Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Vrubel]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Why do you assume hippies aren't devils?

My last girlfriend was a New Age hippie type. Sweet, but also full of devilry.

You should know that the devil loves to wear the disguise of a sweet young hippie chick.

You just willfully misunderstand me. So there is no point continuing.

your hippie girlfriend is not of the matter here. Like my previous quote from the gulag archipelago nobody is a100% pure.

Still some people are just genuinely good people and the best that humanity has to offer. For example I view “Navalny Russians” or secular Iranians in the same light. These people are the best and command respect and recognition.

Edited May 26 by Vrubel

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Vrubel said:

You just willfully misunderstand me. So there is no point continuing.

your hippie girlfriend is not of the matter here. Like my previous quote from the gulag archipelago nobody is a100% pure.

Still some people are just genuinely good people and the best that humanity has to offer. For example I view “Navalny Russians” or secular Iranians in the same light. These people are the best and command respect and recognition.

So what? That doesn't address the elephant in the room, which is Zionist domination of Gaza.

The longer you ignore that elephant and make rationalizations for it, the more terrorists will be created. I am trying to help you guys. But no one can save you from yourselves.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[BlessedLion]

6 hours ago, Vrubel said:

The victims were definitely sons of light, the best of what humanity has to offer

They were psychedelic hippies, entitled spoiled Israeli brats and far from the best society has to offer. I see tons of these kinds of people in my town. 
This is the problem with Israel, you really think you are the chosen people and special in some fundamental way. It’s the most disgusting entitled narcissistic culture that exists. Israel makes me want to puke and I can’t wait until you get back what you’ve dished out 

[Davino]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Why do you assume hippies aren't devils?

My last girlfriend was a New Age hippie type. Sweet, but also full of devilry.

Do you think personal development has made it harder for you to find a life long partner? As the difference in SD is so abrupt.

 

[Leo Gura]

21 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

I can’t wait until you get back what you’ve dished out 

Don't wish harm on others. This is not the way.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Davino said:

Do you think personal development has made it harder for you to find a life long partner? As the difference in SD is so abrupt.

Not personal development.

But my pursuit of truth, yes.

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

So what? That doesn't address the elephant in the room, which is Zionist domination of Gaza.

The longer you ignore that elephant and make rationalizations for it, the more terrorists will be created. I am trying to help you guys. But no one can save you from yourselves.

Israeli citizens see Gaza as an independent state we left in 2005, what is somehow true but not accurate. 

They aren't knowledgeable in the full details, just as I didn't know the more complicated picture until recently.

Edited May 26 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

see Gaza as an independent state

But Gaza is not allowed statehood status.

Just last week there was a UN vote to recognize Palestine as a state and the Israeli government went ape-shit, calling the vote a travesty and banning EU diplomats.

With that kind of approach, of course terrorists will keep attacking you. It's like yanking on a crocodile's tail. This has been going on for decades.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But Gaza is not allowed statehood status

Even If it would allowed I don't know if it would change hamas behaviour there that was not less cruel even to PLO people they were executed when they took the charge from them.

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Just last week there was a UN vote to recognize Palestine as a state and the Israeli government went ape-shit, calling the vote a travesty and banning EU dipolmats.

I don't agree with our government approach, I just think I can understand how it looked from its eyes - an unjust reward for the terror after oct 7th that for the Israelis was their worst nightmares came true (and this last sentence I think too).

Edited May 26 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Even If it would allowed I don't know if it would change hamas behaviour

At this point it certainly won't change Hamas behavior, however, it will create a pathway to a peace settlement longer term.

There is a larger issue at stake here than simply getting Hamas to stop attacking. You have to pacify the Palestinian people and give them a pathway to peace and prosperity.

The way to deal with Hamas is simply by erecting better defenses. Which you'll have to do anyway from all the bombing.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I don't agree with our government approach

Good for you. You have some integrity.

[enchanted]

Why are the illegal West Bank settlements overlooked. Isn't that the primary cause of the conflict there? 

[Nivsch]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

At this point it certainly won't change Hamas behavior, however, it will create a pathway to a peace settlement longer term.

There is a larger issue at stake here than simply getting Hamas to stop attacking. You have to pacify the Palestinian people and give them a pathway to peace and prosperity.

Agree because it will boost the moderate sectors in their society.

By the way this week we had a family meeting in which my sister's boyfriend was too, and he told about how it was for him to be a soldier in the west bank when his group needed to enter to totally innocent Palestinians families homes in the night just to show occurance and domination.

If you look at him, his speaking and his views (center-left according to his talking in this conversation) you would see a regular good boy, utterly non-machoistic at all that said it had no choice and needed to do that. 

Of course there are other soldiers that are different but it showed me the gap between the policy written from above, and the actual soldiers (boys... ages 18-21) in the field more sharply than ever.

Edited May 26 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

If you look at him, his speaking and his views (center-left according to his talking in this conversation) you would see a regular good boy, utterly non-machoistic at all that said it had no choice and needed to do that. 

Doesn't surprise me. It's more of a systemic issue.

[Karmadhi]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Netanyahu is constitionally incapable of coming out and saying: "We Israelis are devils."

But that's what is needed to resolve this conflict. Until Israelis admit this, there cannot be peace.

What disturbes me more than this is the crazy support the West, especially US/UK is giving Israel.

US officials legit threanted the ICC prosecutor and his family. Threatening a judge is a criminal act in most countries.

You cannot really expect Israel to stop being devils when this threatens their survival, but you can expect US and UK to put them in their place.

You can argue about AIPAC but fundamentally Israel is US pawn, not the other way around.

Israel cannot survive without US, US will be fine without Israel, especially now that most Arab countries are on good terms with the US.

Same logic with the UK.

It is more realistic for US/UK to tell Israel "if you do not stop this we will abandon you" then Bibi waking up one day and saying "We Israelis are also responsible for the October attacks".

What do you think?

I feel like the West can easily coerce Israel to recognize Palestine and stop the war (via sanctions and cutting of ties).

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

US officials legit threanted the ICC prosecutor and his family. Threatening a judge is a criminal act in most countries.

Those were shameless Republicans from what I saw.

Birds of a feather flock together.

But yeah, the US foreign policy deep state is real. It does its thing regardless of which party or Pres happens to be in power.

There is extremely deep group-think when it comes to US intelligence and military stuff. There is no changing their minds.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

42 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

What disturbes me more than this is the crazy support the West, especially US/UK is giving Israel

Or just that, maybe, US and some of the west know Israel from a much broader perspective of (yes, interests, but also) common values, former governments throughout decades, bidirectional potential help with some common similar threats etc.

Edited May 26 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

4 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Or just that, maybe, US and some of the west know Israel from a much broader perspective of (yes, interests, but also) common values, former governments throughout decades, bidirectional potential help with some similar threats etc.

Not really, some of EU which would be the pinnacle of democracy and respect of law (Scandinavia for example) have openly said Israel is doing war crimes. USA is not objective here, neither is UK. What baffles me is that they are willing to destroy their interntional reputation for such a small country.

I live in Europe and i have read about how Israeli treats Palestinians. It is out of the world for us Europeans to even do 1/10 of the devilry that Israel does. There is no apartheid in Europe.

Josep Borrell: EU must choose between rule of law and Israel | DW News (youtube.com)

Common values? Apartheid, starvation of civilians, racism, carpet bombing or genocidal statements are not "European values". Neither is shutting down media (like they did with Al Jazera) nor not allowing millions of the Palestinians in the West Bank to vote.

Give me a break...

 

Edited May 26 by Karmadhi

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

common values

The commom value is rampant capitalism.

Palestinians too poor to join the country club, they are the servants cleaning the toilets.

Edited May 26 by Leo Gura

[Karmadhi]

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But yeah, the US foreign policy deep state is real. It does its thing regardless of which party or Pres happens to be in power.

 

What do they gain from Israel? You said "billions of weapons sold".

So does Ukraine, so does Saudi. I do not see this type of support for them.

USA used to be quite antisemetic until the end of the second world war (they did not allow many Nazis to be trialed for war crimes).

What changed so much?

 

Edited May 26 by Karmadhi