Am I an artist

[vibv]

4 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Boring, uninspired, meaningless, lifeless, motionless, tells no interesting story, does not provoke any thoughts or feelings, does not stand out in any way kind of art.

I like what you said, but still, there is bad art. All around you. In fact, the majority of what we call 'art' is bad. Only a very few rare gems stand out.

As an artist, you need skill, yes, but you also need much more than just that. A true artist is awake as fuck. And that's not an accident.

 

You're absolutely right. But I wouldn't call that art in my books, it's mundane repetition, reproduction. Art is alive, what you described is lifeless, often done because "it works", or sells, or whatever.

It's what AI does. It takes the input and combines the patterns in a different way. But real art goes beyond that. Real art creates something completely fresh and NEW. It comes directly from the source of all Life itself.

Real art challenges the artist as well as the audience.

There's a reason why real art is so seldom achieved. It is extremely difficult to make a living out of it, as a real artist is often ahead of their time.

Edited March 15 by vibv

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, vibv said:

What is bad art? Art and bad exclude one another.

There's tons of bad art in the world. Haha. Most art is bad. Which is why good art is so valuable.

You're doing the no-true-Scotsman fallacy here.

Edited March 15 by Leo Gura

[vibv]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There's tons of bad art in the world. Haha. Most art is bad. Which is why good art is so valuable.

You're doing the no-true-Scotsman fallacy here.

What even is art? In the broad sense, of course there's a lot of uninspired or downright "bad" art.

But it's at the same time easy to overlook really good art. There's a reason why so much of art is pretty much copying already existing things. It just works.

Let's look at it that way: There's a spectrum of good vs bad craftsmanship and there's a spectrum of true art vs. uninspired cookie cutter art. Like a 2D graph.

A lot of the music that gets played in the radio is extremely well produced, but often lacks originality and depth.

The struggle for an artist is to develop the toolset needed to bring that spark of inspiration to life before it fades away. And even then it happens again and again that the best art is only appreciated much later. Best examples are Van Gogh, J.S. Bach (he made a living out of his music but it wasn't nearly as celebrated as it is today, it was seen as outdated because it didn't follow the trends of its time at all) and a lot more of course.

There are artists who are naturally gifted at what they do, but it is not always the case.

My point being.. it's not always so easy to separate good from bad art. In my view the crucial criterion is if it stems from a place of True Creativity or if it just aims to be useful in one way or the other.

[Leo Gura]

A lot of bad art these days is just a corruption by rampant capitalism. The Disney-fication effect. It's not really art, it's a money-grab with an art veneer.

But even if you took all the corporate assholes out of the process, making good art is still really hard. Just because you are being highly creative and genuine does not mean your art will be good. You can make genuine crap.

Edited March 15 by Leo Gura

[vibv]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But even if you took all the corporate assholes out of the process, making good art is still really hard. Just because you are being highly creative and genuine does not mean your art will be good. You can make genuine crap.

That would be the other dimension I talked about: Good craftsmanship.

Being quick to judge a piece of art as good or crap also makes it likely to err sooner or later.

If that was easy to decide my life would be a lot less complicated... but also a lot less interesting

Edited March 15 by vibv

[ivankiss]

Most people are not even capable of appreciating real art. You must be at least somewhat close to authenticity  in order to value authentic art. Which most people are not. That's why they gravitate towards garbage. It never stops blowing my mind.

Most people are not worthy of ever coming across a gem, a true piece of art such as this, in this fake - ass world... But here you go. I guess it's because I love you and I still have some faith in humanity lol.

Gold

Edited March 15 by ivankiss

[vibv]

7 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Most people are not even capable of appreciating real art. You must be at least somewhat close to authenticity  in order to value authentic art. Which most people are not. That's why they gravitate towards garbage. It never stops blowing my mind.

Most people are not worthy of ever coming across a gem, a true piece of art such as this, in this fake - ass world... But here you go. I guess it's because I love you and I still have some faith in humanity lol.

Gold

Appreciate it. I like it a lot.

In my view there are paradigm shifts waiting to happen in every field, including music. One day we will recognize that art has more significance than even physics.

[ivankiss]

@vibv Glad you dig it!

All douchiness and artsy fartsy arrogance aside, it really comes down to the individual. Some like this, others like that... it's all good.

 

[Nemra]

Everyone has a different taste. In my opinion, the more purely or deeply subjective it is, the greater the art is. Demonizing shallow ones makes you a hypocrite.

Edited March 16 by Understander

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

A lot of bad art these days is just a corruption by rampant capitalism. The Disney-fication effect. It's not really art, it's a money-grab with an art veneer.

But even if you took all the corporate assholes out of the process, making good art is still really hard. Just because you are being highly creative and genuine does not mean your art will be good. You can make genuine crap.

But “bad” is an illusion. It is just your personal judgment. No art is bad. God can be found in shit as well as gold. If you see bad in reality, then you are in Devil Consciousness and aren’t in God Consciousness and therefore aren’t awake.

There is art I don’t care for, but that is my bias and has nothing to do with the art itself.

I would also argue that everyone is an artist because God is everyone. I don’t see how you come to your conclusions here. If Hitler is an artist, then Seth Godin is as well. Hell, he even writes and moves people through his words just like you do. Art is everything. This computer is art and even this post and forum is art.

Edited March 16 by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

But “bad” is an illusion. It is just your personal judgment. No art is bad.

No. There are relatively objective measures of good vs bad art. This is distinct from whether the art aligns with your personal tastes.

For exmaple, I dislike rap and heavy metal music. But there is still a difference between good vs bad rap and heavy metal music. Just because something doesn't fit my personal tastes does not make it bad art.

Edited March 16 by Leo Gura

[BojackHorseman]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

But “bad” is an illusion. It is just your personal judgment. No art is bad. God can be found in shit as well as gold.

No art is actually bad, since all art can match someone's needs and make his life better for a even a moment (maybe some Marvel charactersave someone's life at some point, just for the sake of exagerating)

But I think, starting from there, we can still say that good art is art that stands out in the meta. Art that has had more thought and technical mastery used in a way that it serves the story in them.

[BojackHorseman]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No. There are relatively objective measures of good vs bad art. This is distinct from whether the art aligns with your personal tastes.

For exmaple, I dislike rap and heavy metal music. But there is still a difference between good vs bad rap and heavy metal music. Just because something doesn't fit my personal tastes does not make it bad art.

Yes, usually people to go towards the same judgment about some albums. 70% of people or probably more will call such and such album great or bad.

So that definitely means that we have some kind of standards about what's good or bad.

This could be learned, maybe, but it's also certainly various parameters that make the songs more efficient in what they're trying to achieve for humans as we are to this day (maybe in 100 years this will all seem like rubbish considering how we evolve, but that's another story)

[Leo Gura]

Tastes vary widely, but everyone can tell when something is made in really poor taste.

[Salvijus]

8 hours ago, vibv said:

What even is art?

I asked once the same question on the forum and I got an answer that I remember till now even. 

"art is something that uplifts your spirit" 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

"art is something that uplifts your spirit" 

Like a basket of kittens?

[Salvijus]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Like a basket of kittens?

Nature is very beautiful art indeed

[Salvijus]

"What is bad art"

To follow up on the previous thought. Ego is a bad art because it downlifts your spirit. And so all the manifestions of it: anger, judgement, fear, depression, attachment, lust, slothfulness, greed, disease, war etc. These expression can come through many art mediums/shapes/formats. Anything that puts you down basically. 

Edited March 16 by Salvijus

[mmKay]

Fart = F grade Art

[vibv]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Tastes vary widely, but everyone can tell when something is made in really poor taste.

People really disliked Van Goghs early works back then 

I find this whole question extremely fascinating, it resurfaces again and again for me: What makes bad Art bad Art? Who can even really judge that? "You just know it" isn't a very good argument.

I think, again, this graph gives at least a hint in some direction: