Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Inliytened1]

32 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Inliytened1

   And if there's always a few bad apples in the basket, would you agree that the farmer has to have enforcement means to deal with those few bad apples, to remove and coup them out if they refuse to leave? That's what I mean about that 80s years that Israel and Zionists in charge did to Palestinians, slowly taking land, settlements, and demilitarized Palestinians such they don't have even the means to coup HAMMAs now, see what I mean? That's why IMO Israel has greater burden here for contributing to this mess to begin with. If they recognized Palestine as a state, and helped it out a little, allowed them a police force, then Palestinians could have chance to civil war with HAMMAs and throw them out if such.

   And wait a minute, didn't you say fair enough minutes ago??? What's with this 180 degree plot twist???

I wasn't doing a 180 - you make good comments I was simply expanding on them.  Those are good points.  I can't argue that Israel has contributed to their own issue.  But to say that Palestinians could have had a chance to civil war with Hamas is a grand leap of faith.  Most likely Hamas' would have been the victor in the end and there would still be unease between the two.  So while I appreciate and like your optimism, I also have to be a realist.  The more likely scenario would be that Hamas ends up pushing for more land.  Jews want nothing more, after centuries, to just be left alone.

Edited June 7 by Inliytened1

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

@Karmadhi With all the problems, empirically speaking IDF ratio (combatants : civilians) in this war is better than any other urban war against terror done in the past by any country.

You have no proof to back up that. Israel itself has no clue how many civilians they have killed. Piers Morgan easily grilled their official spokeperson in his show about this.

 

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

You can't compare this to the holocaust. 

You missed my point. I am not comparing it to that. I am saying that people that have actually went through hard stuff have said so. Since you claimed "you have not experienced shit so you cannot talk", which is indeed true. So I sent some people that have experienced shit and that is what they had to say. Keep in mind that a genocide does not need to kill millions or 50%+ of the population to be labeled as much.

During the Bosnian war, around 30.000 Bosnian civilians were killed (also 30.000 soldiers) and it is called a genocide due to the targeting and intent showed. That is my point. If you read about the crimes that were done in Bosnia, it is quite similar to what the IDF is doing. An example would be snipers killing civilians as they wished, which happens in Gaza a lot. Even kids get shot. I saw a very disturbing video of a very young kid who had half his head blown off from a sniper shot. 

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

I just watched the series "we were the lucky ones" which I highly recommend.  It's a really good insight to what they went through.   It's terrifying.   How they tricked Jews into thinking they were going back to Israel only to be stopped along the way to dig their own graves.  Horrifying

Sure, I agree with you. Thing is when you equate couple hundreds of civilians killed with tens of thousands it looses the value. Your logic is that 1 of us died and 50 of them. We both did bad things. In theory yes, but it is not proportional, hence 1 side is much worse.

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

But also you have to appreciate what Israel has been through to keep their land and people.  It has been a struggle.

They chose the worst place in the world to settle too. That is a direct consequence of that. I would love if Israel lived in peace with its neighbors but the way the country was founded was flawed which leads to this bullshit. As long as it is seen as theft, people will do this. 

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

You missed my point. I am not comparing it to that. I am saying that people that have actually went through hard stuff have said so.

That's a testimony to the mindset of the average Jew.  We are a humble people.  However, they are also not in leadership positions and in charge of the nation.  That's a whole different ballgame.

[Twentyfirst]

On 6/6/2024 at 9:46 AM, zazen said:

@Twentyfirst You asked about why they were hated in the past so gave some reasons simply related to economic incentives driven by religious differences. If you know other reasons please list them.

They did something terrible and had it coming to them

[Nivsch]

Former head of IDF (2002-2005) and minister of defense (2013-2016) Moshe Ya'alon.

Edited June 7 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

4 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

We are a humble people.

Please differentiate between Jews and Zionists. Bernie is also a Jew yet he calls out all their devilry.

The issue is hardcore Zionists, not your average Jew.

And unfortunatenly Israelis have been conditioned to hate Palestinians.

I keep seeing on social media testimonies of Israelis saying horrible things about Palestinians like they all are Hamas and should die etc.

It has been hundreds at this point.

That society is full of hate. Always has been.

Palestinians are too.

The only reason why I am softer on Palestnians is  because they are not very educated and because they have been through immense horrible shit from Israel.

Israel has not been through much shit from Palestine.

There were basically no deaths of Israelis from Palestinians from 2001 until 2023.

Meanwhile thousands of Palestinians died in that period.

An example would be the 2014 Gaza war where basically no civilian Israeli died but 1500 Palestinian civilians died.

Edited June 7 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

@Nivsch

Amnesty International stated, however, that the volume of civilian casualties and damage to civilian infrastructure suggested that Israel was not just trying to target Hezbollah fighters. An AI spokesperson, Kate Gilmore, said that "[t]he pattern, scope and scale of the attacks makes Israel's claim that this was 'collateral damage', simply not credible".[307] "The evidence strongly suggests that the extensive destruction of power and water plants, as well as the transport infrastructure vital for food and other humanitarian relief, was deliberate and an integral part of a military strategy," Gilmore said.

On 24 July 2007, Haaretz reported that the official Israeli inquiry into the war "is to include the examination of claims that the IDF committed war crimes during last summer's fighting."[308]

A 6 September 2007 Human Rights Watch report found that most of the civilian deaths in Lebanon resulted from "indiscriminate Israeli airstrikes", and found that Israeli aircraft targeted vehicles carrying fleeing civilians.[309] In a statement issued before the report's release, the human rights organization said there was no basis to the Israeli government's claim that civilian casualties resulted from Hezbollah guerrillas using civilians as shields. Kenneth Roth, Human Rights Watch executive director, said there were only "rare" cases of Hezbollah operating in civilian villages. "To the contrary, once the war started, most Hizbollah(sic) military officials and even many political officials left the villages," he said. "Most Hizbollah(sic) military activity was conducted from prepared positions outside Lebanese villages in the hills and valleys around." Roth also noted that "Hezbollah fighters often didn't carry their weapons in the open or regularly wear military uniforms, which made them a hard target to identify. But this doesn't justify the IDF's failure to distinguish between civilians and combatants, and if in doubt to treat a person as a civilian, as the laws of war require."[310]

On its final report, issued on 30 January 2008, the Israeli government's Winograd Commission concluded that the Israel Defense Forces did not commit violations or war crimes, as alleged by the Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and other NGOs. The Commission claimed that the evidence shows that the Israel Defense Forces did not target civilians, in contrast to Hezbollah and to denunciations by NGOs, and explained that terms like "war crimes" are without basis.[311] This report also acknowledged that Israel used cluster bombs illegally, stating that "Israel must consider whether it wants to continue using cluster bombs in the future, because its current manner of employing them does not conform to international law."[312]

Found this from the 2006 Lebanon Israel war.

Why is Israel like this? It seems it is in their blood to do collective punishment against the entire civilian population, it is not just against Hamas or Palestine.

Are they generally ruthless or only against certain countries?

I am not disputing that they should defend themselves when attacked but why target civilians like this?

Why not keep it strictly at military targets?

 

Edited June 7 by Karmadhi

[Inliytened1]

16 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Please differentiate between Jews and Zionists.

You mean differentiate between jew and jew? Why? Because of their environment or upbringing? A jew is a jew. And  I don't condone everything Israel does either, but you don't call out the people per se, you call out the decisions that the people's government makes.   

What is a hard core zionist?  Do they formulate  the government that makes the decisions?  Or is it just some dude on fhe street?  If the latter than he is the average jew.   If you transplanted me there right now from the US our opinions wouldn't be that different.

Edited June 8 by Inliytened1

[Merkabah Star]

6 hours ago, zazen said:

True, defending aggression with hypotheticals of worse aggressions just seems to lack social intelligence of how they come across + a minimisation of the suffering the current aggression is causing.

Destiny seems to imply that the current level of aggression is justified because it hasn’t yet reached the most extreme level of aggressions ie Nuke. 

So true. Every post of yours is always exceptional. You are always fair and awake on this topic. 
 
israel is out of control. 

[Loveeee]

 

[Merkabah Star]

 

UN to add Israeli army to blacklist of those who harm children in conflict, as more than 15,500 children killed in Gaza since October 7.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/6/7/israels-war-on-gaza-live-hospital-barely-coping-with-dead-and-wounded

[Raze]

 

Edited June 7 by Raze

[Merkabah Star]

That Australian reporter being assaulted like that really does show how out of control some Israelis are. Repulsive behaviour. They should be arrested. 

[Karmadhi]

5 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

You mean differentiate between jew and jew? Why? Because of their environment or upbringing? I don't care what Bernie does - you follow too much liberal crap.  A jew is a jew. And  I don't condone everything Israel does either, but you don't call out the people per se, you call out the decisions that the people's government makes.   

What is a hard core zionist?  Do they formulate  the government that makes the decisions?  Or is it just some dude on fhe street?  If the latter than he is the average jew.   If you transplanted me there right now from the US our opinions wouldn't be that different.

Jew is someone born in a specific group which relates to Judaism. It is inherent.

Zionist is a political movement, an ideology that anyone can support which states that Jews should have an ethno centric country which should be in their holy land etc.

The reason Jews get most of their hate nowadays is because of Israel which is seen as many people including myself as colonialism and fundamentally flawed in its design. Therefore, people that support this idea of an ethno Jewish state are called Zionists.

No issue with Jews having a state per say, but it should be done with consensus from everyone and not at expense of others. Also people living there should have equal rights.

Israel is done without consensus, at expense of the Palestinians which lived there for millenia and non Jews do not have the same rights.

Hence the hate.

A Jew does not need to be a Zionist per say.

A non Jew can also be a Zionist.

Zionist is a political ideology like fascism, communism etc.

Judaism is a religion and is inherent.

Zionism is not.

At least that is how I see it.

Hard core Zionist would be someone that is against a two state solution and say "The Entire Palestinian Mandate of 1947 should be Israel because it is our holy land etc". So using religious nonsense to justify land grab and ethnic cleansing of indeginous people. 

[Twentyfirst]

9 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Please differentiate between Jews and Zionists. Bernie is also a Jew yet he calls out all their devilry.

The issue is hardcore Zionists, not your average Jew.

And unfortunatenly Israelis have been conditioned to hate Palestinians.

I keep seeing on social media testimonies of Israelis saying horrible things about Palestinians like they all are Hamas and should die etc.

It has been hundreds at this point.

That society is full of hate. Always has been.

Palestinians are too.

The only reason why I am softer on Palestnians is  because they are not very educated and because they have been through immense horrible shit from Israel.

Israel has not been through much shit from Palestine.

There were basically no deaths of Israelis from Palestinians from 2001 until 2023.

Meanwhile thousands of Palestinians died in that period.

An example would be the 2014 Gaza war where basically no civilian Israeli died but 1500 Palestinian civilians died.

If the issue is zionism and not the average Jew then why does the average Jew live on stolen land and is willing to watch innocent children die before ever leaving that land and will never stand up to the evils of zionism?

[Nivsch]

In response to Smotrich's video in which he says we have to settle in Gaza.

Edited June 8 by Nivsch

[zazen]

12 hours ago, Merkabah Star said:

So true. Every post of yours is always exceptional. You are always fair and awake on this topic. 
 
israel is out of control. 

Thanks man, likewise you share good up to date information.

[Vrubel]

IDF rescued 4 hostages in two different operations! including Noa Argamani. 

Hopefully, this will pressure Hamas enough to accept a proper deal and not stick to its delusions and false hope of winning.

Fuck Hamas, Fuck the Haters and Fuck all the Shills! (sorry, a bit emotional now).

[Nivsch]

39 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

IDF rescued 4 hostages in two different operations! including Noa Argamani. 

Hopefully, this will pressure Hamas enough to accept a proper deal and not stick to its delusions and false hope of winning.

Fuck Hamas, Fuck the Haters and Fuck all the Shills! (sorry, a bit emotional now).

🥰💛