Programming Language that aligns with my values.

[Bobby_2021]

Leo often say to choose a career path that aligns with your values, and not doing so can be detrimental to your well being in the long term.

For me coding felt like a drag on my soul throughout my career. I even felt like coding was not for me even though I excelled in CS & Math at school. I really felt something was deeply wrong with me that I can't code. I knew something was really off. I even had to try some different career paths only to fail in them as well. 

But now I have found a language that aligns with my values and that is Rust. It's almost like I can meditate or listen to music while I write code in Rust. Rust was the language I was looking for. It perfectly aligns with my values. Rust is also the most loved programming languages as per leading survey consecutively for years.

Rust gives you low level control and superior understanding of what is actually happening under the hood and I just love it. It bugs me to death when I can't understand what a line of code is doing when I read it. But Rust teaches you all that. The code is safe and secure from memory vulnerabilities. For me Languages like Javascript are outdated and there are things in the language that are totally ridiculous beyond comprehension. It's stuff built in the freaking mid 90s and we are still clinging on to it because "reasons". Mostly money.

But not for me. Rust can do everything. It's rapidly growing. The job possibilities in Rust are not the greatest, but it will certainly grow in the future.

There are many people with a programming background on this fourm, so I thought it would be cool to share this and know what you think of Rust.

It's like finally finding what I was looking for the whole time.  I simply can't love Rust enough.

Edited March 22 by Bobby_2021

[Leo Gura]

What is Rust used for? Web apps?

I like C#

Edited March 22 by Leo Gura

[vibv]

You can work with any programming language if you're a professional, but everybody has their favourites. So congrats for finding yours.

[Davino]

37 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What is Rust used for? 

It's similar to the language family of  C with a particular emphasis on memory safety, a problem only solved by C# in that family and java outside of it but Rust does it without compromising performance. 

It seems to be a language that computer nerds love when they try it. In my university we laugh when one of our friends falls into the Rust sect and now talks how it's such a good language. We have another fallen soldier @Bobby_2021  They become like preachers. I'll have to give Rust an honest try, this is becoming a meme.

Back to the question, for any company that is particularly interested in security, Rust is the way to go. As it offers a native way of handling memory vulnerabilities in a way no other language does. Memory vulnerabilities may seem trivial, but they are not, it is a huge thing when developing high level software.

 

I personally like Java the most. I find the whole family of C too rudimentary and rigid. While python in my taste it's too open, everything works, no compiling, just interpreting, too liberal for my taste. Java is the perfect balance, you get a robust, deeply hierarchical language that is open and flexible. I also like the class-based object-oriented approach, it suits my way of programming.

Although, I'm not very keen on programming either. Still gotta finish the two degrees of computer science and telecommunications engineering that my past self thought would be a great idea and challenge to study simultaneously.

Edited March 22 by Davino

[UnbornTao]

Microsoft is starting to replace some of the Windows kernel components with Rust (already shipped an insider preview with that language at the end of last year), and Linux devs are adding Rust to the kernel as well.

Memory safety with no performance compromise is an essential use case from what I've heard.

Edited March 22 by UnbornTao

[Bobby_2021]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What is Rust used for? Web apps?

I like C#

It can be used for everything from web apps, back end, frontend using web assembly, embedded systems and even AI & game development. 

High performance on par with C, low memory consumption, Safety from bugs and productivity. Easy to manage large codebases.  Super scalable. 

It's a young language, released in 2015 that is rapidly evolving. Rust is the future.

6 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Microsoft is starting to replace some of the Windows kernel components with Rust (already shipped an insider preview with Rust at the end of last year), and Linux devs are adding Rust to its kernel as well.

Memory safety with no performance compromise, seems to be an essential use.

Yup. Rust is taking over. 

Android, Microsoft, AWS all are heavily leaning in on Rust by using Rust to build their own tools, starting support for Rust and investing millions of dollars in the Rust foundation. It's steadily growing. 

[Bobby_2021]

7 hours ago, Davino said:

It seems to be a language that computer nerds love when they try it. In my university we laugh when one of our friends falls into the Rust sect and now talks how it's such a good language. We have another fallen soldier @Bobby_2021  They become like preachers. I'll have to give Rust an honest try, this is becoming a meme.

I don't have the habit of preaching on social media but I already see myself pushing rust to every other dev. It's on!

7 hours ago, Davino said:

Back to the question, for any company that is particularly interested in security, Rust is the way to go. As it offers a native way of handling memory vulnerabilities in a way no other language does. Memory vulnerabilities may seem trivial, but they are not, it is a huge thing when developing high level software.

Most companies don't care about security until something breaks. Now they want security instead of following the correct practices like a professional right from the beginning. 

Prevention is better than cure.

7 hours ago, Davino said:

personally like Java the most.

Java is my third favourite after Rust and C++. I can't bare having a runtime and garbage collector. And runtime debugging is the stuff of nightmares. How can you even track the flow of values on a variable in the runtime. 

Garbage collector is introducing non deterministic outcomes. Might as well use English then. 😂 Oh we have JS. Never mind.

You cannot reason how the code executes because the JVM is doing most of the work. It's like a black box you have to believe in like it's the Bible. I can't get myself to code until I know exactly what the code I wrote does, preferably to assembly and the CPU.

Even worse, in the workplace everyone simply want to get stuff done. How it works under the hood is of no interest to anyone. That's can't be me for sure. I would rather starve rather than go back to these inferior languages.

I believe as humanity, that it's time to move on. From the olden days of clunky, awkward written code and a million frameworks, it's time to do work like a professional. A new era has come.

Security, Speed & Scalability are not merely nice things to have. They are to be the basic features of every moden software. Not to mention it's climate friendly and consumes less energy to execute. 

7 hours ago, Davino said:

I find the whole family of C too rudimentary and rigid

No comments.

7 hours ago, Davino said:

While python in my taste it's too open, everything works, no compiling, just interpreting, too liberal for my taste

Python is a joke.

7 hours ago, Davino said:

Java is the perfect balance, you get a robust, deeply hierarchical language that is open and flexible. I also like the class-based object-oriented approach, it suits my way of programming.

Java is indeed a nice language to be frank. But these things were the design choices of the 90s.

All these hierarchies can induce Needless complexity if you are not careful. Also there are a lot of tools like maven and IDEs.

I like a minimalist setup. I simply get in the terminal, work and leave. Peace. I can't stand all these extra stimulations. Rust allows me to get work done in a minimalist setup. That's heaven for me.

Not to mention, once you learn Rust, picking up other languages are going to be a walk in the park. Rust is the best investment you can make in your programming career. My only regret is that I didn't find it sooner. 

7 hours ago, Davino said:

Although, I'm not very keen on programming either. Still gotta finish the two degrees of computer science and telecommunications engineering that my past self thought would be a great idea and challenge to study simultaneously.

Godspeed G. 🔥

Edited March 22 by Bobby_2021

[Leo Gura]

I heard Google is developing a new better version of C++ called Carbon.

I think what would really be a game-changer is if someone invented a brand new language that integrates from the bottom up with AI. So that the AI does all the dirty work and the programmer works at a very high level, but there is zero performance loss. That is the future of programming.

Today's programming languages should become as obsolete as coding in assembly.

Edited March 23 by Leo Gura

[Davino]

9 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Android, Microsoft, AWS all are heavily leaning in on Rust by using Rust to build their own tools, starting support for Rust and investing millions of dollars in the Rust foundation. It's steadily growing. 

Yeah, it has been hitting hard for a while in fact. I recommend this article

Quote

Why Rust is the most admired language among developers?

For the eighth year in a row, Rust has topped the chart as “the most desired programming language” in Stack Overflow’s annual developer survey.

 

9 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Prevention is better than cure.

It is more intelligent language in that regard

9 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Even worse, in the workplace everyone simply want to get stuff done. How it works under the hood is of no interest to anyone. That's can't be me for sure. I would rather starve rather than go back to these inferior languages.

I believe as humanity, that it's time to move on. From the olden days of clunky, awkward written code and a million frameworks, it's time to do work like a professional. A new era has come.

Security, Speed & Scalability are not merely nice things to have. They are to be the basic features of every moden software. Not to mention it's climate friendly and consumes less energy to execute. 

That's a technological manifesto of work ethics

9 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

All these hierarchies can induce Needless complexity if you are not careful.

Yeah class-based object-oriented is double handes swords. But my taste of programming enjoys that hierarchical complexity and interralation. As Rust qualities also call to you but not to everyone nor every situation. Each language is it's whole world computation space. It is like learning chinese or french, but it is not human language, it is how a machine thinks. Language programming has indeed deep metaphysicals implications and are interwoven with the fabric of the mind of each individual that makes it call one suited for each individual

9 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Not to mention, once you learn Rust, picking up other languages are going to be a walk in the park. Rust is the best investment you can make in your programming career

The more you learn the deeper the language gets. All languages are easy t use or code but the level of mastery is substancial. Look how all this technological conversation is carried by dozens of programming languages and condification from router electromagnetic waves, to phtonic through fiber cables, decoded in bits, from chips and hardware, decomposing tcp/ip packets, through decryption, in connection with the whole internet network, to your computer, the display screen you are watching with it's refreshing leds. WIld when you think about it

9 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Godspeed G. 🔥

Hopefully next year I'm done. I'm planning on working for a consulting enterprise afterwards for a few years. Wishfully for McKinsey. I'm planning maybe to do some coaching course between graduation and getting a job. Give myself this breathing and acquiry new skills. I'm still thinking what my two final thesis are going to be about. I'm open to interesting ideas and if anything pops into your mind while reading this please do share. In computer science I am gravitating more towards  some kind of networks, distributed systems, some way to build complex intercomunicative networks from simple axioms or logic. That is the half baked idea that I've been entertaining. About telecommunications engineering I have no clue, people think they are similar degrees, they are not at all. THey study totally different layers of technology in the OSI map. Computer science studys 2 to 7. Telecommunications the first, the physical, it is all the physics and maths to bend the universal laws for our benefit. It's objectively twice harder than computer science. All my peers agree on this, it is so. Not so fun though. So hopefully finish succesfully and transition to the next phases of my life. It's something I'm lateley wishing for. Well I've reflected about my whole life here. Looking forward to listening to your inputs on thesis.

 

[Davino]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I heard Google is developing a new better version of C++ called Carbon.

Never heard about it

[EdgeGod900]

@Bobby_2021 Under a youtube video of Linus view of Rust and the future of Linux, someone commented, 

Quote

90% of things we have in IT is legacy. GNU is legacy, Unix-likes are legacy, tcp/ip is legacy, html is legacy etc.etc. Why are you picking on C? Compering to other things it's the least evil, C99 works everywhere, it's slim, concise, the entire language can fit in a single brain syntactically. Yes, it is error prone, and hard to master, but so is concurrency and other advanced programming, it is not about the language per say, but about complex interactions, you can build some guardrails sacrificing simplicity, but you can't make it perfect, nothing is perfect, every decision sacrificing one thing in the name of another thing.

And then some replied to the comment above by saying, 

Quote

because in the world of programming, common sense has taken a backseat and it's all about fashion and hype

any thoughts?

[Leo Gura]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_(programming_language)

[Bobby_2021]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I heard Google is developing a new better version of C++ called Carbon.

Yeah a new class of languages emphasising memory safety is coming out and it may even be better than Rust.

But developer ecosystem is a thing. A shitty language with a huge ecosystem will be easier to get work done than a perfect language with no support or eco system.

Rust has a bigger ecosystem so that will make all the difference.

Carbon and Zig were even poised to replace Rust sometime before. That clearly didn't happen and I hope it won't. Rust is good enough. I don't care if these new languages are 0.0087% better than Rust. Rust is 10x better than every other *popular* framework out there witha decent ecosystem that's steadily growing. That's what matters. 

1 hour ago, EdgeGod900 said:

@Bobby_2021 Under a youtube video of Linus view of Rust and the future of Linux, someone commented, 

And then some replied to the comment above by saying, 

any thoughts?

It's unreal to me that people will simply accept what is given to them with no concerns of broader implications or philosophy. 

What about security? What about developer experience? What about Scalability? You don't want your code base to grow so large that no one wants to touch it. Nobody even cares about these stuff. For me these are like the elephant in the room. 

People simply think, oh this is nice enough to get sub optimal work done and barely pay my bills. And jumps on to it. They are accuring tons of technical debt that their codebase would be easier to rewrite in Rust from scratch than use it to build something good or add features.

Then they look for "superheros" to save them from this pit. No wonder why they get burnt out so fast. They are paying for their karma. You will have to pay either way.

Rust pays it upfront in full. Like a one time investment that consistently gives it's returns over time. 

Other languages will make you pay by squeezing the life out of you and make you pull your hair out. 

[Girzo]

Python is great guys, you are just missing the point of who it is for. It's not for programmers creating online bank infrastructure, but for scientists doing statistics and like other computer stuff for which there is no built-in functionality in the system, you need to add it yourself.

Edited March 23 by Girzo

[Bobby_2021]

5 hours ago, Davino said:

I'm open to interesting ideas and if anything pops into your mind while reading this please do share.

Contributing to open source development in a domain of your interest is a nice idea. It's a trend to some level of free work to establish yourself before getting noticed for big roles. 

5 hours ago, Davino said:

That is the half baked idea that I've been entertaining.

Having lots of half baked ideas on different fields is a good thing. All of that will be useful somewhere in the future. Diversifying is a good thing. Especially early in your career. 

5 hours ago, Davino said:

It's objectively twice harder than computer science

CS is too easy to be a degree. Unless you are digging deep. The standard subjects do not offer anything deep. Except for maybe Discrete Mathematics.

5 hours ago, Davino said:

So hopefully finish succesfully and transition to the next phases of my life. It's something I'm lateley wishing for. Well I've reflected about my whole life here. Looking forward to listening to your inputs on thesis.

Good luck man. I love core CS and the philosophical aspects of it, although not proficient enough in the technical side. Hopefully Rust will save me.

Not an expert to give solid advice yet. Good luck. I can tell you are on the right path already so keep at it. 

[Bobby_2021]

23 hours ago, vibv said:

You can work with any programming language if you're a professional, but everybody has their favourites. So congrats for finding yours.

Point taken. But I am not pushing Rust simply because it's my favourite.

It's objectively better at the same time. Who wants a software built with memory issues and takes longer to run while consuming a shit ton of energy. There are things that makes some languages objectively better. 

It's not merely a matter of preference. 

17 minutes ago, Girzo said:

Python is great guys, you are just missing the point of who it is for. It's not for programmers creating online bank infrastructure, but for scientists doing statistics and like other computer stuff for which there is no built-in functionality in the system, you need to add it yourself.

It should ideally be a scripting language. Made only for small scripts and executing small stuff where the logic of the code is too trivial. 

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I think what would really be a game-changer is if someone invented a brand new language that integrates from the bottom up with AI. So that the AI does all the dirty work and the programmer works at a very high level, but there is zero performance loss. That is the future of programming.

Seems like an over kill. You need to input the whole business logic to the AI very clearly for it to spit out code.

If you are describing the business logic so clearly, you might as well write the code , without having to correct and fight with the AI.

AI can only do boring tasks well. It fails miserably at creative ones. It's like having a prodigious intern to help you at all time. It only has the capacity of an intern and a very good at that. It's good to have it by your side. Like Github copilot.

I would not use AI for any mission critical systems, or any software that I build. Atleast not directly. 

Edited March 23 by Bobby_2021

[EdgeGod900]

@Bobby_2021 Definitely see the potential of rust. I'm the type that values simplicity, be it at the cost of scalability,security,etc.. 

 

If in the future C becomes obsolete, I'll still keep using it, and if the time comes when the C job market is dying down at a fast rate, I'll just start to write in pseudo code on paper to make my death even that much faster. Because thats how much I value  simplicity.

 

Again, I see a lot of potential with rust. The fact the compiler will catch a lot of errors and even help you optimize your code is nice.

Edited March 24 by EdgeGod900

[Bobby_2021]

2 hours ago, EdgeGod900 said:

@Bobby_2021 Definitely see the potential of rust. I'm the type that values simplicity, be it at the cost of scalability,security,etc.. 

 

If in the future C becomes obsolete, I'll still keep using it, and if the time comes when the C job market is dying down at a fast rate, I'll just start to write in pseudo code on paper to make my death even that much faster. Because thats how much I value  simplicity.

 

Again, I see a lot of potential with rust. The fact the compiler will catch a lot of errors and even help you optimize your code is nice.

Are you a c developer? 

[Ramanujan]

Use GTD and grind your way through life

[OBEler]

I am a C# and angular full stack developer. I can see that AI will make coding obsolete, it's just a matter of time.so falling in love with a programming language is not good. It will be replaced one day through AI. Just grasp the fundamentals and on the rest AI will take care of.

Edited March 26 by OBEler