History of the Nakba.

[Nivsch]

@Karmadhi They were countless trials of Israel to make a two states deal and it has failed, along with couple of signed agreements in the 90s but the Palestinians chose terror. What has changed in the map is the settlements in which 80-90% of the Israelis are not interested at all.

Edited March 19 by Nivsch

[Husseinisdoingfine]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No they wouldn't. And that's the whole rub. They take and take and take, with no shame or self-awareness. They don't want peace, they want land.

But the Palestinians were offered a two state solution from the very begging of this conflict and each time they turned it down and resorted to violence. Doesn't this prove that its the Palestinians who refuse a two state solution? Even when Ehud Barak offered the entire West Bank, Yasser Arafat refused to negotiate, rejected the offer, and launched an intifada (uprising).

Even today Netanyahu is the only one who offers the most reasonable and tangible solution to the conflict, that being the Palestinians be given an autonomous region instead of a full state.

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

But you described now only the deep right wing which is a minority.

Even the average of the "Likud" (Bibi's party) don't have such a rigid ideology about a land from what I was impressed, apart from a minority of them + two small far right wing parties which indeed have.

   The deep right which was a minority? You mean the Igrun and Stern gangs that were militarily trained by GB'S army then before the Al Nakba, to then going onto terrorized attacks against both British soldiers and Palestinians, killing a few soldiers, and instead of getting tried and guilt some of them went onto becoming prime ministers of Israel in the future? How are they a simple minority then, during the Intifadas and now, which still holds more power today?

[Danioover9000]

@Husseinisdoingfine

2 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

But the Palestinians were offered a two state solution from the very begging of this conflict and each time they turned it down and resorted to violence. Doesn't this prove that its the Palestinians who refuse a two state solution? Even when Ehud Barak offered the entire West Bank, Yasser Arafat refused to negotiate, rejected the offer, and launched an intifada (uprising).

Even today Netanyahu is the only one who offers the most reasonable and tangible solution to the conflict, that being the Palestinians be given an autonomous region instead of a full state.

   Why did he launch an intifada in the first place?

[Merkabah Star]

On 18/3/2024 at 11:31 PM, Danioover9000 said:

@Nivsch

   Okay, chill with the poisoning the well fallacy, as stated I will find other sources and documentaries covering this event.😊

They have to control the narrative to such extreme levels. There is nothing wrong with Aljazeera. 

As for the current Nakba taking place, this one is different because we are watching it live on our phones day by day. And everyone around the world can see exactly what they are doing and how they are doing it. Wait for the Gaza documentaries, Nakba 2. 

[Nivsch]

@Danioover9000 I am talking about nowadays.

The ideologists who want all the land including west bank are a minority.

[Tudo]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

But you described now only the deep right wing which is a minority.

Even the average of the "Likud" (Bibi's party) don't have such a rigid ideology about a land from what I was impressed, apart from a minority of them + two small far right wing parties which indeed have.

You have a hidden agenda or you are just dumb or too innocent. Just stop for a second and look for what Israel is ACTUALLY doing, just for a second would be enough.

[Danioover9000]

   Now this might be a geopolitical event right here;

   Now what would Israel do with no oil?

[Vrubel]

27 minutes ago, Tudo said:

You have a hidden agenda or you are just dumb or too innocent. Just stop for a second and look for what Israel is ACTUALLY doing, just for a second would be enough.

Ah shit, here we go again with the ugliness, projection and useless discussion. (insert GTA San Andreas meme)

7 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

 Now what would Israel do with no oil?

You share straight-out fake news. Israel doesn't buy oil from Arab countries. Israel gets most of its oil from Azerbaijan, a friendly Muslim country. 

[Vrubel]

 

[zazen]

Another 100+ page Isreal Gaza thread incoming - we had some good times in the locked one haha.

We’re like a dysfunctional family at a Christmas dinner with a love hate relationship.

As long we don’t get toxic to the level below:

Hope everyone’s doing good.

Edited March 19 by zazen

[Vrubel]

28 minutes ago, zazen said:

Another 100+ page Isreal Gaza thread incoming - we had some good times in the locked one haha.

We’re like a dysfunctional family at a Christmas dinner with a love hate relationship.

As long we don’t get toxic to the level below:

Hope everyone’s doing good.

haha, love? I detest you people(;

 Cenk is a genuinely loving person, definitely not anti-Semitic but he lacks in key wisdom and some basic chill. He needs to wise up and take a chill pill but he makes millions of dollars arguing his standpoints so he has no real incentive to do so. 

Edited March 19 by Vrubel

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Tudo said:

You have a hidden agenda or you are just dumb or too innocent. Just stop for a second and look for what Israel is ACTUALLY doing, just for a second would be enough.

I understand you feel unconfortable reading this.

I live among Israelis I know their thinking.

I feel the survival in my body even though I live deep in an Israeli zone, far from the conflict zone.

From outside is so easy to fall into the illusion of the big Israel vs the "small" palestinians. The truth is different and much more complicated.

They are 2 million Palestinians sitting in an area which is greater than central Israel.

There are also 2 more million Palestinians living within Israel (Israeli Arabs) peacefully nearby the Jews - you will be surprised - right fucking now.

When you understand the big context in a more balanced way, then you will automatically see that IDF acts in the West Bank are almost completely out of a deffensive strategy (not without problems! but deffensive).

Your perception on Israel's actuall doing (as you mention it) will be then changed when you will be able to embody our survival position. Very difficult from distance when you don't have to deffend yourself from terror for 30 years.

Most Israelis are not interested in the land of West Bank. This is a fact you can argue with to the moon and back.

Edited March 19 by Nivsch

[Leo Gura]

Keep your responses respectful, without personal attacks and insults.

Edited March 20 by Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

 

 

   Decent documentaries.

[ExplorerMystic]

What is going on in Palestine is systematic genocide . The west has denied it earlier but water is spilling over now & they have to accept it. It seems the regime already got success in what they wanted "The Land".

Arab countries are silent and just protesting which every of their politician know they have to do it because of anger within the public of these countries. . "UN" as always of no use. A pure example which history will remember how millions of people are cramped within an area with no food , water & continuous bombing. This was allowed with some country fully supporting it which actually proclaimed to be democracy, & believe in humans rights.

The only way out of is to people to wake up & keep these politician , Autocrats , Ruler , Corporates in check with continuous questioning (Voting , Social media , protest etc). 

This person can only feel compassion toward the life lost, countless struggling for food & their survival.

 

[Karmadhi]

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

When you understand the big context in a more balanced way, then you will automatically see that IDF acts in the West Bank are almost completely out of a deffensive strategy (not without problems! but deffensive).

You can frame everything as a "defense strategy". Russian invasion of Ukraine is also a defensive strategy to protect itself against NATO, its historical enemy. Yet we can agree that the invasion is wrong and not the way you go around protecting yourself. Same logic here.

2 hours ago, Nivsch said:

I feel the survival in my body even though I live deep in an Israeli zone, far from the conflict zone.

From outside is so easy to fall into the illusion of the big Israel vs the "small" palestinians. The truth is different and much more complicated.

They are 2 million Palestinians sitting in an area which is greater than central Israel.

I can understand on an invidiual level your life can be threatened but as a collective, Hamas or whoever in Palestine cannot threaten to wipe out Israel from the map. The balance of power is too big. It would be like USA fearing Puerto Rico or something. Terror attacks are not existencial threats. Existential threat is all Israeli cities razed to the ground and a death toll of 1 plus million. Do you think Hamas can do this? I am sure they want to. But do they have the actual capability?

[Karmadhi]

2 minutes ago, ExplorerMystic said:

What is going on in Palestine is systematic genocide . The west has denied it earlier but water is spilling over now & they have to accept it. It seems the regime already got success in what they wanted "The Land".

Arab countries are silent and just protesting which every of their politician know they have to do it because of anger within the public of these countries. . "UN" as always of no use. A pure example which history will remember how millions of people are cramped within an area with no food , water & continuous bombing. This was allowed with some country fully supporting it which actually proclaimed to be democracy, & believe in humans rights.

The only way out of is to people to wake up & keep these politician , Autocrats , Ruler , Corporates in check with continuous questioning (Voting , Social media , protest etc). 

This person can only feel compassion toward the life lost, countless struggling for food & their survival.

And to think this is justified in the eyes of many, because 700 or something people were killed by some terrorists. Insane how stupid humans can be.

Edited March 20 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

8 hours ago, Nivsch said:

They were countless trials of Israel to make a two states deal and it has failed, along with couple of signed agreements in the 90s but the Palestinians chose terror. What has changed in the map is the settlements in which 80-90% of the Israelis are not interested at all.

Because to them Israel is a fake colonizer country that should never have existed. That is the sad truth of how they see it.

From what I saw they treated Jews quite well before WW2 so I am still unsure why a Jewish state was needed in the first place. Was there hardcore Nazi type of discrimination against Jews?

 I lack education here so I am open to corrections as long as its not Zionist sources.

This deep hatred was created by Israel being created as a state, I did not find much sources of Jew hate before 1947 and 1920s to be more exact.

Edited March 20 by Karmadhi

[Merkabah Star]

5 hours ago, zazen said:

Another 100+ page Isreal Gaza thread incoming - we had some good times in the locked one haha.

We’re like a dysfunctional family at a Christmas dinner with a love hate relationship.

As long we don’t get toxic to the level below:

Hope everyone’s doing good.

A Rabbi and his daughter with a kosher, sex toy business is a bit strange. 😀  I listen to Candaces podcast at times and she goes off about him and his daughter all the time. 

It’s hard to watch Piers most of the time as it’s just an all out war on his show. 

Closing the other thread was fair but this topic is hard to kill.