, and the soviet union. We all know the history and it's close to home. We don't want to be at the mercy of the rest of the world any longer. 

So for many of us, the greater Israel ideal is flawed and we just want to make peace with the Palestinians and live our lives with what we have. The situation isn't ideal now, but the land we have now is part of history and no less valid than any other land built on conflict. 

[numbersinarow]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The mainstream is pro-Israel and bought out by Israel and infilitrated by Israeli intelligence.

Yes, however time and era is a big factor. Israel's problem is that it is attempting to do things which are 100 years out of fashion.

Hamas has no power over US media or politicians. The double-standard in America is squarely in favor of Israel. This is part of the problem. Israel has corrupted America away from serving its proper role as unbiased mediator. Israel doesn't want the US to act honestly and objectively towards this whole situation. Israel wants double-standards however it can get them. Which is fundamentally why I cannot support them.

The reason it's out of fashion is because a power can realize it's in no need of good old fashioned conquering and then has every reason to portray it as barbaric in order to make itself and it's proxy tactics look good in comparison.

I mean, if I were to grant that Israel controls the mainstream of the united states in order to make it work against it's own interest by not making Israel's invasion seem less moral and thereby reprogramming people into thinking america and it's invasions are fundamentally better, it would still not actually be doing such a good job of it. If universities had the problem of people blocking black or trans students from accessing certain areas, they would treat those people worse than the people being anti-semitic. The truth is, most university professors and most of the online left are anti-Israel.

We can take an example of the mainstream being in favor of something e.g. "Russia is losing" then compare it to this situation, and the mainstream's support for Israel pales in comparison. There can be support for Israel on one side, so that the US looks good because of it's support for it, but on the other hand, there is no reason for a power to not capitalize on it's ability to 1. make it so that the people who are anti-Israel are hating on Israel itself to a much greater extent than the support for Israel from the US and 2. make it so that invasions done by other countries appear intrinsically worse, increasing support for US imperialism as the only moral kind.

Now, just to make it clear, I meant that Hamas can easily push the buttons of the mainstream and the UN into demonizing Israel e.g. by using human shields and of course with the oct 7th attack itself, not that Hamas is the more powerful party when it comes to their relation with those parties.

[Gennadiy1981]

28 minutes ago, Samsonov said:So perhaps our sin was in our pride.Read beyond the 'pshat', be more open and expand your love, or your notion of the jewishness to all, what if the whole world were jewish, why are we so protective of the religion? truth is not so delicate, we shall expose the jewish tradition and all fallacies will dissolve in the light of awareness, the story ain't over brother. the fight might be over Jerusalem or not, it might not be as bloody as described, definitely not with swords xD, it might involve fighting with love, my love.

So you are speaking of deeper things and I would say above Pshat, the real thing we need to speak on the level of Sod, that’s kabalsitic or deep spiritual level. But most people here will not understand as they are still on low level of development, they act trike they are but they are not, they are still in their tribablsitic thinking. 
Of course there had to be a reason Jewish people were kicked out of Israel so they can spread the idea of One God and look they did as most major religions in the world are believing in one God, whether you like it or not. And of course at the end of times but unfortunately after the Great War, there will be love as you describe indeed such a love that a lamb will lie with a wolf, there would be an outmost peace and true love, perhaps of universal love we speak off.  But we are not there yet, we are far off, as how can we get to such levels where you have people who want to eradicate us from the face of the earth. But I truly think after the nuclear war where humans will be surviving as species, probably the hate will dissipate.

[Twentyfirst]

18 minutes ago, hundreth said:

It's definitely a big part of it but seems a bit reductionist. 80%+ of Jews are Pro Israel. Majority of Jews in Israel are not religious, majority of Jews in the U.S. are not religious as well.

There is certainly a connection to the land, but then there's also having a land. My family is filled with those who've migrated to Israel from terrible situations in Iraq, WW2, and the soviet union. We all know the history and it's close to home. We don't want to be at the mercy of the rest of the world any longer. 

So for many of us, the greater Israel ideal is flawed and we just want to make peace with the Palestinians and live our lives with what we have. The situation isn't ideal now, but the land we have now is part of history and no less valid than any other land built on conflict. 

The settlements in the West Bank are retarded  

[Merkabah Star]

1 hour ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

I really think it’s time for you to go to your local church library and start reading Bible.

You should buy him a trump bible for his birthday. 🤡

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Is identity just a random thing or created for a reason?

What was the reason for the Aryan identity?

[zazen]

Stage blue ethnocentrics see themselves as divine architects of a better world, but they’re actually erecting one built on exclusion. Anyone who doesn’t fit into their molds of caste, color, or creed is left out.

They bask in a sense of superiority over stage orange because they align themselves with something “transcendental” rather than the supposedly trivial material world. Yet, they’ve haven’t scratched beyond the surface of their own tribe and can’t grasp the essence of their scriptures beyond a literalist reading.

Stage blue thinks they’re God-conscious, but they’re merely conscious of the human-made commandments they’ve projected onto a divine reality. They sense an intuition of God consciousness but can’t fully articulate or encapsulate its truth without concocting half-truths laced with falsehoods.

The question for the future isn’t whether one believes in God, but how they believe in God. Is God an external entity, humanized to cope with reality’s immensity, imposed upon the world with commandments from a subconscious King archetype?

Or is God an essence infused within reality, permeating all and manifesting in every form, yet not external to any form, big or small? Is God witnessed as an inherent quality of the universe rather than a judge from afar?

Edited June 9 by zazen

[Vrubel]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What was the reason for the Aryan identity?

Oh please, Israelis and Nazis are dimensions apart. Every nation including Germans has the right to self-identity and to defense of their culture and way of life. This is necessary for society to function and for people to have genuine love/a connection to one another and feel connected to the advancement of their country. 

Countries that get too much on their high horse on this issue end up like Sweden and doing serious damage to the cohesion and cultural fabric of their society. I actually find there is a certain wisdom in how certain Eastern European countries are for example tough on migration from non-western places.

 

Edited June 9 by Vrubel

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Every nation including Germans has the right to self-identity and to defense of their culture and way of life. This is necessary for society to function and for people to have genuine love/a connection to one another and feel connected to the advancement of their country. 

Good, now apply that logic to your Palestinian neighbors.

[hundreth]

According to some here, Israel should be the first nation ever in recorded history to drop their collective identity and absolve. To give it up to the Palestinians, who will go on to do the same thing and build a national identity. But this is right, because of the Palestinians connection to the land and... identity.

We've gone into the spiritual domain now and the question of identity. Why do we identify? Even In @Leo Gura's spiritual framework it's because he chose it. We write these stories, and these stories will continue. Maybe one day we will all slowly dissipate into nothingness. It isn't going to happen overnight.

[Vrubel]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Good, now apply that logic to your Palestinian neighbors.

Yes, I never denied their right to identify as the Palestinian nation even though how blatantly artificial that identification is (as a very recent reaction to Zionism by the local Arabs/Syrians) I actually respect that and recognize that as valid. However, there are other issues that make it hard for me to respect Palestinians. This conflict would be 80% less vicious if the Palestinians were solidly blue.

Edited June 9 by Vrubel

[zazen]

12 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Oh please, Israelis and Nazis are dimensions apart. Every nation including Germans has the right to self-identity and defense of their culture and way of life. This is necessary for society to function and for people to have genuine love/connection for one another and feeling connected to the advancement of your country. 

Countries that get too much on their their high horse on this issue end up like Sweden and doing serious damage to the cohesion and cultural fabric of their society. I actually find there is a certain wisdom in how certain Eastern European countries are for example tough on migration from non-western.

 

True, the key here is balance and health.

Religious fundamentalists/nationalists and the liberal left both stifle humanity. The former does so through extreme exclusion while the latter does so through extreme inclusion.

Liberals and stage greens recognise the soul of each human compared to stage blue nationalists but their shadow is utopianism- that inherent differences exist with inherent inequalities they’d like to equalise but that they go about equalising in a tyrannical or dysfunctional way. 

Edited June 9 by zazen

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, hundreth said:

According to some here, Israel should be the first nation ever in recorded history to drop their collective identity and absolve. To give it up to the Palestinians, who will go on to do the same thing and build a national identity.

Or just, like, don't carpet bomb the shit out of their tiny area of residence.

Just an idea.

[Nivsch]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Good, now apply that logic to your Palestinian neighbors.

That is why two state solution is the prefered one.

[Vrubel]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Or just, like, don't carpet bomb the shit out of their tiny area of residence.

Just an idea.

Oke, I'll call uncle Bibi first thing in the morning.

[Nemra]

8 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

I actually find there is a certain wisdom in how certain Eastern European countries are for example tough on migration from non-western places.

Before saying that, understand why people migrate.

[hundreth]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Or just, like, don't carpet bomb the shit out of their tiny area of residence.

Just an idea.

I'm with you there.

[Vrubel]

5 minutes ago, Nemra said:

Before saying that, understand why people migrate.

I understand. Poland took in Millions of Ukrainian refugees while being tough on Middle Easterners, good for them. There are definitely gems among the Middle Eastern refugees but it's not worth upending your society by importing them en masse. It's extra absurd because they don't directly border with Europe and for example, can go to Turkey or their brothers in the oil-rich countries. 

Edited June 9 by Vrubel

[Nemra]

3 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Turkey or their brothers in the oil-rich countries. 

So, why don't they go to those countries?

[Vrubel]

Just now, Nemra said:

So, why don't they go to those countries?

Life is more comfortable in Europe but that doesn't mean it's up to Europeans to house them all.