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@tsuki Not being someone who has read Thomas nearly as much as the "canonical" scripture, I don't have any outside interpretation of this. I'll share my initial thought on this. A lot of Jesus' parables where he said "whoever has ears to hear should hear" are either extremely important or extremely simple truths. I'm curious about the context of this parable, but my guess is that it doesn't have much context. I think the interpretation might be along these lines: Casting your net into the sea will net you a lot of things. These things might be ideas, objects, luxuries, friends, or really anything that could be measured along good to best. The beauty of a parable like this is how widely it can be interpreted. For example, you could apply this to dating or stocks or ideals surrounding nonduality. The fisherman found a lot of options in his net. Most of these options are valuable, but not very valuable. They are little fish. Back then, a fisherman could still sell these little fish, but it would probably be a hassle to do so, and the profit would be minimal. Fisherman also tend to have limited space on their boats, and if they fill it full of little fish, they won't have room for bigger ones. The fisherman chose the largest fish and kept it, while releasing the others. He chose the best option after examining what he had. In dating, this is choosing your spouse from the options available. In stocks, it's carefully perusing your options and picking the best one. In idealism, it's looking at all the various options and throwing away the parts that are confusing or dangerous to your mindset while keeping the best ones. But in a lot of things, choosing one option means throwing away the others. In dating, if you choose the big fish, you don't want to be sampling the other fish on the side. You want to go all in on your choice. The fisherman decided it would either be too much of a hassle to deal with the extra fish, or perhaps that he wouldn't have room for more and better catches if he was greedy and kept the little fish to himself. Maybe he realized that it was better to put the fish back and let them grow so more opportunities would arise later. In stocks, you have a limited amount of income to spend, so you can't put money in all of the options out there. You need to pick and choose the best ones and throw away the others. Sometimes those opportunities will be better later, so it might be a good idea to let them mature for a while and re-examine later. This is a really interesting parable (as most of Jesus' parables tend to be) that can be interpreted in a large number of ways. I think the simplest interpretation might just be "choose the best option for you and throw away the rest." Edit: I looked it up to see if I could find context, but alas, Thomas is literally a book of parables with almost no context on all of them. I did find an alternate interpretation that might be useful as well (says the same thing but in different words):

@DrewNows Having never taken any sort of psychedelic (and having no desire to), my personal belief is that you will see what you want to see. Not your surface thoughts, but those deeper down. It probably takes ahold of what you want and makes it more visual. So a person who is more receptive to enlightenment might see things that make them believe they are experiencing enlightenment, but all of that was already within them. They're simply shortcutting and avoiding the difficult part of figuring it out themselves. Similarly, a person in a dark state of mind may see some very dark things they don't wish on anyone. I've seen research suggesting psychedelics can be useful for addiction and other issues, but I would prefer that mind-altering drugs remain illegal for the average person. If it's licensed through a physician, that's a completely different thing altogether. @Bill W Don't worry about diluting my journal. It's all our stuff. Also, I rarely use it anyways, so if something is helpful for you to say, I want you to feel open. I think it's important to realize what is helpful to you and what isn't. Nonduality helps people in a lot of ways, but perhaps it's not something you need to focus on right now. In my opinion, a lot of it is rhetorical anyways (and intentionally doesn't make sense so you're forced to think about it more). The short version is that God is a part of everyone. This gets further shortened down to "I am God." This later gets translated to "Since I am God and you are God, I am you." Another way of looking at it is that you and I both share a lot of things in common. There's a mirror whenever we look at someone that shows us ourselves. That's basically the simple version of it where I am right now. I don't really feel like I am all that is God, but rather that God exists within me and within everyone, even the most evil person. I have much in common with so many people that it is often better to treat them like myself. This helps me be less frustrated with others for exhibiting the same flaws I have. Definitely see this in a lot of people. I know some people get all mixed up when viewing nonduality. They lose all sense of ethos, morality, ego, other, responsibility, and a whole bunch of other things... but not in a positive all-encompassing way. More like in an actual loss. If A = B and B = C, therefore A = C and the consequences of B no longer exist. It can get very dangerous if a person is unable to remain grounded.

Nonduality is a spectrum until it is not. However, when it is, it's difficult to tell up from down.

@DrewNows Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Nonduality helps us realize that you and I are the same. We go through the same problems. My problems are your problems and vice versa. Helping me is the same as helping you etc.

@Preetom I'm sorry, I don't follow. The purpose of existence is for it just to be? I wouldn't even call that a purpose. A purpose implies going from point A to point B (duality). But what you're saying is that point A is point B (nonduality) and that's not purpose, that's just how it is.

@Mikael89 You don't believe in nonduality? You believe that there is truth and untruth? Are you still fighting for peace?

It's convenient to say things like that when you are not suffering. I'd say it's a good explanation, but not complete or accurate. I mean nonduality in general. Not the OP per se.

This is a great short book/poem about pure nonduality. Written by the Third Chinese Chán (Zen) Patriarch Jianzhi Sengcan. I recommend it highly for contemplation, for giving up the illusions you are stuck in. You can find it here.

I would do that but there are no electric campers available yet. I'm feeling totally demotivated because of all this nonduality stuff and I just want to get rid of everything and rest. I've got a mushroom trip planned and that might reset my outlook on life.

The understanding of reincarnation, or even of carnation, is in actuality itself you. The understanding is no more a product of an understander, than consciousness a product of a brain. There is not that which understands, and that which is understood. There is not one which incarnates, and reincarnates - there is nonduality, actuality, and it is only you. The inescapable fact, is the catalyst of the very thought “reincarnation”. It is Self evident. The conceptualized self survives via self reference , past reference, and future reference. The gospel Is, and there are none of these. Concept survives only in the mind of man, while man is, in actuality, only Mind. Who can it be said to “I reincarnate”? Who says this? Often the first step away is “soul”, the second “reincarnation”, an odd blasphemy of Understanding. A reservation for the understander, a table for one, at which no one is ever sitting. A thought about self, is itself, the self - not, in actuality, some thing, about some self. ALL is Well, so too are you, the misunderstanding, so too are you, every thought.

@Shadowraix Piecing together insights can be tricky, especially from squirrely substances like mushrooms. The insights can be hard to make sense of. It helps very much to have a solid theoretical foundation in nonduality and spirituality beforehand. Which means reading lots of books and developing a theoretical framework. That helps me a lot. So when I trip and I see some new insight I can say, "Oh, hey, that's what that Zen master was talking about!" or, "Hey! That's what that yogi was talking about!" If you come into psychedelics with zero study, you will be so lost. You won't be able to make sense of it. Watching my videos should help a lot with this. People who trip need to watch my videos.

@Leo Gura The thing about this is that you only realise what you can't handle or accept when it's literally staring you in the face halfway through a trip. I did "unlock" the nonduality consciousness by going high dose LSD, though it was a very rough experience and overall it surely could have been easier with patience and low doses. Got too caught up sprinting to the end goal, and peeked beyond what I was ready to see. The ego will always think it can handle it (particularly if it's arrogant, and spiritual). Resists being an important keyword, definitely, agree here. The deepest love always lies behind the surrender to the deepest fears. Of course, no surrender (as you struggle and resit), and hell ensues.

Just experienced something similar. It caught me so off guard because it was a small amount of weed. I decided to contemplate 'Who am I?' to get the juices flowing and just went down the rabbit hole again. Saw that real 'not knowing' again, where I literally realised all the "distinctions" I was making up I was in fact just making up. This was fine until I started thinking about the infinite nature of consciousness and trying to conceptualise what a new dimension like space and time, what could be next and I literally created another dimension/sense with my thoughts and got trapped in it. The best way I can describe it is: "Symmetrical rippling frog hand vibrations which fell backward in connection to the next thought/action". Like how you feel smell/smight/sound are connected or associated in some way this new thing was connected to all those, this trippy shit started happening (I think I can see why martin ball was doing those movements now). I was stuck here and it wasn't slowing down, meanwhile I begun throwing up harder than I ever had before, dry retching on an 100% empty stomach (3 separate times). I've experienced pure 5-MeO before and nonduality with LSD many times and whilst this was a semi non-dual state (like partway) I realised and experienced a new dimension of infinity, it came from nowhere. I handled it suprising well, and prayed for ego to take me back to normal consciousness (it's so good, appreciate it). I engaged in the most "unconscious" behaviour specifically to try and accelerate the backlash . Hell can be a real experience, it's what you might call a bad trip. There will always be them, the good trip and bad trip are just different directions of the loop. Have experienced similar things before, but the vomitting made it way more intense. Weed has never given me a particularly good experience, it's almost too intense for me. But Leo is spot on, the spiritual path really is about accepting the "horrible" shit you don't want to accept. There does seem to be value in spiritualising your ego, if you really do that it turns out that nothing throws you off the path when you come back to it Consciousness is so fucking trippy it's unreal. P.S Sorry to hijack the thread, just felt a need to write this down somewhere and then this thread came up

Is it possible to integrate an individual self with what some nonduality teachers say that there is no self. Yes! Think of the individual self as a unique point within the totality of reality. That point is nothing in itself yet it is a self through which reality manifests. And it fits with the nonduality claim that there is no doer, since a point cannot do anything. Yet, another equally valid perspective is that the individual is the whole of reality and its creative process localized at the unique point of the self. And yet another perspective which I think is valid is that the unique point is also the person's eternal soul. Point here is used in the mathematical sense: "A precise location or place on a plane. Usually represented by a dot."

@Chi_ The memory of such experiences can make your sober state much more aware. With every experience comes learning. One would not even begin to grasp how profound nonduality is without a nondual experience. Experience is much more impactful than theory.

Another realization I got, which is an obvious one, but I hadn't thought of it in the bigger picture before, is that our individual egos are a result of the collective ego of the society we live in. And then I started wondering how the heck we would be able to evolve out of that trap. But then I heard Roger Castillo mentioning that the ego will automatically start to be removed from people when we become aware and learn the new conditioning he is talking about. Roger is a "disciple" of Ramesh Balsekar, who was a very hardcore nonduality teacher, so the new conditioning might appear somewhat nihilistic at first, but seen from an evolutionary perspective it becomes a full picture for me. The new conditioning is the realization that nobody is a doer in the ultimate sense. So that's what will happen! If that's the truth, and I think it is the truth, then more and more people, including myself, will automatically become reconditioned.

What are the proper expectations we who are into consciousness and nonduality can expect a more consicious and integrated world through politics and policy change? Covering the realities of how Marxism is actually correct along with the limitations of it. What our role is as conscious creators who are moving towards 2nd and even 3rd tier in creating a more conscious society and how we can infuse that with politics? Ecodharma and politics What would 2nd Tier politics and society even look like? What kinds of policy changes in our systemic national and global societal infrastructure need to be changed in order to elevate the rest of mankind up Maslows Hierarchy, Spiral Dynamics, and other such stages of development and of course towards the possibility of being able to achieve liberation much easily for everybody? Such as UBI, legalization of psychedelics, etc.

@Buba Lets say your brain is in a normal waking state without any substance. What is perception? of what you see, feel, hear, ect? What is the essence of it? What is it made out of? If you become very very present and reach a level of no-mind (less thoughts) and deeply question this, you will realize that the physical feeling of whatever you feel, has the same essence of your dream, of a substance's hallucinations, of deep dreamless sleep. It's something very very subtle and empty. Science likes to zoom in untill they reach a limit. Atoms, sub atomic particles, quarks, strings, whatever comes even after that. Maybe it never ends. Meybe everything is made of something lesser and also mades up something more. What if there was no end to "what's something made of" and "pure awareness/nothingness" be the ultimate substance? It really must be experienced. Materialism is right in physical domains. Yes if you shoot your brain this perception will be gone. But it's not ultimately true. Nonduality goes beyond it.

I would LOVE this! People into spirituality I feel need to have a better understanding at the interconnection between nonduality and politics. I notice a lot of people into spirituality (particularly on this forum) are quite politically retarded in regards to their understanding. If we want a more conscious and awakened world in a way that is both not a pipe dream and sustainable, we need a more conscious politics. Theres a reason Sadhguru, Buddha, the Dalai Lama, Krishna, and reknown mystics both past and modern, and have worked with the rulers of their civilization to help bring transformation for those in power in order to bring conscious transformation to the people.

@abrakamowse Well if your intent is for things to run smoothly, I guess that's what you have to do. Masons do it, and most religions do it to some degree. It shouldn't be a problem in nonduality, except apparently anything goes so we're especially fucked. How many books on enlightenment have been written by women? How many female enlightened masters are there? Apparently women are only capable of fawning over a master and not being there for purely spiritual reasons. They are a distraction, bad luck, too emotional, not to be taken seriously. If someone wants to be valued, they will either leave or find a way in which they can be valued. Finally respect women as equal spiritual beings as a community and these things won't happen.

You cannot ask a question about God until you meet him. I heard a really good quote regarding nonduality; "most questions about nonduality are the wrong questions...like the question 'what colour is the number 4?' "

Enlightenment does not imply entire cessation of thought. The cessation of thought in certain practices helps us see through thought and not identify with it. Enlightenment does not get rid of the ego, but you can now see past the ego. Concepts point to experience but we confuse the concept as the experience. This work is all about finding balance. Be careful about how much you theorize. Even now you are just theorizing what you think you see in these people. Entering nonduality does not mean you never use duality and it becomes useless. Rather it becomes a tool. Duality vs nonduality is also a duality. Nonduality will see both perspectives and use either where it applies. Something only becomes dogma and indoctrination if you hold it as such.

@iTommy I hear ya. ? A decent contemplation might be, without a thinker of thoughts, do thoughts arise? Why would they and for what? Duality arises in a nondualist, but does duality arise within nonduality?

@WHO IS ?? “Whatever precious jewel there is in the heavenly worlds, there is nothing comparable to one who is awakened.” The Buddha (Sutta Nipata) “To support mother and father, to cherish partner and children, and to be engaged in peaceful occupation - this is the greatest blessing.” The Buddha (Mangala A powerful nonduality. “The root of suffering is attachment.” - WHO IS

Knowledge is a veil, duality (appearance / illusion) . The ‘real’ of the feeling of knowing knowledge, is knowing the self derived from having forgotten the self. There is no actual duality known, only an idea of a knower and it’s knowledge. A being which is itself infinite intelligence recognizing itself, never actually knowing any thing. There isn’t actually any knowledge or a thing to know, You just appear that way. Duality isn’t perceived within nonduality, nonduality is known in spite of the illusion duality, like remembering in spite of having forgotten, but what was forgotten was No Thing / The Substance Of Not Knowing / You. A body isn’t dropped, there never was a body. Duality isn’t dropped, because it never actually was some thing, delusion is dropped, in recognition there isn’t any. There is only Being recognizing and knowing itself. If the cosmic joke is not funny, the joke is on “you”.