Israel / Palestine News Thread

[Yimpa]

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4620838-texas-governor-abbott-backlash-mass-arrest-ut-austin-pro-palestine-protest/
 

Pretty nuts. I was on the highway in Austin when all this went down; there was literally a line of 30+ police cars all driving down the left lane. If I had to make a safe assumption, they were all going towards the campus. 

Why the hell do you need such massive amount of police presence to stop a freakin’ university protest?! And why do far-right conservatives love to conflate Palestinians with Hamas?! That’s like claiming that all Black people are affiliated with gangs.

Edited April 26 by Yimpa

[zurew]

 

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That is the difference between those without and those with power. Using terrorism is not necessary when you are in a vastly dominant position. But you have to look at how Israel maintains its dominant position: through lies, propaganda, political manipulation, war crimes, funding of terrorist groups, and theft of land. When you allow yourself all that, who needs terrorism?

The thing with the land, though I am not justify the today's neverending building of settlements there and think it has to stop, I still think I understand from where it came. 

Back in 1967, Israel was under a serious existential threat knowing all the surrounding countries want its destruction and also saw operationally how those countries armies prepare themselves to an another trial in that direction. That is why the "six days war" in 1967 has started in the first place, as a preventive war.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_the_Six-Day_War

(There is a concern about the neutrality of this article I see now noted at the top, and I see some differences between this and the hebrew one, I add it too now to here and maybe you will see is an option to translate it, I tried and it worked  https://he.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/מלחמת_ששת_הימים.     )

Just from looking at the map we can see how narrow the land passage Israel has without the West Bank and how this might be a huge disadvantage to the ability to defend yourself, when you don't have this strategic mountains area.

Though today this is no longer necessary to build more and more new neighborhoods there what isn't justified, the beginning of this project can be understandable when we enter the mind of a tiny fish surrounded by an ocean of sharks always planning how to wipe it away.

Edited April 26 by Nivsch

[BlessedLion]

@Nivsch quit making excuses for your genocide creating country 

[Bobby_2021]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

 

The ICJ played it safe. It's didn't explicitly support either side. 

But at the same time, it gave an impression that genocide may happen. Which is what the media reported.

Normally, a court ruling should be clear that you should need to explain it later. Courts should give out clear rulings.

What does:

"right to be protected from genocide"

even mean?

It doesn't mean anything more than what it says. 

Is it similar to

"genocide couldn't be ruled out" ?

I don't like Judges coming on TV to explain their decisions. They should explain it clearly at the time or ruling. Else people will misinterpret  everything. 

[Vrubel]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That is the difference between those without and those with power. Using terrorism is not necessary when you are in a vastly dominant position. But you have to look at how Israel maintains its dominant position: through lies, propaganda, political manipulation, war crimes, funding of terrorist groups, and theft of land. When you allow yourself all that, who needs terrorism?

Bullshit, all you guys do is lie and manipulate. 

Yes, Israel has currently a political retardation but it is a democracy with oscillating electoral results. Hamas is part of the equation in all this. Let's consider that for a moment. 

Israel doesn't need that much propaganda when they have a legitimate perspective and fighting against such an enemy. 

 

[Bobby_2021]

5 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Israel doesn't need that much propaganda when they have a legitimate perspective and fighting against such an enemy.

Imagine if Britan or US referred to itself as a white nation and the land of whites, and viewed white settlements as a national value. It's literally etched in the constitution.

That's what the jews do in Israel.

It's not a legitimate perspective. Even I knew all this after the was started on oct 7. The media played a huge role in masking the true nature of Israel. They have the most propaganda and lies than that of any one else.

[Vrubel]

14 hours ago, Nemra said:

@Vrubel

Do you think people here don't care about the Israelis pov?

Also, do you think you care about Palestinians pov?

People here, just like you, believe that they see through.

They think you're so biased that you can't see beyond your perspective.

Do you think that only you, as an Israeli, can understand this situation correctly and/or without being biased?

(I'll stop, as I don't want you to think I'm targeting you, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to) 

No worries, they are legitimate questions. Thanks for asking.

I've often answered them in previous posts. But it comes down to this:

I have my own unique experience that allowed me to get the deepest view and insight of the Israeli perspective. I can see the purity in it so to speak. 

I understand that people don't share my perspective and that's totally fine. I am fine when people are critical in a healthy way. However I do see it as a task to stand against blatant lies and demonizations.

Like the genocide hyperbole for example. The siege of Leningrad was not considered a genocide and that was a whole other dimension of cruelty and subsequent human suffering. So the hypocrisy runs deep on some people. 

This is a horrible war and I understand emotions run high but this does not excuse us from being level-headed. I also keep my anger in check whenever I read something outrageous about 7/10, other terrorism or Israelis dying or being held hostage.

 

Edited April 26 by Vrubel

[zurew]

16 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I don't like Judges coming on TV to explain their decisions. They should explain it clearly at the time or ruling. Else people will misinterpret  everything. 

Yeah, they should have been extremely clear what they meant because it seems everyone misinterpreted what they said (and I think they did misinterpret it rightfully so, because based on the context , it seemed like they are saying that there is a genocide)

Edited April 26 by zurew

[Merkabah Star]

11 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Bullshit, all you guys do is lie and manipulate. 

Israel doesn't need that much propaganda when they have a legitimate perspective and fighting against such an enemy. 

 

[Vrubel]

6 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Imagine if Britan or US referred to itself as a white nation and the land of whites, and viewed white settlements as a national value. It's literally etched in the constitution.

That's what the jews do in Israel.

It's not a legitimate perspective. Even I knew all this after the was started on oct 7. The media played a huge role in masking the true nature of Israel. They have the most propaganda and lies than that of any one else.

It is a legitimate perspective because the Jewish people had to reestablish and secure their future. Furthermore, Israel is extremely multicultural with a large Arab minority. Any excesses deserve criticism I agree with that. 

Edited April 26 by Vrubel

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

Israel doesn't need that much propaganda when they have a legitimate perspective and fighting against such an enemy. 

Then why such an obvious mounted effort at a PR campaign? Why all the underhanded political manipulation if truth is on your side? Zionists have turned into a swarm of manipulative bees, running all over TV to try to convince the world that they are poor victims in all this.

Me thinks thou doth protest too much.

The amount of bullshit coming from Zionists on this issue is cartoonish. They are too blinded by bias to see it coming out of their own mouths. Because as a Zionist you have decided that your first loyalty is to your tribe, not to truth.

Edited April 26 by Leo Gura

[Vrubel]

To stand up against the lies and demonization. How can you not see this? 


 

[zazen]

Conflation olympics 

If the US saw what the US is doing in the US, the US would invade the US to liberate the US from the tyranny of the US - Anonymous

Edited April 26 by zazen

[Nivsch]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Why all the underhanded political manipulation if truth is on your side?

But maybe it because Israelis feel almost negligible comparing the other side's 100M+ reaching propaganda?

If you had such a low volume wouldn't you use a more strict words to compensate on this?

When try to show a genuine message in such a tough conditions of course it will be showed reductionistic somehow, but it doesn't mean it isn't based on geunuine truths too.

It again seems like Israel is the "stronger" one here but in reality it is complicated and not obvious at all.

Edited April 26 by Nivsch

[zazen]

36 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

It is a legitimate perspective because the Jewish people had to reestablish and secure their future. Furthermore, Israel is extremely multicultural with a large Arab minority. Any excesses deserve criticism I agree with that.

There comes a point where securing a people through such extreme actions leads to their very insecurity. Did Israel feel secure when Iran attacked in retaliation?

What level of security is needed when being a regional power with nukes, having neighbours who are friendly (Jordan, Egypt, the Gulf), having the backing of the West and the worlds super power isn't enough? Due to re-traumatising themselves as a people by re-living memories of the past a lot of Zionists hyper inflate threats and act irrationally which only continue to actually endanger themselves.

The excess which deserves criticism is what world protests and now the campus protests are about. Of course, some very angered individuals will call for the end of Israel and the like which should be scrutinised and checked - but to conflate all protests or the main cause as one of anti-semitism and the prelude to the holocaust is utter BS. 

[Nivsch]

5 minutes ago, zazen said:

What level of security is needed when being a regional power with nukes, having neighbours who are friendly (Jordan, Egypt, the Gulf), having the backing of the West and the worlds super power isn't enough?

You are overlooking WHY israel needed to become physically powerful, because without that power, Israel just would not survive here.

Looking at the Israel-Palestine conflict without seeing simultaneously the bigger Israel-Arab World conflict picture, will always leave you with a highly skewed picture.

Edited April 26 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

Israel is not on the side of truth in this situation. It's playing shameless survival games. The rest it minutia.

And even worse, Israel drags America into its untruthful games. If Israel wants to play its games, fine, but leave America out of it.

Edited April 26 by Leo Gura

[Nivsch]

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The amount of bullshit coming from Zionists on this issue is cartoonish. They are too blinded by bias to see it coming out of their own mouths. Because as a Zionist you have decided that your first loyalty is to your tribe, not to truth.

If you give examples that you see as the most tangible to you I will try to answer what I think, but otherwise I can't understand you.

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

If you give examples that you see as the most tangible to you I will try to answer what I think, but otherwise I can't understand you.

You can find so many examples of Israeli spokespersons all over media spreading bullshit. I am too lazy to compile it all. Should be obvious by now if you watch the news.

I'm not looking for an answer. Zionists gonna zionize.

Edited April 26 by Leo Gura