Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Danioover9000]

@Basman

2 hours ago, Basman said:

The majority of people are too busy with their own little world too care about a war in a remote country. The only difference with this conflict is that Palestine has had years to accrue sympathy, but it is fundamentally no different from any other conflict.

   What do you mean the Israel/Palestine war is no different from any other war? Why are you down playing that over 80 years the Likud party led Israel has been stealing land, making settlements, oppressing the Palestinians, and is an apartheid state that demilitarized and destabilized that region slowly since the Al Nakba? 

[Nivsch]

Edited June 1 by Nivsch

[Raze]

 

Edited June 1 by Raze

[Merkabah Star]

9 hours ago, Basman said:

The majority of people are too busy with their own little world too care about a war in a remote country. The only difference with this conflict is that Palestine has had years to accrue sympathy, but it is fundamentally no different from any other conflict.

You mustn’t know much about the issue. 

[Basman]

7 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Basman

   What do you mean the Israel/Palestine war is no different from any other war? Why are you down playing that over 80 years the Likud party led Israel has been stealing land, making settlements, oppressing the Palestinians, and is an apartheid state that demilitarized and destabilized that region slowly since the Al Nakba? 

If you are not glued to related news you are not going to know any of that.

Most people don't have the time to care about foreign affairs that doesn't affect them in a concrete way. The Israel/Palestine conflict is fundamentally no different from any other foreign conflict in relation to how people treat foreign conflicts in general. A war breaks out and it makes the news everywhere, then slowly attention fades until a major update. Meanwhile people are dying but because it is happening hundreds of miles away and is irrelevant to an everyday person's life, they stop thinking about it. The only difference in this case is that Palestine has had years to garner sympathy, but that is it.

The news is first and foremost really just entertainment for every day folk. The average person's sphere of influence is generally pretty small. If you think about any particular foreign conflict everyday, then you are not average.

Edited June 1 by Basman

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Merkabah Star said:

You mustn’t know much about the issue. 

If to put Oct7th aside which was an exceptional peak, this conflict is still far less severe than many other conflicts for example Russia-Ukraine, Sudan, Syria etc. And its called a conflict for a reason, not a one sided "abuse" as many love to draw it like in a dellusional way. Romanticising it too much is a trap preventing us to see this conflict's bi-directional nature.

Edited June 1 by Nivsch

[Raze]

7 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

If to put Oct7th aside which was an exceptional peak, this conflict is still far less severe than many other conflicts for example Russia-Ukraine, Sudan, Syria etc. And its called a conflict for a reason, not a one sided "abuse" as many love to draw it like in a dellusional way. Romanticising it too much is a trap preventing us to see this conflict's bi-directional nature.

- those wars have been raging for years, the rate of death in this conflict especially given the population size is more severe

- Gazans are trapped inside a small area and being bombarded, settlers are attacking Palestinians in the West Bank who have no armed defense, that is what makes it one sided. 

[Nivsch]

2 minutes ago, Raze said:

settlers are attacking Palestinians in the West Bank who have no armed defense, that is what makes it one sided

As bad as extremist settlers terror is, attacks on also defenseless people happen in every conflict.

[Basman]

1 hour ago, Merkabah Star said:

You mustn’t know much about the issue. 

You shouldn't be shocked when people don't care about a foreign conflict that doesn't involve them.

12 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

 And its a conflict by the way, not a one sided "abuse" as many love to draw it like in a dellusional way. Romanticising it too much is therefore a trap.

It can be both. The Yugoslav Wars is a prime example.

[Merkabah Star]

No surprise this peace deal was dead on arrival. Israel dont want peace.

Quote

The US president’s announcement on Friday suggested a ceasefire might be close, but Benjamin Netanyahu’s rebuke was swift and decisive

The latest peace plan for Gaza was given a launch worthy of a historic turning point, with the US president delivering remarks directly to camera from the White House state dining room, declaring it finally “time for this war to end”.

Yet even as Joe Biden spelled out the proposal – leading in theory to a permanent end to hostilities, large-scale food deliveries and the start of reconstruction, there was clearly something awry.

If this plan was an Israeli proposal as Biden claimed, why was it being launched by Biden in Washington? There had been no word from Israel. By the time Biden began his remarks, it was already Friday night in the Middle East, the sabbath was under way and government offices closed.

When the prime minister’s office did produce a statement in response, it exuded all the reluctance and irritation of a politician roused from sleep. Yes, Benjamin Netanyahu had “authorised the negotiating team to present a proposal” but it was one that would “enable Israel to continue the war until all its objectives are achieved”.

A second statement issued after daybreak was even blunter. Any plan that did not achieve Israel’s war aims, including the destruction of Hamas’s military and governing capacity, was a “non-starter”.

US officials argued the deal would fulfil Israel’s essential security requirements so there was ultimately no conflict, but there was no getting around Netanyahu’s choice of language, which made it clear he was not the author of the new plan, but a grudging participant. It also appeared designed to humiliate Biden. An experienced communicator like Netanyahu would know that the phrase “non-starter” would appear in the morning’s headlines alongside pictures of the president making his bid for peace

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/01/biden-gaza-ceasefire-deal-lack-of-influence-netanyahu

 

[Merkabah Star]

56 minutes ago, Basman said:

You shouldn't be shocked when people don't care about a foreign conflict that doesn't involve them.

Shocked? lol. It couldn’t care less if people dont care. You obviously do, or you wouldn’t be posting on this thread. 

Edited June 1 by Merkabah Star

[Merkabah Star]

58 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

As bad as extremist settlers terror is, attacks on also defenseless people happen in every conflict.

It’s the extremist settlers behaviour that is allowed, that fuel terror attacks like oct 7th. So if you are so nonchalant about attacks on defenceless people, that just happen in conflict, then why are you bothered about what happened on oct 7th? 

[Merkabah Star]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

If to put Oct7th aside which was an exceptional peak, this conflict is still far less severe than many other conflicts for example Russia-Ukraine, Sudan, Syria etc. And its called a conflict for a reason, not a one sided "abuse" as many love to draw it like in a dellusional way. Romanticising it too much is a trap preventing us to see this conflict's bi-directional nature.

It is a one sided abuse on a defenceless people. Hence the ICC is going after your country. Your tunnel vision is always on display. Head in the sand. La la la. 

[Merkabah Star]

Prof. John Mearsheimer on Israel's Goal in Gaza and the Decline of U.S. Credibility Worldwide

Prof. John Mearsheimer on the Israel Lobby's Grip on U.S. Politics

 

[Merkabah Star]

Quote

Israeli minister: 'We will ruin the West Bank like Gaza'

On a visit to Bat Hefer near the illegal Separation Wall today, far-right Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich threatened Palestinians living in the occupied West Bank with total destruction if they continue to resist occupation. He said Israel needs to control the occupied West Bank in order to keep the illegal settlements within it safe.

video of him on instagram. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7mb9VYJRkE/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=757f4d16-114f-4934-8caf-03414c040254

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240530-israeli-minister-we-will-ruin-the-west-bank-like-gaza/

 

[Loveeee]

 

[Nivsch]

9 hours ago, Merkabah Star said:

It’s the extremist settlers behaviour that is allowed, that fuel terror attacks like oct 7th. So if you are so nonchalant about attacks on defenceless people, that just happen in conflict, then why are you bothered about what happened on oct 7th? 

Both sides actions fuel the next response from the second side.

Edited June 2 by Nivsch

[Merkabah Star]

6 hours ago, Loveeee said:

 

Yes, shame on Israel. 

[zazen]

If someone wanted sum up the situation of Israel / Palestine in one word it would be: occupation. That’s a word a lot of Israelis deny to describe the situation with or rationalise the existence of.

Logically to follow up we should ask: does occupying a group of people make another group of people (the occupiers) more or less safe?

Whenever occupation is acknowledged by Zionists it’s rationalised and re-defined as being a needed “security measure” in response to being attacked - but they are being “attacked” due to occupation. Those attacks are what Palestinians deem resistance and what international laws tell them is their right.

How can the West create an international system of law that tells a group of people they are occupied and have the right to resist that occupation, and then support a country that is executing that very occupation.

When people are denied a state their denied a certain type of more 'civilised' and accepted means of protection - when they don't have a military, navy, air force, intelligence agencies or the backing of a global superpower they need to resort to guerrilla warfare and other unsavoury uncivilised tactics like suicide or terrorist attacks - which they are then gaslighted as savages for.

It is savage - but it doesn't detract from the cause being a just one of equal human rights, self determination and dignity even though they go about it in undignified unjust ways of which they have been left with little choice.

Edited June 2 by zazen

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, zazen said:

If someone wanted sum up the situation of Israel / Palestine in one word it would be: occupation. That’s a word a lot of Israelis deny to describe the situation with or rationalise the existence of.

I can go further and sum up the situation of Israel / Palestine in two words:

survival forces.

Given the Jordanian area Israel has occupied in 1967 a hugh mountainy area with a much higher strategical advantage in comparison to the much narrower much lower almost all plane corridor central Israel is built of - an occupation of at least the western part of West Bank by Israel is necessary and at the very least understandable.

And that is what the pro Palestinian side is in deniel about in the opposite side of the equation.

I can admit that you are also right in the sense that this occupation has definitely gone too far what then created the opposite problem and made Israelis too physically donimate in the west bank relative to the fair potential solution we had to go towards.

Edited June 2 by Nivsch