Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Merkabah Star]

8 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Honestly you can't compare the horror of hostage to anything else in this war which is in another league.

Again, this comment repeated. What Israel has done to Gaza is more than equal to what the hostages are going through. Both are horrific situations. 

[Karmadhi]

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2024/6/8/hospital-overwhelmed-with-victims-of-israeli-attacks-on-central-gaza

This is the price paid to release 4 civilians in Gaza.

Only a sick twisted mind would consider this a victory and celebration material.

It is a price too high to pay.

Edited June 8 by Karmadhi

[Nivsch]

@Karmadhi Keep a check on your side's double standards at least sometimes. 

Edited June 9 by Nivsch

[zazen]

Any heart that hasn't fully been propagandised to dehumanize and value one life over another would feel bittersweet at the return of the hostages - the relief of a life returned to its home is sweet, the cost it took to get there bitter. A total of 7 hostages have been returned in over 7 months of destruction, death and displacement of over 1.5 million Gazans -  the joy of having less than 1 hostage a month being returned is clouded by the cost to life, dignity and hope of 2 million Gazans. 

The tragic irony is that those hostages could have tasted freedom much sooner if the government that claims to prioritise their return accepted earlier permanent ceasefire deals - they instead only insisted on temporary ones so they could regroup, rearm and continue destroying Gaza in pursuit of Hamas. The Israeli state would rather have Palestinians submit to them than demand dignity and rights by standing up to occupation.They would rather use the hostages to shield themselves from criticism to go easy on Gaza, prolong their political career and cleanse the strip to make way for a greater Israel some amongst them dream of.

Western media will zoom in on tearful reunions while blurring out the kids graves in Gaza. They'll interview hostage families but never the Palestinian father dangling his headless child. They manufacture consent for their support of Israel by minimising the victims created by the Israeli states actions. The empires eternal con is to parade small mercies to hide vast cruelties. They'll wave a flag of compassion over one life saved, while using it to shroud the mountains of bodies they've made.

 If the far right within Israel get what they want which is a settled Gaza, when they boast themselves to be a developed nation and to look at their beach resorts - we'll remember it was built upon the bones of Palestinians.  Their development will just be a fancy tombstone for a people they've tried to erase.

Edited June 9 by zazen

[Vrubel]

12 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

During the Second World War there were huge resistance groups against the Nazis in the occupied countries. Examples being in Belarus, Poland, Yugoslavia. They would attack the German occupiers and the Nazis responded by killing thousands in repriasal attacks. Yet, people do not say "It is the fault of the resistance fighters for attacking Germans because that lead to the Germans killing civilians in response. The fault is on the resistance fighters not the Germans, because they knew how the Germans would react yet they still did it". Nobody says this. Germans are blamed and nobody says anything about the resistance attacks that triggered the Germans to massacre the civilians. Why dont you hold the same standard for Hamas?

Just the latest in your long list of false equivalencies:

Reprisal actions work like this: You have partisans in the forests or underground (as in secret) so I will gather a thousand random civilians and execute them in the hope of breaking the morale of the fighters and civilians. This is how it happened with Nazi reprisals against for example Yugoslav resistance or even the Austro-Hungarian reprisals against Serbian partisans in WW1. This tactic is so obviously crude and an absolute transgression that it cannot possibly be blamed on the Serbian resistance. This is a dimension removed from blaming Israel because your terrorist government purposefully held their hostages in exceptionally densely populated civilian areas. The Serbians did not employ the tactic of hiding among their civilians and whining when they got killed. Serbians are too proud for that. 

Edited June 9 by Vrubel

[zazen]

19 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@Karmadhi Nothing is compared to being alone with zero control on your life, utterly deffenseless and with no freedom of motion.

A family in Gaza are in a far better initial position and the tents area is 99.9% safe.

The first sentence could easily describe Gaza, just on a larger scale and through a different mechanism.

The second sentence oversimplifies their condition. These tents aren’t glamping luxury retreats - they lack even the necessities like food water medicine.

You can understand that death isn’t the only tragedy but so is psychological suffering as in the case of Israeli hostages - this same reasoning can be applied to Gazans who are wounded, had loved ones die, been told to move around like sheep to safe zones which aren’t always safe. 

They are hungry, can’t access medical care and forced to get amputations without anaesthesia. They don’t know whether they’ll wake up in heaven the next morning or end up cleansed to the Sinai desert never to return to homes that are now rubble.

Both suffer from power games being played that crush innocents lives in body and soul.

Edited June 9 by zazen

[Nivsch]

@zazen I don't want to disparage anyone's suffering, but even being in the Jungle but with your tribe and with an humanitarian aid comes these days regulary to the tents region, is still miles away better than to be alone in a tunnel, without sunlight, cannot move or communicate with anyone, cannot control anything, defenseless and at the mercy of hamas people that will decide if and when they will want to murder you.

Edited June 9 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

@Nivsch Can you explain me how killing 270 civilians is worth saving 4 people and then being happy about it?

It is a horrible ratio and a shame.

[Karmadhi]

56 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

with an humanitarian aid

Dude, they are starving. See images of them. They look like skeletons. The hostages I saw their footage. They seemed healthy and well fed. Hamas will not kill them. They are useful for Hamas. 

Edited June 9 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

4 hours ago, Vrubel said:

because your terrorist government purposefully held their hostages in exceptionally densely populated civilian areas. The Serbians did not employ the tactic of hiding among their civilians and whining when they got killed. Serbians are too proud for that. 

Fair point. Still Israel has a duty under law not to harm civilians in mass. Therefore they are still to be blamed. Which is why the ICJ and the ICC have cases against them. This argument is used as an excuse for collective punishment against the whole population, most of whom are innocent.

What fault do the civilians have that some Hamas radicals end up in buildings close to them?

Jewish, anti-Zionist activist describes her experience living in Gaza (youtube.com)

Seems like a normal society to me. 

Edited June 9 by Karmadhi

[Nivsch]

[Twentyfirst]

Zionist = Mass murderer  

[Twentyfirst]

3 hours ago, zazen said:

The first sentence could easily describe Gaza, just on a larger scale and through a different mechanism.

The second sentence oversimplifies their condition. These tents aren’t glamping luxury retreats - they lack even the necessities like food water medicine.

You can understand that death isn’t the only tragedy but so is psychological suffering as in the case of Israeli hostages - this same reasoning can be applied to Gazans who are wounded, had loved ones die, been told to move around like sheep to safe zones which aren’t always safe. 

They are hungry, can’t access medical care and forced to get amputations without anaesthesia. They don’t know whether they’ll wake up in heaven the next morning or end up cleansed to the Sinai desert never to return to homes that are now rubble.

Both suffer from power games being played that crush innocents lives in body and soul.

You can tell them 75 years of occupation caused this over and over but they will never truly "get it" 

Even when you put them in the same position of suffering they just turtle retreat into victim mode

They are the best victims in human history 

Thats why I think they probably did something extremely evil to piss off Hitler and they had all that coming to them

Never believe an Israeli 

Edited June 9 by Twentyfirst

[lina]

4 hours ago, Vrubel said:

 This is a dimension removed from blaming Israel because your terrorist government purposefully held their hostages in exceptionally densely populated civilian areas. The Serbians did not employ the tactic of hiding among their civilians and whining when they got killed. Serbians are too proud for that. 

You're still glossing over the fact that it's Israel who cornered Palestinians into a situation in which the only type of resistance or armed forces they get is represented by small groups; whom due to their incapability, resort to guerilla warfare tactics. 

The ethics of guerilla warfare has always been a matter of debate as there is no limit to their tactics. It changes according to each situation, conflict, culture...etc. That's why, even if the Serbia example is true, it still misses the big picture. Their main survival tactic is focused on avoiding head-on confrontations with their enemy, again because of their inferior arms and forces . In the case of Hamas, that's where you see them prioritizing their survival over the Gazan population, or hiding hostages among civilians. Their goal is to resist under all circumstances to force the enemy to withdraw. 

If Palestinians have their own state and own army, they will be able to protect their civilians, they wouldn't need to carry out chaotic attacks that kills both civilians and combatants, nor would they ever need to take civilian hostages. They would get the privilege to engage in an organized, symmetric and ethical warfare and that is what precisely Israel doesn't want. 

Edited June 9 by lina

[Twentyfirst]

There is no way these Israeli guys on this type of forum have that much bias after this much time. They MUST be shills. Only explanation 

[Karmadhi]

24 minutes ago, lina said:

If Palestinians have their own state and own army, they will be able to protect their civilians, they wouldn't need to carry out chaotic attacks that kills both civilians and combatants, nor would they ever need to take civilian hostages. They would get the privilege to engage in an organized, symmetric and ethical warfare and that is what precisely Israel doesn't want. 

Exactly.

[Karmadhi]

15 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

There is no way these Israeli guys on this type of forum have that much bias after this much time.

And they follow Leo s work.

Imagine those that dont.

Bias times 100.

[Gennadiy1981]

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Nivsch Can you explain me how killing 270 civilians is worth saving 4 people and then being happy about it?

It is a horrible ratio and a shame.

If we had to kill 270,000 to get four hostages we would do that as well. Your war morale is very perverted. This is not how you fight a war. They started it and they abducted my citizens (and you never know it could have been me as well as I go to festivals) and you expect us to sit quiet. You are very lucky that Netanyahu is extremely ethical person and does not do real carnage, be it another leader, Gazans may have been a historical figure by now. 

[Karmadhi]

31 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

They started it

No they didnt. There was every year fighting there. Plus who started it is irrelevant at this point.

31 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

they abducted my citizens

Why dont they do a peace deal to free them? There were countless proposals including from Biden recently. If Hamas rejects all of them your reasoning would make more sense but when there is another solution, then you have no excuse. I should remind you that from fighting there has been a total of 7 hostages freed, meanwhile from a peace deal you had over 100 in November which were freed. So negotiations work better. Truth is Israel government does not give a shit and is just using hostages as propaganda fuel to continue their true goal which is genocide and ethnic cleansing.

31 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

You are very lucky that Netanyahu is extremely ethical person and does not do real carnage, be it another leader, Gazans may have been a historical figure by now. 

Which is why he will have an arrest warrant for war crimes soon . Very ethical indeed.

31 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

expect us to sit quiet.

I expect you to take responsability and blame your policies as much as Hamas for what happened and put an end to them. Not double down on what created Hamas on the first place. Ask yourself, why Hamas is popular? Also ask yourself, why is the entire world so disgusted by what Israel is doing? Leo said it very clearly, as long as Israelis do not look themselves in the mirror and admit they are devils then this will never end. So I would avoid music festivals in Israel for some time now, because another attack will happen with the new Hamas that this genocidal war will create.

"If we had to kill 270,000 to get four hostages we would do that as well".

I wonder if you would go around in the world asking people, would you rather have 1 innocent citizen of your country live over 100 innocent citizens of another country, how many  would pick the 100. Only in Israel i see this perspective where their own citizens matter more than the entire world. It may sound cute, but it leads to much devilry. The definition of bias. 

Edited June 9 by Karmadhi

[Twentyfirst]

45 minutes ago, Gennadiy1981 said:

If we had to kill 270,000 to get four hostages we would do that as well. Your war morale is very perverted. This is not how you fight a war. They started it and they abducted my citizens (and you never know it could have been me as well as I go to festivals) and you expect us to sit quiet. You are very lucky that Netanyahu is extremely ethical person and does not do real carnage, be it another leader, Gazans may have been a historical figure by now. 

No way this guy is real. SHILL

Israel pays tons of money for propaganda. They have their hand in every cookie jar 

And YES. That includes this forum. In hindsight it was obvious 

Edited June 9 by Twentyfirst