Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Leo Gura]

Obviously this war was never necessary to get hostages back. The war was the goal. The hostages are mostly just an obstacle to waging the war and ethnic cleansing that the right-wing has wanted for 80 years.

The reason it's impossible to deal with the right-wing Zionists is that no matter what, they desire to ethnically cleanse the land and take it for themselves. They literally want land instead of peace because they are so pig-headed they believe they are righteous and godly. Such people cannot reach compromise and are willing to sacrifice their own kind for their religous nationalist mission. They just use the hostages as a tool to get the domination they desire.

The situation parallell's the Bush admininstration after 9/11. They wanted to invade Iraq with or without 9/11. 9/11 was just a tool for them to do what was in their heart all along. These ideologues are shameless and will use cheap emotional manipulation that comes from terrorism, terrorism which their own thinking, policies, and actions created in the first place.

Edited June 9 by Leo Gura

[zazen]

1 hour ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

They started it and they abducted my citizens

Like @Karmadhi said, we are beyond who started it, its about who is currently going about it in such a way that perpetuates suffering and spits in the face of international law and human decency. If we really wanted we could excuse all our behaviours by saying God started this whole thing called existence filled with love and war - but thats immature deflection of responsibility. 

We can naturally expect more from a state than a stateless people as a state is part of a larger interconnected body of politics, trade and norms they are beholden to. To add to @lina's brilliant comment ''it's Israel who cornered Palestinians into a situation in which the only type of resistance or armed forces they get is represented by small groups; whom due to their incapability, resort to guerilla warfare tactics.''

Israel denies Palestinians a state then expects them to behave in accordance to the standards of having one.  

1 hour ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

If we had to kill 270,000 to get four hostages we would do that as well.

1 hour ago, Karmadhi said:

Only in Israel i see this perspective where their own citizens matter more than the entire world. It may sound cute, but it leads to much devilry. The definition of bias. 

Usually it takes another person to expose anthers bias, but with Zionists given a platform to air their own thoughts they usually do it themselves.

What we are seeing is the unholy union between America's cult of Darwinian capitalism and Israel's delusion of divine birthright. Divine selection marries Darwinian selection.

A ethos of Divine selection from God (Israel) combined and backed by a ethics of Darwinian selection (US) results in the offspring of the frankenstein abomination we witness in Gaza.

Wall Street's sharks bless Tel Aviv's bombs. "Only the strong survive," growls the West. "God chose us to thrive," howls Israel's right. Ethnic cleansing and land grabbing justified by balance sheets and biblical verses.

Latest updates show that this US backed raid which Israel isn't capable of alone - killed 3 hostages including 1 US citizen. Sad.

Edited June 9 by zazen

[Karmadhi]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

These ideologues are shameless and will use cheap emotional manipulation that comes from terrorism, terrorism which their own thinking, policies, and actions created in the first place.

Why is it so hard for the pro Isarelis to realize this? Esepcially the ones that do not even live in Israel but support Israel current actions like some of the people here. I can understand if you actually live in Israel and live in the echo chamber there, but if you live in Europe or the US, why not realize that much? Ironically the most hardcore pro Israeli actions here do not even live in Israel. 

[Vrubel]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Obviously this war was never necessary to get hostages back. The war was the goal. The hostages are mostly just an obstacle to waging the war and ethnic cleansing that the right-wing has wanted for 80 years.

The reason it's impossible to deal with the right-wing Zionists is that no matter what, they desire to ethnically cleanse the land and take it for themselves. They literally want land instead of peace because they are so pig-headed they believe they are righteous and godly. Such people cannot reach compromise and are willing to sacrifice their own kind for their religous nationalist mission. They just use the hostages as a tool to get the domination they desire.

The situation parallell's the Bush admininstration after 9/11. They wanted to invade Iraq with or without 9/11. 9/11 was just a tool for them to do what was in their heart all along. These ideologues are shameless and will use cheap emotional manipulation that comes from terrorism, terrorism which their own thinking, policies, and actions created in the first place.

Jesus man, you're stuck. You don't know Israelis and their mentality. 

@Karmadhi
I am just glad that Noa Agramani and the other hostages are saved. Sorry, but I genuinely deeply care for my own and don’t unconditionally pamper the Palestinians like you do. Hamas has created this horror show of physical and psychological terror and it was nice to have a rare reason to rejoice during this war. 

Edited June 9 by Vrubel

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Jesus man, you're stuck. You don't know Israelis and their mentality. 

I have heard enough Israeli propagandists all over the news. Their bias is so strong it's commical to watch them talk. And it's obvious that these propagandists represent how the core of the Israeli government thinks.

Right now, Israel is flooding the media with their propaganda. Paying people off, threatening people, twisting arms, bullshitting their way through this whole situation. It's clear as day to me because I have no horse in this race. I just observe it from the sidelines. Israel is engaged in lying, deception, and emotional manipulation. And the reason they do it so shamelessly is because they really brainwashed themselves into believing their are God's "children of light." That's the crux of this whole thing. When you brainwash people into taking the Jewish identity so seriously, this is the end result.

Edited June 9 by Leo Gura

[Yimpa]

War is a hell of a drug.

[Karmadhi]

8 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

unconditionally pamper the Palestinians like you do.

What unconditionally? Are you blaming Palestinian kids now? Get it over your head.

Palestinian kids are equally innocent to those hostages. They got no blame for what Hamas does. None.

If mostly Hamas was killed to get those hostages, it would be acceptable.

When you kill innocent people that are living their life then basically you create 10x the devilry Hamas created.

The issue with you is that you seem to think most Palestinians are responsible which is a genocidal mindset.

Sad.

[Karmadhi]

10 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

was nice to have a rare reason to rejoice during this war.

If they do a peace deal they will have much more reason to rejoice when 100 hostages get freed. And nobody would have to die. What is the issue with that?

[Samsonov]

@Karmadhi Hi, I wanted to give my respond, but keep in mind that it's only coming from my perspective, which I might add is not a good representation of the average Israeli. 

On 29/5/2024 at 3:34 PM, Karmadhi said:

First, what is the public opinion of the war, especially now. What do Israelis think about the countless war crimes they are accused of and especially for the footage that comes out of Gaza of dead kids.

The public opinion of the war ranges between those who feel like Israel is finely giving the palestinians justice and those who protest to stop the war, both claim that the first priority is to bring back the hostages. the former are hopeful that hammas will be completely eradicated, this is supported by advertising the idea that we are in a war and the slogan "together we'll win" as if this is a symmetrical battle. the later are horrified by the horrible consequences of war and are actively protesting, although most protests are for the sake of releasing the hostages, I think that this is due to fear of protesting for the welfare of palestinians in gaza directly as this seems like taking the enemy's side to many people who can get aggressive. There is also a sunken cost thing going on here, because many Israeli soldiers already lost their lives, and the public wants to feel this was done for some ultimate victory.

On 29/5/2024 at 3:34 PM, Karmadhi said:

Secondly, is the desire for revenge still there or is it mostly gone after 7 months of war. I could imagine at the beginning it was very high.

I would say it is somewhat fading away, in the days after October, I was shocked by the words of formerly very timid and peaceful friends and relatives. Now there were a few pro-palestinian protests in two universities that I know of and I personally feel more capable of being critical of Israel with others.

On 29/5/2024 at 3:34 PM, Karmadhi said:

Lastly and most importantly, why do I see so many videos of soldiers being happy about destroying Gaza, killing people etc, including also political analyst etc. How does an IDF person rationalize it when they snipe a child (I saw footage of a dead kid who had been sniped in his head).

Try to understand that for them this is the definition of success, it is similar to a hammas's warrior willingness to give his life to kill jews, the attainment of glory, in Israel we are educated to honour war hero's, especially those that gave their lives for the sake of war ( even those that died by a training accident for example), so many soldiers , although they might not admit it, will be happy to die in war, my friend for example, has lost his leg in the war in gaza a few months ago, and he has never been happier, he was visited by famous celebrities and was recently interviewed in the radio. I am telling this to make the point that seeing, or being honest about the consequences of war will not only confront one with his own action and past commitments for the war's sake but will also put one against Israel entire ethos (hey thats' me). You wouldn't be surprised to see a child happy for killing terrorist in a video game wouldn't you? (don't forget that most soldiers are very young, recruited at 18 brainwashed) because that's the goal of that game, that was the goal all along, everyone wants to be a die hero. 

This is the shadow of Israel and it's now raising it's ugly head, it has been growing like a cancer for years, and now Israel is trying to treat itself with chemotherapy, I would advice a more holistic healing, but that isn't what people go for under pressure.

I hope that was somewhat useful or interesting to you, Im glad to be able to report from the inside. This is Israel's dark night.

[Karmadhi]

@Samsonov Thank you so much. Your unbiased analysis is needed in a sea of pro Israeli shameless bias.

I had one last question.

4 minutes ago, Samsonov said:

Try to understand that for them this is the definition of success, it is similar to a hammas's warrior willingness to give his life to kill jews, the attainment of glory, in Israel we are educated to honour war hero's, especially those that gave their lives for the sake of war ( even those that died by a training accident for example), so many soldiers , although they might not admit it, will be happy to die in war, my friend for example, has lost his leg in the war in gaza a few months ago, and he has never been happier, he was visited by famous celebrities and was recently interviewed in the radio. I am telling this to make the point that seeing, or being honest about the consequences of war will not only confront one with his own action and past commitments for the war's sake but will also put one against Israel entire ethos (hey thats' me). You wouldn't be surprised to see a child happy for killing terrorist in a video game wouldn't you? (don't forget that most soldiers are very young, recruited at 18 brainwashed) because that's the goal of that game, that was the goal all along, everyone wants to be a die hero. 

Here you basically described to me why IDF people enroll and why they want to kill Hamas. That I can understand and I find reasonable. 

What I wanted to know, is why they do things like snipe childreen and other stuff like that which is not related to killing Hamas fighters.

Why post videos with women lingerine making fun of it etc.

How is this related to killing Hamas fighters which are adult males.

[Nivsch]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I have heard enough Israeli propagandists all over the news. Their bias is so strong it's commical to watch them talk. And it's obvious that these propagandists represent how the core of the Israeli government thinks.

But what about the exact opposite policy Israel did during all the recent years prior to oct 7th in order to avoid war as much as possible?

Even the right wing is not a one-piece and updates its strategic in response to traumas/triggers.

Edited June 9 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

But what about the exact opposite policy Israel did during all the years prior to oct 7th in order to avoid war as much as possible?

Their policy has always been to take more land and to eliminate any moderate Palestinian leaders who would lead toward a peace deal. This has been Netanyahu's policy for all the time he's been in office. And this is why he was reelected so many times. All of this is a matter of public record from his own mouth. So it's not like I have to divine his policy. He is clear about it and clear about his reasoning: "Children of light, children of darkness."

All you gotta do is take him at his words. It's not some great conspiracy.

Edited June 9 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Their policy has always been to take more land and to eliminate any moderate Palestinian leaders who would lead toward a peace deal.

I agree about Netanyahu strategy to weaken the PLO and boost hamas which was a shame.

Aside to that though there were actions costed Israel Billions of dollars that go against this aspiration at least in Gaza, with enormous efforts to establish an unpenetratable upper and especially lower ground deffenses with revolutionary technology, what would not have been done if the governent wanted to ethnically cleans Gaza.

Edited June 9 by Nivsch

[Samsonov]

@Karmadhi

I can't give you a satisfactory answer on this one, as I do not know if that particular story of soldiers sniping children is real, I am assuming you watched some video? What I can testify for, due to my time as an IDF soldier, is that the IDF value system goes against what you describe, emphasising professionalism, and only shooting targets that are the mission's goal, taking great measures to avoid harm elsewhere, that being said, I did not serve during war time.

Both Hammas and Israel are very sneaky, hammas is nutorious for purposefully choosing hospitals to launch rockets from, so that if the IDF wants to destroy them, they will have to deal with the image of a burning hospital, and you can be sure that some videos are faked, on both sides.

I am also afraid that in this conflict the IDF might have lost it's previous integrity, as a consequence of the unspeakable level of integrity that hammas has set. 

Edited June 9 by Samsonov

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I agree about Netanyahu strategy to weaken the PLO and boost hamas which was a shame.

Aside to that though there were actions costed Israel Billions of dollars that go against this aspiration at least in Gaza, with enormous efforts to establish an unpenetratable upper and especially lower ground deffenses with revolutionary technology, what would not have been done if the governent wanted to ethnically cleans Gaza.

Because there are political limits to what the right-wing can get away with.

They are opportunists. Similar to the American Christian fanatics. They exploit any opportunity that rises. If a terrorism attack arises, they use it to push their agenda while the public is emotionally dazed. If Trump comes to power, the right-wing opportunistically tries to use him to do their bidding. This is the shamelessness of their ways.

A right-wing Zionist or Christian would sign a contract with Satan if Satan only told them that he would advance their Biblical agenda. This is how stage Blue operates.

Netanyahu did not have the political capital to just invade Gaza. But he created it for himself by inflamming Hamas and drowning out Palestinian moderates.

Edited June 9 by Leo Gura

[Twentyfirst]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because there are political limits to what the right-wing can get away with.

They are opportunists. Similar to the American Christians fanatics. They exploit any opportunity that rises. If a terrorism attacl arises, they use it to push their agenda while the public is emotionally dazed.

The western public. Nobody in the world is so fear consumed that they think bombing kids somehow protects them in their air conditioned home across the ocean in freaking ARIZONA. Propaganda like this only works on westerners 

[Twentyfirst]

Looking forward to Leos video on terrorism. I just hope he understands just a little more about Islam and the Middle East before posting it. You are almost there

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

The western public. Nobody in the world is so fear consumed that they think bombing kids somehow protects them in their air conditioned home across the ocean in freaking ARIZONA. Propaganda like this only works on westerners 

Netanyahu's political captial is not in America, it is in Israel. And for average Israeli's terrorism and violence is a palpable threat unlike in America. They hear rocket sirens regularly. Americans have no idea what that is like. So the Iaraeli public is extra easily manipulated by terrorism, even moreso than Americans.

Edited June 9 by Leo Gura

[Vrubel]

56 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I have heard enough Israeli propagandists all over the news. Their bias is so strong it's commical to watch them talk. And it's obvious that these propagandists represent how the core of the Israeli government thinks.

Right now, Israel is flooding the media with their propaganda. Paying people off, threatening people, twisting arms, bullshitting their way through this whole situation. It's clear as day to me because I have no horse in this race. I just observe it from the sidelines. Israel is engaged in lying, deception, and emotional manipulation. And the reason they do it so shamelessly is because they really brainwashed themselves into believing their are God's "children of light." That's the crux of this whole thing. When you brainwash people into taking the Jewish identity so seriously, this is the end result.

Oke, I am sure you'll gaslight and shut me down by saying I am biased (like I am the only one) but I am definitely not seeing any of this. 

It's clear to me who is the loudest and who is winning the propaganda war, defenders of Israel's truth are relatively rare, not the least for the obvious reason Israelis and even Jews are a relatively small nation. Israelis could match Aljazeera's propaganda by constantly releasing 7/10 footage but they are keeping most of it private and shelved out of respect for the victims and to not repeatedly retraumatize themselves. 

[Twentyfirst]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Netenyahu's political captial is not in America, it is in Israel. And for average Israeli's terrorism and violence is a palpable threat unlike in America. They hear rocket sirens regularly. Americans have no idea what that is like. So the Iaraeli public is extra easily manipulated by terrorism, even moreso than America.

They moved there because it's the only safe place in the world for Jews. Except its the most dangerous place in the world for Jews

I dont know what else to say. They put themselves in a bad position, play victim, then ask for help. But then they refuse help