Search the Community

Perhaps. The realization for me however was that this experience of being a human being, bound in time and space and illusion IS the reason we are having this experience of being human. This consensus realty we all experience may be the true hallucination, we are still having it. While it can have some value to peer beyond the veil to see maya for what it is, the purpose of being alive as a human is to experience being human, not flirt with nothingness. If you really think that a perpetual experience of Nothingness / God / Absolute truth is the goal, then suicide is likely the best option. But that is not why we are having a human experience. It is to live our lives, have experiences (both good and bad) within the relative matrix, share love and human connection and to value the beauty of this experience of being alive. There will be plenty of time for Eternity when we surrender back into the Void. But can you cook your dinner? Can you protect a hurt child? Can you make this worldly experience better for those around you? If not, then spirituality is really just narcissistic escapism. Being fully present and conscious in the ordinary is the goal of a spiritual practice IMO. Holding the hand of a dying loved one and letting the experience totally in, working on helping society and the Earth be better for everyone is the goal. Not experience transcendent states, live in bliss all the time or preach about solipsism, nihilism and spiritual narcissism.

In a recent video you said that having a strong trip and thinking you have healing powers and a few other things is delusional and a problem. A year ago you did exactly that and a youtuber recently pointed this out and gave evidence. You then denied that you were talking about your self and still stick to what you said, so you really are implying if anyone but you does it it’s delusional. I looked at his criticisms and he points out things that you actually say and do, which are true criticisms with evidence. You then cherry picked things like him saying you claimed to be a messiah (which you did imply saying the universe is grooming you), and then made it out like he was full on slandering you and trying to get views off you. Maybe he was getting views, (which isn’t different than you criticizing Jordan Peterson) but his criticisms all have evidence, you called him something of a ranting child, but you’re the one who did that just because he pointed out things you actually did, that has genuinely caused people problems, even a suicide. You also put words in his mouth when he says multiple times you’re not a cult leader, but your followers make you look like one. You do this every time someone criticizes you and you never consider anything people tell you, and then you accuse them of doing everything you do while deflecting, even after you do damage. You’re a hypocrite who can’t take an ounce of criticism but dishes it out.

Suicide is not the answer, because that is yet another survival drive masking itself as an "ultimate solution for everything". A solution for what exactly?: Well, only the fullfillment of another survival need. You have to give up the thing that is driving you towards suicidal thoughts. Only the ego wants an ultimate solution. Enlightenment doesn't come as a result of turning away from life. It comes from gradually acing life and going beyond it. Look at Sadhguru's life before awakening at 25. He was running multiple successful businesses. Suicide was the last thing on his mind at that moment. His being was simply ready to evolve to the next level, and all of it was several lifetimes in the making.

It is pretty clear your ideas of enlightenment are the problem. Suicide won't do it. If you are serious about suicide please contact 1-800-273-8255. https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/

I just changed the title to: "If enlightenment is the truth, then why is it so damn difficult to happen?" Are you happy now? Can you all stop obsessing about the words achieve/attain now? My thoughts immediately goes to physical suicide again. It's weird that not more seekers committ suicide thanks to all this constant talk about death, beyond survival, etc.

@johnlocke18 I understand your frustrations that there’s some things Leo has said in his videos that aren’t being acknowledged here. I’ll give an example just so everyone can understand why he’s still critiquing In his Outrageous Experiments in Consciousness video, Leo mentioned all sorts of things that Unconditional Love is willing to experience from 1:36:50 - 1:37:20. One of them was, “are you willing to put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger?” Now I understand that what Leo meant was, infinite consciousness is willing to undergo that and love that but still… you must see how that can be used as an explicit justification for spiritual suicide as a practice of unbiased love. Not saying I agree with that interpretation. But to say there’s nothing there that could lead one to suicide is irresponsible. That’s why the OP’s frustrated. Nobody’s acknowledging statements as explicit as the one I just mentioned. Now I’ll give Leo the benefit of the doubt. He’s super-busy and makes long videos. So maybe, just maybe he’s forgotten making such statements or maybe he doesn’t see how explicit they are I’m not telling Leo to change his teachings but these are just some things present within them that lead to these kinds of critiques. But look… if everyone thinks that such criticism is a distraction to the work on this forum, then I’ll offer my services. Just give me a role to answer to these criticisms so that they’re not distracting everyone. I’ve handled tons of situations like this already, if this is deemed necessary. Not asking for that role, just offering it if it helps

@Adamq8 So soonhei isn’t real? And you didn’t just tell me to be quiet and mediate when the forum is open to discussion? And you didn’t try to take my obvious hypothetical example out of context? Tell me what I’m saying that isn’t true? Leo said these things there really was a suicide and people really consider it a lot on here. I’m saying this stuff straight up and not adding anything to it or dancing around like you are.

@johnlocke18 Lol talk about gas lightning when you twist a claim of siddhis and healing into a suicide, that my friend is gas lightning if something is. You are believing your own projections, the funny thing is that no matter what someone on here writes you will twist that into a cult behaviour or suicide warnings. This particular topic has nothing to do with suicide. Healing powers and telepathy, how is that even related to suicide? Healing happens all the time for humans, impossible sicknesses that gets reversed, telepathy happens too and is a world wide known phenomena.

@Space “Just let it go man.” Yet someone recently talked about suicide being a solution because they can’t find enlightenment. You can’t just accept all of the problems in the world when you can say something. That’s why I gave an example of sitting by mediating while my family gets attacked.

@Space It’s not pointless because the claims influenced the suicide. The dude basically quoted him. You’re just dancing around it.

Correlation does not equal causation. Be careful with your comments about the user who committed suicide. This is very complex, nuanced and delicate subject which you are turning into mindless gossip. It's a completely separate matter. If you have some genuine and intelligent critiques of Leo's work, please do so. Trying to pointlessly debunk one or two things Leo said months ago is not useful or productive for you or for anyone else. Just let it go man.

@Adamq8 And you gaslighting me. I’m pointing out criticisms with video eveidence and you’re trying to say my mind is twisting things. That was a perfect example because you’re telling me to mediate instead of saying something about a real problem like people committing suicide on here.

It was an extremely poor example and has nothing to do with family in danger, look at the context and what this is about. Im not twisting anything, i gave you a genuine advice to pick up meditation, if you dont want to trust me on it, then look up the science on it. And what does suicide has anything to do with healing and paranormal phenomena? Suicide is always tragic but to put the blame on someone you should put blame on the world for it is thousands of people commiting suicide because society is a bit fucked up. And meditation is truly a skill that everyone should develop IMHO. If I somehow offended you im sorry. Perhaps my first response was wrong and I can understand that, but to make claims that it is evidence for cultish behaviour for recommending meditation, then you should perhaps contemplate why your mind quickly goes to "cult" because you heard it somewhere?

@Adamq8 I was giving a hypothetical example Of how ridiculous what you’re saying is. I said IF anyone attacked them. And no ones mind is twisting things but you guys. He said this stuff On video and people do talk about and have committed suicide on here.

@Adamq8 When did I say I followed him? I literally just found him and agreed with what he said because he gave video evidence. You’re no different than calling someone a Biden supporter because they criticized trump. You just gave evidence of the cult claims. This mob like mentality is personally why I stopped following Leo closely. Why not address what I said instead of making assumptions? A guy recently said he’s considering suicide on a post and even after an actual suicide you guys still take criticisms lightly.

When a frustrated seeker has been seeking for years without success, and has tried everything, at some point he/she might feel that only physical suicide is left to try, but the teachers say that physical suicide is absolutely forbidden..

So I should committ physical suicide? If not: why not? In the past I simply didn't try getting enlightened. I didn't try to stop trying, trying just fell off because of disinterest. So I should let go now? Ok 1 sec... No that didn't work either.

Thoughts About Incels, Redpill, Blackpill, and Other Similar Things The first time that I learned about incels was maybe 1 - 2 years ago while reading the dating subforum, before that, I wasn't spending that much time checking this place. From what I know, these groups are hate groups consisting of mostly sexually frustrated young men who think that they cannot get laid because they don't look good enough. When I learned about that a few elements resonated with me because: I was and still am a virgin. I did experience some shame in the past because society tells me that I need to be in a relationship and/or fuck women. I did have some resentment regarding women at some periods of my life because I never felt taken seriously by girls when I was at school. (However, who never felt a bit of resentment towards the opposite sex whether man or women? Almost nobody.) So... the following thought appeared in my mind: "Am I supposed to be an incel?". Then, I did a few more research and discovered some pretty crazy things: incredible levels of misogynistic views, calls for mass rape, calls for attacks on women, etc., and saw this as way too extreme for me. I also learned that incels create hate stories to explain their difficulties and label some people as Chads, Femoids, etc. And... that's everything that I know about incels. I also don't know that many things about ideologies like Redpill, Blackpill, etc. except that they are highly toxic ideologies with misogynistic views. I think that if I was desperate for relationships I could have fallen into that but as I didn't care about relationships most of my life, it didn't happen. And even if I did come across these things I think I would have avoided them because: 1. it would have reminded me of the trauma of seeing my mom being disrespected by my dad and it would have been intolerable for me. 2. my awareness is naturally too high for these things. When I see hate, judgments, stereotyping, and dumb ideological debates, I know something's wrong. I feel it when it's bad. Also, the obsession with look as being the only thing that women care about felt particularly dumb to me because I look good. When it comes to look, I don't fit the typical masculine standard. My face fit, but my body doesn't fit because I'm skinny. However, what I noticed is that I fit much more according to the feminine perspective (and honestly what else do I need?) because I had women telling me that I look very good, I noticed looks from women in the past, some people told me that I attract a lot of girls eyes, and my sister told me that all her friends think that I look good. Most of the time, I don't put enormous effort when it comes to clothing, I just dress simply with a tshirt/hoody and pants. However, I did notice that when I do an effort and put a shirt like this I get complimented and people notice me much more. I had guys getting jealous of me because of my look and I also had guys implying that because I look good I should get a lot of girls... well... no... not if you don't put yourself out. When I was in high school, I had a friend who was very skinny and with a less good-looking face than me... and this friend was incredible with girls simply because he was very social and funny. His look was never an issue for him, he didn't care and got a lot of success with girls. The fact that women only care about looks always felt like nonsense for me because I have the look. In one of his first videos, Leo said that he thought that good look would get him a girlfriend and it felt pretty dumb to me. When I think of incels I think of people with serious mental health issues. I see people who got brainwashed by pop culture and because they don't fit the portrait ideals they hide into shame or project it as hate, it is similar to religious people who cannot fit religious ideals and therefore live in shame. These people need serious mental health help which is the reason why I disagree with Leo's response here to — I suppose — an incel. They are some truth in this response, but I still think that this is inappropriate because if someone is complaining about a perfectly normal height than this person certainly has other psychological issues. Here are my thoughts about this case: Nobody knows anything about this person. Nobody knows his real mental state and his intentions. Some people committed suicide after posting on an online forum, but most people didn't. Suicide after an online post is definitely something that can happen and therefore needs to be taken seriously. If this person is depressed for such a ridiculous thing, then he likely has other interconnected issues that he needs to take care of first. Even if he goes out, approach girls, and get into a relationship, the relationship will be toxic because he has too much-limiting beliefs. #1 priority for a person like this is to fix his mental health and clear the brainwashing. That might take 1 year, 2 years, or more, but this is essential if he doesn't want a toxic relationship. The basic first, then girls. The tough approach doesn't apply in this case because we don't know that much about this person. Depressed people want help, they don't want to be ridiculed. In some cases, ridiculing can work, but they are too many unknown variables in this case. I want to conclude here with just a few thoughts about me. So, how about me? How do I see myself? Well... I'm just a guy who goes through life, who has his difficulties in life just like everybody, who had a lot of difficulties regarding relationships, but who wants to improve and who tries to do the best that he can to improve. End of the story.

Survival is not just about the body. Why does an islamist suicide bomber kill himself in the name of Allah? Posession, prestige, power... People seek these because of the survival of identity. Humans are not separate from each other, culture, beliefs, identity etc. In fact, "my physical human body" IS identity. Your individual physical survival is just one miniscule part of the Great Survival. Leo's video is also 'coming from' the social matrix, as are all the books he recommends. And so is this post of yours. If we 'only need to question what's arising within', why did you write this post? What exactly are you trying to do?

Hi everyone, I've just recently come across this still fairly new black pill community where guys say that nowadays you can only be good with women if you have really good looks (for the most part), and some other cliché things like money and status. They have YouTube channels where they analyze the looks of different guys, talking about the chin lines, nose bones and so on. It's pretty much the most negative group of people I've ever found online, still more negative then MGTOW and some extremes within the red pill community. They go as far as considering/recommending suicide or even mass murder to cause "structural changes" within society, to make women and "chads" understand that there is a price to be paid if you make a big percentage of men have miserable lives. Now, I'm not concerned about their belief system as in wether or not it is true what they say women want (as I know from experience that it's not how they claim), it's just that I'm still in disbelief, I really didn't think it could get that bad... What are your thoughts on this tragedy?

Yes. It will take much more than bad weather to make the human race go extinct. Humans will want to live no matter what. No matter the circumstances. Even if it only consists of massive suffering. It will always be worth living for them. Take for example the resistence against assisted suicide. It's illegal in many countries. Especially in Sweden. People are retarded in their brains because they irrationally always just want to live, and force life on others, even if it means massive suffering.

No. Deep spiritual truths ground and contextualize your existence. Transcendence is just another form of escapism. If that is the goal, then the ultimate way to transcend is to just commit suicide.

@Carl-Richard Yes. I had a psychotic episode about a year ago. After a very bad trip I spiraled down into very delusional and dysfunctional ideas and stories of metaphysics, spirituality and life. Almost committed suicide. Yeah this sounds about right. It's similar with all kinds of toxic ideologies such as incels and conspiracy theorists. Actual psychosis is just a lot more radical and 'personal', it affects the more fundamental levels of the mind constructing experience. Ideology happens still within social framework.

So one guy in my past relationships was someone who scammed me financially. I mean he would cry to me that he was in big trouble financially. And I would help him by paying his way out. I always had this instinct where I would jump to help people if they were in need. With this guy I had a long term relationship and at the end I discovered that he was lying to me and he was living well with absolutely no problems. In fact he was using me and exploiting me financially to get stuff for himself. And I was naively believing his lies. In the end I found out that literally everything he ever told me was a complete fabrication. I felt duped and scammed. I felt hurt, betrayed, exploited. I lost quite a lot of money and he disappeared from the scene so I could never get money back The money is really not the issue. It's the hurt and betrayal and all the long list of lies that hurts a lot. I felt like my feelings of compassion were being misused. I wasn't good at spotting his lies He would even give me suicide threats. So that's when I began to get suspicious of him. What are ways to avoid getting scammed when you want to believe what your lover says but at the same time you don't wish your trust in your lover to be taken advantage of ? How to know if your lover lying to you ? Especially being in love makes it harder to not trust.

@Federico del pueblo The blackpill resonates with people that have been having shitty lives. I got lured in aswell two years ago because it felt so true and it made so much sense From my experience, people in the community said that the new generation of incels ruined the incel community and it turned into a edgy fest of teens. It was supposed to be for figuring out ways to increase your attractiveness. that was the point of the blackpill to help the ugly people ascend from inceldom(xD). There's huge differences between being a blackpiller and a incel. Blackpill acknowledges that their faces are the reason why they can't pull numbers, so they go into looksmax communities to look for help, but that also got hijacked by teens now. Incels just wait for their death and sometimes visit sanctionsuicide(this got taken down by petition due to people suiciding and suicidal people giving advice on how to suicide without feeling pain) to resonate there better. @Enlightenment I think the most used gif is the one with Sean' o pry that says "Keep on coping you utter subhuman" xDD