Israel / Palestine News Thread

[hundreth]

8 hours ago, Nivsch said:

I personally feel it is a chicken and egg problem.

Pretty much. Most of these conversations devolve into endless blame games with no beginning or end. 

We're here now. Both Israelis and Palestinians will not leave the land unless in body bags. Both parties will fight to the death to stay. So you can wax poetic about who deserves to be there, but the result will always be death if you get your way. 

They won't live together, the one-state solution is dead. At least for the foreseeable future. 

There's a sliver of hope for a two state solution. We need leaders and solutions to move us forward in this direction. Pro Palestinian supporters will need to move from a justice mentality to a problem solving mentality. Palestinians will never receive the justice you seek, no more than Jews will receive justice for the atrocities they've faced for millennia. 

Pro Palestinian supporters hate when you ask them for potential solutions, because then they actually need to contend with reality. It's much easier to demonize Israel over and over again.

If our conversations were more focused on solutions, we might actually be able to advance the conversation. 

[Karmadhi]

9 hours ago, Vrubel said:

You're acting as if this war with Hamas will not feed anything positive and productive to peace and security in the long run but wouldn't it be more honest to say that you don't know? 

It did produce some positive things.

Palestinian cause has never been so popular and now hopefully it will lead to a final Palestinian state.

Slovenia, Malta, Spain and possibly Belgium plan to recognize the state this summer.

Also Israelis have been exposed and their reputation is now in ruins.

The invasion of Rahaf, going against the entire world, including their strongest allies, is the nail in the coffin for their reputation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-69038760?src_origin=BBCS_BBC

 

Edited May 20 by Karmadhi

[Vrubel]

23 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

It did produce some positive things.

Palestinian cause has never been so popular and now hopefully it will lead to a final Palestinian state.

Slovenia, Malta, Spain and possibly Belgium plan to recognize the state this summer.

Also Israelis have been exposed and their reputation is now in ruins.

The invasion of Rahaf, going against the entire world, including their strongest allies, is the nail in the coffin for their reputation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-69038760?src_origin=BBCS_BBC

 

The self-righteous pettiness… notice how none of the things you listed will bring anything concrete to the situation on the ground. 

If you come to Israel you’ll see the truth and beauty shine through and why so many people support us. You're invited. if you don't come that’s okay too. Being a misunderstood people is nothing new for Israelis and Jews. This only makes us stronger this time. Nothing more romantic

Edited May 20 by Vrubel

[Karmadhi]

10 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

The self-righteous pettiness… notice how none of the things you listed will bring anything concrete to the situation on the ground. 

 

Neither will destroying Gaza. Hamas will just recruit new orphans and attack over and over. It is clear in Northen Gaza. This war has been a disaster.

I do not see how people can defend it.

11 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

If you come to Israel you’ll see the truth and beauty shine through

I would like to go to the West Bank and see how people are treated there.

I dont care about Tel Aviv, nobody says people get abused there.

[Danioover9000]

@Vrubel

10 hours ago, Vrubel said:

So occupation is a logical response to terror and genocidal threat! 

You're acting as if this war with Hamas will not feed anything positive and productive to peace and security in the long run but wouldn't it be more honest to say that you don't know? 

   Tell Netanyahu and his goons the Likud party to stop bombing 77% of Gaza then, and catching civilians in the cross fire. See this game here? That's the logical fallout of Israel's right wing Zionists you lot put in charge mostly bombing indiscriminately between HAMMAs and other Palestinians.

 

[Karmadhi]

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-69038760?src_origin=BBCS_BBC

I love how Israelis here ignore this.

Now their government is officially a criminal terrorist one

Good stuff.@Danioover9000

[Nivsch]

 

 

 

Edited May 20 by Nivsch

[Merkabah Star]

Israel has lost this war big time. It will never live this one down. There will never be peace there. All it’s done is fuel terror, forever. And turned the world against it. No lobby can buy your way out of it. 

[hundreth]

3 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

Israel has lost this war big time. It will never live this one down. There will never be peace there. All it’s done is fuel terror, forever. And turned the world against it. No lobby can buy your way out of it. 

Loser mentality. For the Palestinians sake, I hope you're wrong. Whenever there is war in the region, they are suffering more. 

But this is the game anti-Israel voices play. They are more concerned with demonizing Israel than forming a Palestinian state. 

[Merkabah Star]

5 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

It did produce some positive things.

Palestinian cause has never been so popular and now hopefully it will lead to a final Palestinian state.

Slovenia, Malta, Spain and possibly Belgium plan to recognize the state this summer.

Also Israelis have been exposed and their reputation is now in ruins.

The invasion of Rahaf, going against the entire world, including their strongest allies, is the nail in the coffin for their reputation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-69038760?src_origin=BBCS_BBC

 

So true.. 

There was no self righteous pettiness about it. lol 

[MediumKahuna]

ICC prosecutor seeks arrest warrants against Sinwar and Netanyahu for war crimes.
 

 

[Merkabah Star]

Just now, hundreth said:

Loser mentality. For the Palestinians sake, I hope you're wrong. Whenever there is war in the region, they are suffering more. 

But this is the game anti-Israel voices play. They are more concerned with demonizing Israel than forming a Palestinian state. 

I’m not even anti Israel. I think they have a right to have their country and I’ve been invited to come and stay there by multiple friends who have moved there and love it. I’m sure it is beautiful. Beautiful people inside and out. What will ruffle feathers of the international crowd in western countries is that they do not like seeing international law broken. The settlements in the West Bank are illegal. What goes on there is bad behaviour by Israelis. This is nothing new. The terror attack on Israel was horrific, yes they have a right to attack Hamas, but they dont have a right to break international law. They cant shut off the water, food and electricity for 2 million people. Thats collective punishment, that is a war crime. Thats where it started and it’s only gone south since with a total destruction of all infrastructure in Gaza. 

The icc will come after your country and its justified. 

 

[hundreth]

1 minute ago, Merkabah Star said:

I’m not even anti Israel. I think they have a right to have their country and I’ve been invited to come and stay there by multiple friends who have moved there and love it. I’m sure it is beautiful. Beautiful people inside and out. What will ruffle feathers of the international crowd in western countries is that they do not like seeing international law broken. The settlements in the West Bank are illegal. What goes on there is bad behaviour by Israelis. This is nothing new. The terror attack on Israel was horrific, yes they have a right to attack Hamas, but they dont have a right to break international law. They cant shut off the water, food and electricity for 2 million people. Thats collective punishment, that is a war crime. Thats where it started and it’s only gone south since with a total destruction of all infrastructure in Gaza. 

The icc will come after your country and its justified. 

I agree with most of what you said, but this ICC stuff is mostly political theater. 

We get it, everyone hates Israel. Now what have you achieved? Is international isolation going to make Israel commit suicide and cede the land to the Palestinians? Of course not. What's more likely is that isolation makes nations more aggressive, as we've seen throughout history. 

The U.S. is both Israel's greatest ally and the only one capable of tempering them and reigning them in. It's a double edged sword. Without the link to the U.S. they'd just be another nation trampling a group of people whom no one cares about on a scale much greater than Israel. Which is what is happening all over the world right now. 

It's clear new leadership is needed on both sides, and with that there is the possibility for renewed hope. The longer this drags without a push for statehood, the worse it will become. 

[Danioover9000]

@Merkabah Star

22 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

I’m not even anti Israel. I think they have a right to have their country and I’ve been invited to come and stay there by multiple friends who have moved there and love it. I’m sure it is beautiful. Beautiful people inside and out. What will ruffle feathers of the international crowd in western countries is that they do not like seeing international law broken. The settlements in the West Bank are illegal. What goes on there is bad behaviour by Israelis. This is nothing new. The terror attack on Israel was horrific, yes they have a right to attack Hamas, but they dont have a right to break international law. They cant shut off the water, food and electricity for 2 million people. Thats collective punishment, that is a war crime. Thats where it started and it’s only gone south since with a total destruction of all infrastructure in Gaza. 

The icc will come after your country and its justified. 

 

   True, same with me, I'm only against the Likud party and the war crimes Netanyahu has committed so far, that's all. I'm sure most Israeli citizens there are just caught in this polarization, and some left wing Israelis are trying to fight this too. I hope justice is served for those who deserve it most, and divine punishment to those most deserving for this whole mess.

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch, @Vrubel, @Lila9, @Heaven, and @hundreth. Sound about right? Oh and @Bobby_2021

Edited May 20 by Danioover9000

[Merkabah Star]

21 minutes ago, hundreth said:

I agree with most of what you said, but this ICC stuff is mostly political theater. 

We get it, everyone hates Israel. Now what have you achieved? Is international isolation going to make Israel commit suicide and cede the land to the Palestinians? Of course not. What's more likely is that isolation makes nations more aggressive, as we've seen throughout history. 

The U.S. is both Israel's greatest ally and the only one capable of tempering them and reigning them in. It's a double edged sword. Without the link to the U.S. they'd just be another nation trampling a group of people whom no one cares about on a scale much greater than Israel. Which is what is happening all over the world right now. 

It's clear new leadership is needed on both sides, and with that there is the possibility for renewed hope. The longer this drags without a push for statehood, the worse it will become. 

Clearly the same people run both countries. 😀 so Israel will never lose the American backing. The Americans might say “naughty boy” here and there , but that’s just theatre too. The UN is a nothing burger. ICC and ICJ seems a little bit different. They have the backing of the world behind them on this one and the USA cant just shut it down. 

This whole Gaza situation looks like another land grab. Even if they cant remove all the gazans they can shrink it. With Putin grabbing land in Ukraine this is the perfect opportunity for Israel to claim Gaza and the West Bank as Israel proper. That could be what it’s all about. 

 

[Karmadhi]

1 hour ago, hundreth said:

I agree with most of what you said, but this ICC stuff is mostly political theater. 

We get it, everyone hates Israel. Now what have you achieved? Is international isolation going to make Israel commit suicide and cede the land to the Palestinians? Of course not. What's more likely is that isolation makes nations more aggressive, as we've seen throughout history. 

The U.S. is both Israel's greatest ally and the only one capable of tempering them and reigning them in. It's a double edged sword. Without the link to the U.S. they'd just be another nation trampling a group of people whom no one cares about on a scale much greater than Israel. Which is what is happening all over the world right now. 

It's clear new leadership is needed on both sides, and with that there is the possibility for renewed hope. The longer this drags without a push for statehood, the worse it will become. 

It will make it harder and harder for Europe to justify its cooperation which will greatly damage Israel economically and its standing. Turkey already cut out all trade with Israel.

This will force Israel to elect a more moderate government and finally give Palestine a state and equal rights.

Which in turn will reduce radicalization.

Also it will show the world Israel is not above the law and does not get special treatment because of shit that happened 80 years ago.

Simple as that.

[Merkabah Star]

1 hour ago, MediumKahuna said:

ICC prosecutor seeks arrest warrants against Sinwar and Netanyahu for war crimes.
 

 

That was excellent.  . 

[Gennadiy1981]

Found cute video wanted to share

https://youtu.be/XiZZUqscZv8?si=x6LLB0JV_qJylTm7
 

[Gennadiy1981]

I took a break from this forum but I see it keeps going on and on. You know what I realized is that once you made up your mind it’s impossible to convince otherwise. Those who support Israel will keep supporting and does who demonize will keep demonizing. I read at least 5 pages of this thread and it’s like each person just pushes their side,  no one is even listening, so forget about even solutions. It’s funny someone asked what can be a solution and getting right politicians, but understand the world today is blue and orange on spiral dynamics. Now I would assume people on this forum are mostly green and yellow and I thought few would be slightly turquoise, but notice how blind everyone is and if we cannot have a normal conversation here, how do you expect people on a lower level to communicate. 
I guess Israel is very special that’s why no one is indifferent but you must choose a side and it just bothers the world of its existence. Doing spiritual work I started to look down at the Bible but the Bible is right when it underlines Israel and says that the final war of humanity will be about Israel. As much as I try to dismiss Bible, it’s pretty much accurate.

But in any case, my humble advice to all of you, switch to a different topic, unless you get orgasm by posting videos and just arguing.