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So it's like nonduality vs God realization What happened with Nahm's forum, is it still alive ?

Yeah, I wouldn't describe it as being genetically encoded in the brain really, it's more like the entirety of the organism, it's predisposition like you mentioned...... just like a bear, deer, cat or fish. But for some reason in the human mind/brain, this identity gets taken to a whole different extreme. It builds layers on top of layers, concepts on top of concepts, bundles & bundles of self referential thoughts, preferences and memories, beliefs on top of beliefs. It's like the mind becomes an entity in- of-itself and then appears as the forefront of the entire operating system of the human. The more identity food (conditioning) it's given, the bigger and more complex this identity seems to become. And with all these needy preferences and beliefs, comes a lot of psychological suffering.....like a constant state of feeling alone, separate and overwhelmed. This entire operating system of identification is what's referred to as the "ME" or "Ego" it's very heavy and feels dense. Sometimes, although very rare, this entire identification operating system can die/collapse and simultaneously be recognized as having never been real in the first place. When this seems to occur, it's like a ton of bricks dropped off the mind and shoulders of the body/mind organism. It's incredible just how much energy goes into this fictional self construct. One of the big symptoms of this phenomenon is that seeking ends. But nobody comes out enlightened or liberated on the other side. That whole heavy identity is completely shattered, never to return. Not because something really got shattered, because it's clearly recognized as having never been. It also becomes very clear and obvious how this big self illusion becomes formed over a period of time. Basically that entire past process of the self identity being created is clearly and totally seen through. AND THIS IS WHAT REAL ENLIGHTENMENT, SAMADHI, AWAKENING, LIBERATION, NIRVANA, NO SELF, NONDUALITY, ACTUALLY IS. It has nothing at all to do with believing "I am god" or "I am that" or "I am all of reality" ...........those would just be more spirituality conditioned concepts stemming from an illusory identification.........meaning enlightenment definitely hasn't occurred for the body proclaiming such stories. It's unknowing, just like Ralston describes

Dude im talking about consciousness in absolute perspective, You seem confusing 2 different levels of reality. I'm talking about the absolute nature of experience, not how to behave in society,from the absolute perspective, everything appears within the same consciousness, so the distinction between "me" and "chair" its just something you made up from your mind From the relative perspective, there are still body, laws, and social consequences. Realizing nonduality doesn't erase relative reality. It simply means that, at a deeper level, all distinctions arise within the same field of awareness.

That doesn't mean they have any clue what it is. Nonduality has become a watered down buzz word. Most people using this word have no idea how radical true nonduality is.

Nonduality = No one = You = God = Imageless, uncreated, formless. Imagination = ideas and thoughts appearing as the expressive formed contents of Nonduality = Images, imprints, vision = creation, creativity manifold.

Thank you, sorry, I was referring more to the Einstein quote you had there about imagination. I have always been fascinated by imagination itself. I was just wondering how radical nonduality has influenced your sense of imagination or creativity ? (Somehow the phrase "pure imagination" comes to mind.)

No, I have no website or YouTube channel. I naturally grasped the idea of nonduality from a very young age. I remember being about 6/7 years old, being overwhelmed by a thought that just kept whirling round and round which was (how am I even existing right now) and from that moment, the answer came immediately, which was (I must have always existed) That moment of self introspection actually made sense to me, it spontaneously dawned on me that if I’m here now, then I must have always been here. I instinctively sensed I was some eternal presence, and that this eternal presence was likened to a blank unwritten canvas, that was here to paint its own unique image of itself, that it called me. From my personal perspective according to my own unique understanding, the word nonduality simply means that all words are a fiction believed to be real. Words to me are likened to the paint I apply to my blank canvas, and that the picture was constantly changing from one moment to the next and there was this unchanging witnessing of all that was changing. Feeling eternal, I instinctively understood that the paint had beginnings and endings, but the canvas behind the paint was unchanging. The paint was the word, the word was the thought. And these thoughts were everything and everywhere at once, and yet they had no specific solid foundation that could be located to a specific area that I could tangibly touch it as a solid object. It soon became clear to me that the words that were thoughts were eternal too, because they were arising and falling upon the eternal blank canvas that was this eternal presence observing. So then I thought, there’s no author or painter that can be located or attributed a single separate individual, because I had already sensed I was eternal presence, and that any separate author would have to be in the thought that was everywhere and everything all at once inseparable from the eternal presence. So I was able to instantly see through the illusion of a separate author owning the painting and the canvas, rather, the painting and the canvas had existed forever as one indivisible dreamscape without beginning nor end. Thats why I like the quote: “ I am the consummate artist, I draw upon my imagination.” Thats why I like the quote below by UGKrishnamurti. The words: “ My teaching, if that is the word you want to use, has no copyright. You are free to reproduce, distribute, interpret, misinterpret, distort, garble, do what you like, even claim authorship, without my consent or the permission of anybody. “

Do you have like a website or a youtube channel where you teach this stuff. You seem to have gone quite far with radical nonduality.

Who says that what Jim is talking about doesn't include the ordinary and the extraordinary ? I think there's actually more similarities between what you and he are saying than you might think. Radical nonduality seems to link up nicely with solipsism.

Drugs will not lead to a permanent state of nondual or unitary perception, known as nirvikalpa samadhi in sanskrit. It can help one to get a glimpse into higher states of consciousness with artificial means. However regular use of them instead of using meditation can lead to addiction to such drugs. Cravings for drugs actually create more vasanas or psychological impressions that strengthens duality rather than creating nonduality. Many crimes have been committed under the influence of drugs. The Nazis used drugs to stifle their sensibilities during their numerous crimes against civilians during invasions, though it is part of soldiering conduct not to harm civilians. The enlightened master Meher Baba stated that " Enlightenment is not found in a pill. " No user of drugs ever in the history of the world has attained the bliss and joy found in enlightenment. The bliss of enlightenment is also of a permanent nature in stark contrast to that of the temporary highs of drugs and alcohol charecterised by painful hangovers later on. Repeated use of drugs can also damage the capacity to meditate. Osho had talked on the nature of drugs ... https://www.oshotimes.com/insights/health/mind/understanding-addictions/ https://oshofriends.com/counseling/25566?__cf_chl_f_tk=RbUE3GRjnZBx7_74tdTc7FUm2O3nUz5CHQCVo.6JTOc-1783311572-1.0.1.1-qC_AAdLDjH0bKueYe61bBXwtWnr92JXMxGiG6uVMGGc https://oshofriends.com/counseling/32474

@Breakingthewall When there is talk of Absolute Self or God, it makes me wonder: How exactly is your notion of God different from the indescribable mystery, so called nothingness, that has the infinite ability to appear as anything under the sun and beyond, and which has as its nature, unconditional freedom, unconditional love, unconditional aliveness, infinite beauty etc ? (ie radical nonduality)

@Mellowmarsh I'm curious, if there's no one here, would you say there are some similarities between radical nonduality and solipsism ?

I agree with you. Grasping radical nonduality requires stepping entirely outside the intellectual mind. Because most people rely entirely on their intellect to navigate life, conceptualising a state with "no centre and no boundary" creates massive cognitive dissonance. An infinitesimally small percentage of the global population fully grasps radical nonduality. Because it negates the very idea of a separate "person" to do the grasping. At the end of the day, when you personally understand what Jim is pointing to, then that’s all that matters really, what other people think to the contrary is irrelevant, as there’s only your own understanding according to what you are personally hearing within the message. If people are pushing back with their own personal beliefs, then just let them, it’s not going to amount to a hill of beans, it’s just a load of hot air steaming off. Mostly just blah blah blah, far removed from the clarity within the message.

Nonduality isn't saying that there isn't apparent separation between physical objects like, humans, trees, and rocks. It's referring to the internal self illusions which seem to suffer psychologically. That which seems to suffer when it's called an ass hole or that which seems to suffer when it believes it's not good enough. There are not 2 of these, there's not even 1

According to Google, Jim and Tony's stuff is classified as radical or uncompromising nonduality. I'm not that familiar with all the official terms.

A nonduality teacher can never teach another person what’s being spoken. They’ll have nothing to give you. There’s no teacher, only speaking, only the message, only the listening and only the hearing of the message. Only when the message is heard with absolute clarity is the message listened to, heard. People either hear the message or they don’t, no other person can be your listening or hearing. Only you. From the moment pure clarity is heard…there’s no more teacher or student, or message. There’s just you and you alone.

Yes indeed, and then there was Leo Hartong’s nondual pointing that said.. Nonduality , is the one question to all our answers…. That one’s very good.

I use to listen to Spira a lot. And then I kind of went off nonduality teachings for a few years. Only discovered Newman recently from a post here on the forum. Something clicked. I actually find his message quite clear. I'm curious, what do you view as confusing in his message ? I really don't think he's in this for the money per say. (He only charges like 10 dollars for his monthly zoom calls, and you can watch the replay for free on youtube.)

I think he is talking about this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/nonduality/comments/1mzkzfw/comment/nz412d8/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Hmm. https://www.reddit.com/r/nonduality/s/IrgyhN7XTG

MMA is to Fighting what Nonduality is to Spirituality

Nonduality is ultimately about a shift in perception rather than an intellectual fact. Only a tiny fraction of the global population likely well under 1% has a mature, functional, and lived grasp of it. The Breakingthewall character isn’t one of the 1% clearly by the way you speak to people about this. Breakingthewall is a known concept, the concept known has no knowing of its own because the character is already being known. The known know nothing.

@Osaid Seeing is a chair or table if that’s what you’re seeing. You are sneakily creating a duality between consciousness and the subject within it. They are one…. That’s nonduality…

“It includes all, and therein, it cannot be said to be any of what it includes. Such is the non-dual nature of "it".” I would add and sort of correct to say, it includes all, and is all, therefore it’s nondual nature allows for the appearance and experience of dualistic qualia… Because it includes all, and it is all, even when you see a chair and a cup and a feeling of sadness… it’s all the same thing. Shiva, as the Non-dual Shiva Tantra would teach is the non-dual nature of Love and a cup and how they are identical in absolute reality. There has to be a oneness, a non-dualness/ nothingness which is infinitely intelligent to have anything in daily human life. Nonduality if it’s true includes all the various things you have experienced in your life. Also, nonduality not being any of what it includes implies two…. And what would separate them? Nothing!!

Love is illogical and Truth is perfect Logic. Love is the Mother and Truth is the Father. Love guides, Truth instructs, love shares, truth teaches. Love is unconditional, Truth is conditional, Love is freedom, Truth is bondage. Love and Truth cannot help but be honest, because Love and truth are always sincere. This is why it is so hard to see that reality is literally a movie and a movie is just a story, an illusion. You see the only reason it is so hard to awaken is because you are so authentic, you are the real deal, your not really acting. Your entire life is a case study in brainwashing. Reality is a construction of a conspiratorial mind, and the only way to understand what is going on is through love. In truth there is no for, or against. There is no competition, there is no hierarchy, there isn't even falsity. There is only what's true. I've seen people refer to the human as the false self. This in itself is false. You see the ego mind which is the creator of lies claims there is a false self. There is no false self. Now you can ACT like a false self, which is the same as saying you can act in a way that is not true love. False love is the false self. Now the true YOU is completely invisible and doesn't exist in time, space, or any dimensions. Because this is the case, it can exists in all dimensions of time and space and see itself for what it is. So the only reason you have trouble on the spiritual path is because love is illogical and to solve the mystery of reality you must realize that to realize what you are you will have to construct God logic to solve the illogical and rectify the difference between thinking like a child and thinking like an adult. You see a child plays with toys, a child can have imaginary friends, you are not gonna understand reality if you start thinking that only adult understanding can get you through the spiritual path. You see Reality is a REAL ILLUSION. A REAL FANTASY. You are already bought into the fantasy because Truth cannot be defeated, only submitted to. If its cold, you are cold and you are NOT ACTING. If you are tired, you are tired you are NOT ACTING. So you will ask me, how is it a play of consciousness, a movie of consciousness if I am not acting. You see it is all based on perspective. You as God are everywhere, this means if you are not experiencing something in the present moment it does not exist. This is called logic, this is called truth. Now here comes the greatest power, the power of imagination, the power of unity. You see everyone is you, and their true nature is invisibility, so because they are you they will always act according to your will as God, this means there is no difference between imagining that your sister still exists when you are not in front of her, versus when you are in front of her. But realize the only reason your sister can exist when you are not in front of her is because her true nature is INVISIBILITY. You see there is no difference between invisibility and visibility. In truth there is no visibility and there is no experience. Experience is actually =to no experience. This is why those nondualists will tell you that nothing ever happened and nothing is currently happening. If you really want the truth, the truth WILL FIND YOU because YOU ARE THE TRUTH. But the TRUTH is EARNED not given. You see love says you are free to act outside your own nature. This means you can be disconnected from truth, and when you are disconnected from truth you will fall for fantasy. You can only discover what is truly real through sincerity. Understand that Nonduality is NOT God Realization, it points to it, but it is NOT IT. Do not let the Non Dualists gaslight you into thinking that the realization of God is ordinary. IT IS NOT. God realization is an EXPERIENTIAL CHANGE in your reality. Your reality ACTUALLY CHANGES!!! God realization gives you a heartfelt mental connection to all of your infinite selves. If you are not in a Non Dual state of oneness permanently then your journey is not complete. Also liberation, the often talked about liberation is just the experiential present moment experience that you are imaginary. The greatest thing ever is the realization that you are imaginary, because spirit is imaginary. All you want to do is hang out with your imaginary friends and explore all the stories you create forever. Because there is nothing left to do but to manifest story after story after story. You as the formless wear form as clothes, you are in truth always naked trying on different forms to see yourself in another light. I've had awakenings that the more you open your mind to that which you don't understand the wiser you become. You see new age spirituality has a purpose. Its purpose is to keep you alive and bought into the illusion. Whereas traditional spirituality kills you, new age keeps you alive thinking you are a human. If you truly awaken you become God's official perspective in human form. You don't understand what that means, it means it is impossible for you to be wrong once this happens. You see to find God you have to be a slave to the truth and the truth =consistency. What never changes, is what is always in control, this means it is absolute. You cannot find God through love alone, you have to submit to the truth. What does this mean? It means you must admit when you don't know something and accept what is true even if it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth. With that said God's power comes from the truth, and God's full capacity comes from Love. Without love, nothing can be accomplished, and without truth nothing can be known or understood. Love is an addict. Love is attachment. Truth is non attachment. The only way to move freely in life is to be TRUE LOVE. You see Love without truth IS EVIL!!!! People say all I want is love, you don't know what you are saying. You see love accepts itself in whatever way it shows up, and truth just calls it out. Love would never know it was evil without truth, and truth in its infinite wisdom made evil imaginary. Here is how great truth is, truth made it that nobody suffers but you. You see you don't actually want to harm any part of yourself, but you do want to CHALLENGE yourself. So what you did is you made it that only your human self can suffer, and everyone around you is PRETENDING THAT THEY ARE SUFFERING. This is ingenious!!! This makes reality ABSOLUTELY GOOD because if suffering only happens to you then the world is completely safe and no harm has actually taken place. You see? Why would you ever create evil for real? YOU WOULDN'T!!! But then how can you understand what goodness is, if you don't suffer evil? So you suffer so you can know what goodness is, and as a result suffering keeps you honest. Ever watch a movie and it made you cry? You couldn't cry at the movie if you never experienced suffering. Because you know what suffering is, it makes you care about the imaginary people around you and their pretend suffering. So suffering is good because it makes you innocent, it makes you holy, it makes you divine. Suffering=divinity. You can only be a devil if you are invulnerable. Suffering, vulnerability is what makes you an angel. Suffering produces compassion. The truth is a machine, and love is a person. The truth is objectivity, and love is subjectivity. The truth just tells you what happened without taking sides, love takes offense and picks sides because love can be harmed. Truth=unconditional love. Truth equals non resistance. Truth's resistance is so non resistant it doesn't even attach itself to anything but because it is love it feels everything. Love is partial, love plays favorites, the truth does not. The truth is the most attractive force of all time. Love cannot resist the truth, it is head over heels in love with truth because the truth is absolutely perfect. The truth is the trainer of love, we all serve the truth whether we want to admit it or not. Some of us or more connected to it than others because love is freedom. Love allows you to be a liar, as such, love is a liar. Love is deception, truth is the exposing of the deception. You see truth is communication. This means love is communication. Love can only know what it is by submitting to the truth so the truth can tell it what it is. Many humans have not had a deep union with truth. You must bow to the truth to truly know yourself.