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I know this sounds super rude. I think he is only famous because he committed suicide. There I said it.

I wanted to write this before I continue my studying because I felt I needed to express and verbalize in written form these heavy thought patterns and heavy feelings I've been having when I sat down on a chair to meditate a little bit for 10 minutes as a break from focusing my mind on studying and learning. Update: Sat still for 15 minutes felt the same feeling of fatigue engulf my mind and body. What I thought about and felt were thoughts about death, or to be more specific projected fears of me dying from my own hand as a result of failing to achieve what I set out for myself in life and failing to reach that standard, and giving up, not being willing to regress or degrade myself to a lower level of existing, thinking and feeling then I am currently at. There are of course regressions and downturns in life, but my fears I am having regarding this is of them being permanent and of not being able to return back, particularly to a state of consciousness and being in relation to the world where I once was when I look back at my murky memories. But what is stopping me from seeking death are the consequences of dying at this point in life, to be more specific, my imagined rule that if repeat the same fate as my mother has, the consequences would be extremely bad and difficult karmic chain to break when I, imagine, would return back to this earth again in a different form either to live out the unconscious punishment of that act or of having to go through the same mistakes I did and that I committed in this life until I learn from them and learn how to correct them. So, in essence, what's acting as a huge deterrent for me not to commit suicide is the inevitable heavy burden and karmic punishment that would result and occur in the next life, that would be severely worse and harder to endure than the one in this one, of having been unable to break the chain of suicides in my family with my mother's own reasons and undefeated pain and problems that led her to it, and because of the attachment and care I still have towards my father and grandmother of not wanting to cause them the, I am quite sure of it, the unbearable pain and suffering in their lives, that I fear the most, because of the loss of me, will push them as well down the path of not having a purpose and will to live any longer because of the unbearable I would inflict upon them If I would partake in such an act.

The "But the suicides!" was a major talking point against lockdowns and preventive measures, but that unsurprisingly turned out to be bunk. Suicides actually decreased in 2020. https://www.axios.com/suicide-decreased-in-2020-pandemmic-mental-health-26196eaf-a245-4d21-85eb-eeb864a24449.html

Let's say you are playing chess versus your girlfriend. In actuality, whether you win or lose makes no difference, except for the honor you either consciously or unconsciously project 'onto winning'. So, why play if it's all meaningless? Same goes with life. Why play? Why not just commit suicide if it's all ultimately pointless and meaningless?

Should someone do spiritual work if they are suicidal? I started all of this while I was very depressed because I realized the flaw in materialism. Problem is that if I can't even do basic stuff like going out there talking to people or get a job, then wouldn't the meditations almost be impossible. Like im expecting that I will transcend when I havent even met my basic needs as a human. Im trying to climb from the bottom of the pyramid to the top without sorting out all the things in the middle. The reason im typing all this is because Im pretty certain im going through a dark night of the soul. When I research about it online I get a lot of tips like continuing on the spiritual path and pray and meditate. I attempted suicide not long ago, the cops found me and sent me back. Meditation has lowered my ego, but the consequence of that is that I feared death less. If you guys think I should take a break from it, what else should I do? Surrender? My ego wont let me. Only temporary.

@NahmI have a hard time understanding what you just posted. Im aware that I am not my thoughts or feelings. I try to detach from it everyday. I dont think I'm ready to understand it either. Ill just accept that things are the way it is and work on the fundamentals. Exercise and diet. Having mindfulness. I don't have the free will to commit suicide anyway. Im being watched 24/7. I do admit that this spiritual work has been really dangerous to me and I wasn't ready, but I have learned a lot about myself. Just had an argument with my dad about it on how Leo has fucked up my brain. I got really pissed off but he is right. I do think though what Leo is doing is for the better for humanity. Not that I claim that I know what Leo "knows", but what he is saying makes a lot of sense to me so when I get caught up thinking about, committing suicide seemed so easy. Ive had temporary states of bliss during meditation and whenever I got out of it, the material world become a joke to me. Total garbage.

Important phrases and sentences in dialogue script Red butterflies Nobody will believe you Doctor uses the phrase red butterflies. Murder made to appear like suicide. Main plot Serial killer in the area Supernatural events Light outside the bedroom flickers on and off Nobody believes her Mutilation of pet Marriage is happy Turn of events There is a devil in the house Devil takes us one by one. Husband discovers proof Torn sheet in diary does not match message on table Police find no clues Puzzle pieced together Many more victims Rejection in school Saw her at a theater with hubby Revenge and discord. Retribution Murderous intent She wore red butterflies at the theater Tony escapes 2 murder attempts but lives to tell the story. Last attempt foiled. Killer caught. Closing scene - Tony visits grave of Anya. Last tributes. She wasn't lying Tony will always be there. Father's death was not a freak accident. Killer name is .. Mother's death was a mysterious illness. . But not so mysterious.

I feel trapped. I feel abandoned. I feel miserable. I feel like I'm in deep dark place, a room with no doors. LIKE a dungeon. Trapped, lonely No windows. No sunshine coming in. Nothing. Just darkness. Cold and dark. With nobody to scream for help. I feel tormented Nowhere to go These are the phrases running through my head right now. "LEAVE ME ALONE" "NOWHERE TO GO" "FEELING TRAPPED AND LOST" "DEEP DARK COLD DUNGEON" "ABANDONED, LONELY, BROKEN" "TORTURED AND TORMENTED. SCREAMING FOR HELP." If I ever commit suicide or die, these will be my last words.

@SempiternityDont know how to get those. Hope it will become more accessible one day. @kag101Im at a place where I get medical treatment. I sleep there so that I cant attempt suicide. Talk to psychologist. Gonna get sent to another place in a few weeks to go deeper into the issue. Im just asking should I continue some amounts of meditation or just have overall mindfulness. I think this is also a spiritual issue. So I'm not sure if medical treatment will be as effective. Gonna do some basic stuff like exercising and fixing my diet too. I have some gag problems though so gonna be a challenge. @neutralempty

A different experience than a solo mediation. It is basically a group meditation focusing on relieving some issues around the planet. I think the weekly End of Coronavirus meditation on Sundays is the biggest one. Here is their website: https://www.welovemassmeditation.com/?m=1 And their youtube channel with the guided meditations: https://youtube.com/c/WeLoveMassMeditation Some info: "Why Meditate? Why Participate in Mass Meditation? Dear Light Family, Now, in the beginnings of our new age, this new cosmic cycle, as the energies of our beloved Mother Earth have shifted, so, too, are shifting the energies of every living being upon her. More and more people are awakening and becoming aware of all that is happening, that the fields of consciousness on our planet Earth have shifted, are shifting, and that on, in, and around our planet, Lightworkers and Lightwarriors have been being very active to help bring about planetary liberation and change. Many of you are asking ‘how can I help?’ One of the best ways to provide energetic support to the Light Forces is by doing what many call ‘Holding the Light,’ bringing more positive energies and Light to our planet by doing individual and group meditations. For this reason, and by request, a global group of volunteers was formed, called We Love Mass Meditation (WLMM), to help make meditation accessible and easy for people around the world. For ages, mystics around the world meditated together during powerful times of planetary energies without having the benefit of the internet or social media. They knew about the solstices and equinoxes, they had ancient ways of connecting energetically, their astrologers/astronomers let them know when important cosmic events were happening. Indigenous people around the world have travelled to connect and shared with one another for tens of thousands of years. They knew and predicted our time would come. How lucky we are! Since the advent of the internet, connecting has become much faster and easier to create synchronized events where we can join together as ONE. There are times of the week, the month, the year, where it is most important to take advantage of the energies. The more people that gather together in meditation with powerful intention at these times, the faster we reach what’s referred to as ‘critical mass,’ at least 144,000 people concentrating, at one point in time, on Love, on Light, on Peace, we change our world for the better, raising global frequency, which affects everyone, and supporting the Light Forces. As certain events and situations are not planetary in scope, but localized to a certain part of the planetary surface, the critical mass of meditators to dissolve them is usually between 5,000 to 10,000 people. And we have clearly seen the results of this. For this reason, the We Love Mass Meditation (WLMM) team, a dedicated team of international Lightworkers, connected with other dedicated teams of Lightworkers around the world to create many Guided Meditations: audios and videos created at the sound frequency now known to be most beneficial to us and our planet (432 Hz) and in many languages, so we can combine the power of our focus and intent, and we worked together to find the best times to synchronize so that the most people in different time zones around the world can join together as One to help to bring about the change we all desire and planetary liberation. Most WLMM meditations are just over 15 minutes, short enough that people can take a break from their activities and long enough to effectively raise your own frequencies and the frequency of the planet, and scheduled at times when the most people can participate together. We invite you to join with us. Personal Benefits Indeed, meditation is a practice; and the more you do it, you will find the better you get. It used to be that you had to go somewhere to learn, find a teacher, but as we have evolved and human consciousness is changing, we know what the ancients knew: your best teacher is within you and meditation helps you to connect with your higher self. Some call it prayer. But not all prayer is meditation. Meditation is one of the oldest practices known to human beings for harmony, inner peace, and for connection to spirit. It has existed in many forms — in every culture, in every religion, all around the world. Shamans, gurus, yogi’s, mystics, medicine people, and seekers have practiced meditation in some form or another, since the beginning of time. It is a way to refine our experience, to open a new dimension to our lives, and to tap into a deep source of positive energy and joy. (1) When I began to learn how to meditate as a child, the elders who taught me did not call it ‘meditation’. I was 3 or 4 years old when they took me into the forest and taught me how to be still, in the now, and how to BE. Only as I got older, growing up in a cross cultural community, did I begin to learn about all the different methods and techniques. Back in those days, things like yoga and meditation were considered weird, people joked about contemplating your navel, and mainstream science ridiculed the concept. But as science and technology developed, lo and behold their surprise to find that the ancient mystics were right and there ‘really was something to all this.’ On the personal level, science found that training our internal mental lives results in positive effects on our minds, our health, and our relationships. Multiple studies proved that meditating increased compassion and social bonding, the more people meditate, the more skillful we can be in compassionate action. Amazing improvements were logged in creativity and divergent thinking, (2) and scientists documented improved visuospatial processing, working memory, and executive functioning. (3). Meditation gives us the opportunity to become more present with ourselves just as we are, connecting us to our inherent wisdom. Science now has proven benefits to cardiovascular and immune health, and that sustained long-term meditation increases gray matter, enhances the ability to generate gamma waves in the brain (among the benefits of that is making you stronger against pain!) It leads to something called neuroplasticity: the ability of the brain to form and reorganize synaptic connections, especially in response to learning and experience following injury. I am a living proof of that! Science has found that meditation can be better than sleeping. It develops cognitive skills, can reduce hyperactivity, impulsivity and increased “act-with-awareness” skill. It naturally boosts good brain chemicals, can balance the left and right hemispheres of the brain, and help you access your subconscious mind power, build health, and cure disease. There are multiple studies that prove meditation is more effective against depression than the pharmaceutical solutions contemporary medicine offers. A study from Harvard University showed that with just 10 minutes a day of mindfulness, a simple non-denominational type of meditation for the modern-day person, their subjects (all novices to meditation) reported lower anxiety and less obtrusive thoughts. That means that just 10-20 minutes of daily meditation will help you start seeing changes within about 2 months. So joining into even ONE of the We Love Mass Meditation (WLMM)’s daily guided meditations will have positive benefits for you personally! Why MASS Meditation? The Global Benefits: Science has also been able to prove something else ancient mystics have always known: there exists a field of transcendental consciousness that is basic to creation and permeates all life everywhere. This phenomenon is now known to Physics as the ‘Field Effect’ and defined as an effect of ’coherence and positivity produced from the field of infinite correlation.’ Per physics, a field effect of consciousness implies an underlying connection between individuals in much the same way that physics has uncovered greater unity beneath the diversity of matter and energy fields. Since the late 1970’s, modern day science has proven time and again that with a large enough group in synchronized meditation, joining together energetically in this “field quality of consciousness, the extended ‘field-like’ effects are expressed in society.” Study after study has documented the brain changes in individuals who meditate. With “what we know now about mirror neurons, it should come as no surprise that when a bunch of us get together with an intent to create peace – we actually create it!” (4) Since global meditations began to be studied statistically and scientifically, it became clear they have helped to facilitate great change. Research teams that were monitoring the resonances occurring in the plasma waves constantly circling the earth in the ionosphere detected unusual spikes in Earth’s magnetic field on the very days that global meditations took place. (5). Studies of synchronized global meditations in the late 1970’s found reduced global crime rates, violence, and casualties during the times of their meditation by an average of 16%, a reduction in suicide rates and automobile accidents in the area where just 7,000 individuals were mediating together over a course of 3 weeks with all variables accounted for. In fact, there was a 72% reduction in terrorist activity during the times at which this group was meditation. (6) By the early 1980’s, so many studies confirmed the benefits of global meditation and its direct impact on everything around the world, even so far as to have the combined results of almost 50 studies published in the Journal of Crime and Justice in 1981. We have known of these benefits for decades, but it has taken this new century and entering the time we are in now, the time the people where I live now call Pachakuti, from the Quechua word “pacha” which means time and space or the world, and “kuti,” which means upheaval, revolution or great change. Pachakuti is the long predicted “world reversal.” This time has been predicted by every indigenous culture around the planet, the indigenous peoples of North America refer to it as the time of the Rainbow Warrior. Now our PachaMama (Mother Earth) has shifted and as we evolve with her, enough people around the world awaken to come together to create critical mass. We invite you to join in and BE part of the Change. It doesn’t matter whether you are a long-time meditator or a complete novice to the practice. WLMM’s Guided meditations make it easy for you. They are also available in many languages, and more languages will be made available as people request and assist with translations. Please remember, we are all volunteers, so are all of YOU. We welcome you and appreciate your effort. There are WLMM for every New Moon and Full Moon, meditations to help calm natural and man-made disasters, meditations to neutralize negative rituals, meditations to support the Light Forces in specific operations. If there is only ONE mass meditation you can join weekly, the most important is the Weekly Ascension Meditation, held on Sundays at 4 PM UTC/GMT. There is an event page on Facebook www.facebook.com/events/966344300172194 and the Guided Audio Meditation (regularly updated as new languages made available) here: https://goo.gl/GDK5Nz You can find a list of all WLMM Active Meditations where you can find YOUR Time Zone here: https://welovemassmeditation.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html and join the WLMM Forum here: welovemassmeditation.elementfx.com/home/welovem3/public_html/ Welcome! With so much Love & Light, Zeeva Amrita"

Hey guys! I have registered myself on the government vaccine wait list yesterday and today I got an sms saying that on wednesday I can already get my first shot. The thing is my family are all against this covid vaccine and no matter what explanation I give them they would always have an answer back even though I respect their decision and don't talk them into getting it. My mom said she will accept me for getting it but I still don't want to tell her as this will further cause more discussions. They are pitting me as if I am committing suicide....don't know why. How would you cope in this situation? Thanks all.

I think I have found the definitive answer to what is good/right and what is bad/wrong. And it applies to everything. This is actually obvious, but it's still nice to consciously be aware of it and understand it, because then you can consciously do a suffering calculation for every decision and opinion. And it should maximize the chance of making right decisions, having healthy opinions, and be a good person. Good/right is that which in total causes least amount of suffering for everyone involved. Bad/wrong is that which in total causes more suffering for everyone involved. The examples where this can be applied are endless since it applies to everything. You can make rational calculations about everything, what will result in least amount of total suffering? Although with some things it can be difficult to make the calculation. And you also have to see the suffering total thing in a long term time perspective, unfortunately the human intellect can't predict what effect a decision/action today will have in a million years, but this should at least be a start. Topics like: abortion. Gun control. Right wing vs left wing. Which countries are good and which are bad. Who is wrong and who is right when a couple is fighting. Humanitarian interventions with military. Should you quit your job or stay. Should you go to bed now or not. Euthanasia. Suicide. Break up with partner or not. Nuke Japan (in WW2) or not. Brush your teeth or not. Some things which are easy to calculate: abortion is good, since the fetus doesn't suffer at all from it, but the parents (and probably the child) escapes lots of suffering (ofc assuming that there's a good reason for the abortion.) Guns should be banned in USA. The suffering caused by everyone shooting everyone constantly every day 24/7 is much higher than the suffering caused by not owning a toy. Euthanasia. There should definitely be euthanasia in all countries. Suicide. From my point of view I should definitely kill myself. It would spare me a lot of suffering. There's no question about that. But since it would completely destroy the lives of my parents, the win for me not having to suffer is probably less than two lives getting completely destroyed. So the suffering total calculation tells me to not kill myself. USA nuking Japan in WW2. It was probably the right thing to do because if Japan hadn't surrendered then more lives would've been lost and it would had resulted in a larger suffering total. Right wing is wrong and left wing is right. Because I think right wing causes more suffering, because they are selfish etc. Suffering every day a tiny bit by brushing your teeth has a lower suffering total than not brushing your teeth and then your teeth rot away. So really, anything that causes least amount of suffering is good and right. Now let's in our lives rationally calculate our actions, decisions and opinions based on the suffering total formula.

collective suicide of all humanity = absolute good

Last night I had a weird dream. My parents own property that is accessed partly by two different woods roads. I dreamed that someone decided to sell lobster out of an outlet on one of the roads which was very strange. I was distrusting of him, like anyone that used to ever go in there. When I walked or ran there, I would listen for a vehicle, and if I heard one I would usually hide in the woods. Whether that's because that's normal behavior when you live in the middle of nowhere, or because my parents constantly told me to be careful and fueled my fears, I don't know. There was a person who had showed up to deliver something and the person had had quills like a porcupine, which was absolutely bizarre. Then later me and my mother were cleaning out really old stuff that was my Grandmothers? and there was this sewing box full of antique needles that were incredibly well made, like a lot of old tools. So of course, I could interpret this a lot of ways, but going along with what's on my mind, and the synchronicity of sewing needles and porcupine quills, the message might be, use what is past for creation, not protection. And that's exactly what I was sort of trying to see through with my Grandmother. She was quite feminine, loved beautiful things, loved crafts, loved making things, and yet, much of the time was miserable, and there are multiple reasons why I get compared with her. So... this reminds me of something, maybe I shouldn't go here. If you're female, being an artist is the occupation that puts you at the highest risk for suicide. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1096882/working-female-suicide-rate-by-detailed-occupation-group-us/ There's some correlation with creativity and depression, and I think, I know it's spiritual awakening related. I think there's a major misunderstanding of society here. A creative woman is born with incredible gifts, gifts that the world needs most right now, but because they are exactly what the world needs most right now, they WILL be devalued and laughed at, and part of her gifts are a sort of vulnerability and fragility, that isn't what it seems. She's like the mouse in the Gruffalo book. (I really wish @remember hadn't been banned, who gave me this insight into the meaning of that book, but there's another example of devaluing the feminine that's stuck in my craw). She herself CREATES a more powerful monster than the predictors, and she TOO must out-wile the monster she herself created to just happily enjoy eating a nut at the end of the book. Ok wow. This went deeper and more to the heart of things than I was thinking it would. Thinking it would? Really? If she herself starts to believe this perspective too, that she is not worth much, that she is weak, that she is prey, she may begin to feel that she is worthless too. And she IS prey, prey to (pray to!) a bigger monster than the ones initially placed in the forest, but to the monster of her own creation. What the world needs most, is for you to know and feel your own worth, no matter who you are, no matter what gifts you have. It doesn't matter what society is like, it doesn't matter what the world is like, all that matters is my own alignment with me. My Grandmother gave me the tools for creation, and she gave me the clarity that comes from contrast on how to use them in a way that is aligned with Self.

You create your own purpose and values and meaning (or you don't) while being aware that you are creating it (making it up). That is if you are an existential nihilist. If you are an ordinary person.. You borrow the meaning from religions and or an outside authority that you don't question (because you are not conscious enough to question your beliefs). For a nihilist.. there is no "objective" meaning flying around and that's true. and a nihilist generally doesn’t try to find a subjective meaning to life either. But here is a contradiction.. if you are alive.. that means you have found some reason to live.. something that makes life preferable to death. It is impossible to (rationally) live without a reason because we all suffer and feel pain. Without any reason to endure suffering a rational person would commit suicide.. and cease to live. So as a nihilist.. you can recognise that there is no inherent meaning to life.. and any meaning we create for ourselves is an illusion and a distraction from the truth and finding a meaning in life still doesn’t change anything on an existential level; you will die.. cease to exist and forget everything. But for a nihilist to live.. they have to have some reason.. it might not be concrete or specific, it may be complex or they have decided just to live for the sake of it. Why should it matter if anything matters objectively anyway? Try to detach from the need for meaning.

If everything would be meaningless to somebody, the person would commit as suicide at this particular moment and be dead. Meaning a nihilist never existed. It is just an idea people give meaning towards.

@The_Truth_Seeker Please reconsider this post. Play "devil's" advocate. I'm not sure why you think @WaveInTheOcean 's answer was toxic, but I have to agree with them. Counter-intuitively suicide is highly selfish, and using spirituality is a fantastic way to hide that. Find it within yourself to enjoy what life has to offer, and stop trying to rationalize suicide. Hopefully once you open your eyes, you'll see how deep a hole your digging yourself in. Good luck my friend.

@The_Truth_Seeker I resonate with a lot of what you are saying. Human life seems ... very limited. But I strongly suspect killing yourself wont help. You might end up in a worse situation, or end up in some kind of hell-realm that you yourself have put in place as some sort of negative-reinforcement against suicide, but I'm just speculating, there's no way we can really know. In other words, there is no other way out. Enlightenment seems to be the only way out. So you want out? Start working towards this objective.

Thursday 25/03/2021 14:47 Some strange deja vu feelings. Depression flared up with a particular flavour that I recognise. Maybe it's the time I woke up, the healthy food I ate and I'm currently hungry, the warmer temperature outside. Why was I dragged into life with any of this I wonder? Why did any of this happen? Why were my senses of reality uprooted as far back as I can remember? Why was I ever brainwashed with Islam? Why did I ever get bliss from it? Why did I ever develop an existential depression? I just rewind this unfolding and all I see are dominos and inevitably, forced into a path and fate before I could comprehend what was even going on. None of it makes sense. And for no apparent reason, I just feel the strangest feelings I haven't felt in a long time. And when these particular feelings come back, it feels like some of my memory also returns to me. These feelings. These feelings are the old form of how my depression used to feel. In a sense it feels purer, but it feels more heavy and totalistic because of that. Now I remember why or what I ever used to be explicitly suicidal for, now that I at least temporarily have these dimensions of my emotion returned to me. In this particular moment, I feel like my old self and feeling. Which you would assume is good but what it does to me is just remind me how fragmented and discontinuous I am. All these images and memories, past versions of myself, it all feels like one crazy or one bad trip. My life feels like one crazy bad dream. Maybe because I desired it so I now, at least right now, feel these feelings I had lost or forgotten. But now I feel more anxiety and fear from it. This was the anxiety and fear I turned my back on, cauterised myself to and ran away from. This pain is intense but...I also feel happy on some level for feeling what I thought was lost. This anxiety and uncertainty is intense. My recovered dimensions of emotion may pass away now, but I hope not. Honestly speaking, I could die happy like this. I'm grateful that I have my old feelings and dimensions of emotion in this moment, even if it is in the form of anxiety, and this feels like a "me" I wouldn't mind dying as. I'll take it any day over my cauterised self. I feel back in time 2-3 years ago. Some point 1-2 years ago, I have a blackout in perception corresponding to my antidepressant shenanigans. I think I'm maybe starting to understand things a bit better. I ended up cauterising myself because I couldn't handle this intense anxiety. The cost of shoving down and repressing my anxiety was the loss of liveliness and sensitivity. A tragic shame really, but I understand it. In a tragic sense, I did a mini suicide to myself already. With this currently alert and aware brain, I can see why. All I'm at right now, in this particular moment, is a visit to my state back in time. Whether I stay here I don't know. The chains of the past are both important to understand but move on from. Having this experience now makes me the more weary to arrive or finish something, dont know what that something is. Weary to overcome these chains -- I feel the flavour of my original depression, like sent back in time. I feel like a time traveller almost, sent back in time to correct the mistakes I made. Maybe this was the reason I was subconsciously attracted to this song I would listen to over and over on repeat. It wasn't until just now that I don't think I realised what the English translation lyrics of the song even meant, even though I skimmed over it. But the idea just popped into my head randomly now. I read the lyrics translations but my brain never interpreted or put the right pieces together. https://bakemonogatari.fandom.com/wiki/Decent_Black I probably interpreted this correctly the first time I read it a while ago, but my brain just now reframed and regrouped what sentences I put together to fit what I feel. Now I'm reading it as "Let's find the answer, regrets and mistakes" rather than just finding the answer (and not finding the regret and mistake). -- This primal fear and anxiety I feel, my mistake was running away from it. Well, now I feel it. Boy is it hard to deal with though

This subject might be a bit harsh but I had to ask myself this question for years - why are we bound to save other people, even when they want to die (clinical death, suicide, etc) ? Moreover, as a medic/ nurse/ assistant - why are those people try to save their patients with all means even when there is evidence that by having a heart beating, the patient will be just in a vegetative state for more years to come and suffering. Also, this goes for the elderly who, by saving their lives, the rest might be just a nightmare. If I am GOD and by ending up this dream I go back to light then why won't you let me do it? NOTE: - I am not suicidal or depressed and I don't promote any self-harm behaviour - but I cannot find anyone to talk about this question with an open mind. Thanks Alex

I have been told by spiritual masters that the greatest wisdom and enlightenment is accessible not by seeking it but through a complete surrender of all hopes, ideas, beliefs and even the senses. I've been reflecting on the following quotes for the last 10 years to no avail: “Be content with what you have; rejoice in the way things are. When you realize there is nothing lacking, the whole world belongs to you” -Lao Tzu. Darryl Anka (Bashar) said, “There are many definitions regarding the word “surrender.” Many label this as a loss of some sort or a lack of control of some sort…and this is not the case. Surrender is actually the acceptance of your total self. It is not in that sense the forsaking of your total self as many of you have been led to believe through the definitions that your world has provided you with. Definitions such as those only serve to limit you. Surrender is the letting go of the concept of who you think you’re supposed to be and actually being who you are because who you are is unlimited possibilities. When you allow yourself to surrender all ideas, all hopes, then the physical reality which is only a mirror can then reflect those unlimited possibilities back to you.” “As long as your shallow worldly ambitions exist (aka: hopes, beliefs, attachments to traditions, the seeking of energy) the door will not open”- Lao Tzu. I just can't seem to realize what's the point of being alive if my participation in life is not needed. If everything is perfect as it is what's the point of evolution and learning or even spirituality? To simply sit and watch the trees until you run out of food and die - I don't understand it. How can I completely surrender and let go of goals and hopes but also seek to benefit humankind and develop myself? How can I surrender my expectations when I know that I am surrendering in order to transcend the ego - that's already a goal. What's the point of my true nature being unlimited possibilities if all desire to express myself is a distraction. If nothing is lacking then why am I not aware of my light, surely at least this awareness is lacking. I don't know something feels off with that last step that is required to penetrate the veil and directly experience truth. It's like you have to commit psychological suicide on the off-chance that something might come of it. But then that's already hope/belief so again back to square 1. At the very least I enjoy this world and want to play with it, I don't want to be some miserable yogi in a cave who renounced everything because some doctrine said something about it. What's the point of being human if all of our senses are an impediment to waking up. What's the point of this world, this life if its only purpose is to be an illusion, a prison for our minds. I am fucking tired of these games. I am so frustrated. I am tired of this burden and seeking this secret door that never opens...

@Alex bAlex And my condolences about your grandmother... On to our topic at hand. At the risk of sounding cynical, selling a bunch of crap to supposedly extend people's lives, playing on their fears surrounding death, makes an easy tidy profit. Besides that, as I think you already well understand the ego is The survival mechanism of the human condition. Ego wants to live. It's drive is to survive no matter what. I will add Life, God, wants to live, including through you, and this is where ego gets, and from some perspectives corrupts with selfish division, the idea from. In addition to all of that in Western civilization the moral underpinnings you are asking about come from the Christian Church as well as the foundations of Western medicine. Suicide in it's many forms (for honor, as punishment, in sympathy, for ritual sacrifice, and of course out of fear, and many more) and the putting to death of the elderly, disabled, and ill varied from ancient civilization to civilization, but such things often grossly failed to meet our modern standards of compassionate care. Before Christianity ruled our world religiously motivated ritual suicide and assisted suicide (willing human sacrifice) was not uncommon. Christianity came on the scene with a Lord and Savior God-man/apocalyptic prophet who's claim to fame was his sacrificial death and resurrection that rewards all his loyal followers with their own resurrection after death... in paradise as vastly improved versions of themselves none the less... Do you see how suicide and martyrdom may have been a concern for the Church? How does one build a successful powerful institution if all it's most dedicated adherents have an underlying drive to kill themselves or get themselves killed. Starting from it's origins and to this day the Church has preached and taught against suicide, including that it was an unforgivable mortal sin against God. "Secular" legal systems followed the lead of the Church. Suicide then would get you damned in the afterlife, your body disrespected, your family ostracized, all of yours and possibly all of your families property seized... and if your attempt was unsuccessful you could expect all of that plus being excommunicated and jailed. Any sort if assisted suicide and even medical personnel not doing everything they can to preserve life is also arguably against the Hippocratic Oath and by many is considered unethical. Unless medical personnel have been notified by you to the contrary, the default position is that they are obligated to do their best to save and preserve your life and they most certainly cannot purposely take it. This is changing to some extent. There is an increasing acceptance of euthanasia amongst doctors. I forget which ones, but consensual euthanasia is now legal in just a few states in the US. And as I said in another post, although it can have very serious consequences for the caregiver (prison, license loss, fines and civil suits) ending the extreme suffering of some in hospice is definitely an off-the-books practice. Lastly, since suicide is our topic I want to say I have personally known two people that have killed themselves and have seen first hand how it utterly wrecks, and I mean permanently destroys the lives of, their families and friends. I've also worked with suicidal children. Most people, and I would add especially young people, who say they want to kill themselves are actually just crying out for help. This is why we try to stop them and help them, because that is what they really want and need. People who actually want to kill themselves just do it with little to no warning or cry for help. If you are lucky they may leave you a nice note. If you are unlucky the note will not be so nice. In conclusion, kill your ego if you can, but not your Higher human Self even though your Absolute Self cannot be killed. Death is coming for your humanity very soon, likely much sooner than you think. Contemplate that often as it is healthy. Use this information to foster gratitude for what little life you have in this form and do the best you can with the gift Life has given you. Oh, last thing. This notion of peaceful death that you and others I've seen around here have is wishful thinking to a great extent. I have sat with many dying people. Dying is typically both physically and psychologically a hell beyond measure. The moment of death is often peaceful, like a weight has been lifted from the world, but the amount of suffering most go through in the dying process can be extreme. Much of it is self-inflicted. This is why it is good to contemplate and become comfortable with death. This is why this thread is valuable. My advice to all is be sure to die before you die as it will grant you a better life and a better death. What more could we ask for, lol

Thank you @universe & @Ryan R It really helped me to get more understanding on this subject. I wasn't aware of "Living WIll" so I will have to have a look at it. At the moment I am running in circles with suicide and free will/ determinism. I have to go deeper on the free will subject to understand it and then come back and analyse the suicide aspect of it before spiral into conception/abortions/ morality... A lot of great stuff around here. Thanks again

Let's answer this with a poem by Charles Bukowski: if it doesn't come bursting out of you in spite of everything, don't do it. unless it comes unasked out of your heart and your mind and your mouth and your gut, don't do it. if you have to sit for hours staring at your computer screen beatbox or hunched over your typewriter beatbox searching for words beats, don't do it. if you're doing it for money or fame, don't do it. if you're doing it because you want women in your bed, don't do it. if you have to sit there and rewritebeatbox it again and again, don't do it. if it's hard work just thinking about doing it, don't do it. if you're trying to write beatbox like somebody else, forget about it. if you have to wait for it to roar out of you, then wait patiently. if it never does roar out of you, do something else. if you first have to read beatbox it to your wife or your girlfriend or your boyfriend or your parents or to anybody at all, you're not ready. don't be like so many writers beatboxers, don't be like so many thousands of people who call themselves writers beatboxers, don't be dull and boring and pretentious, don't be consumed with self- love. the libraries of the world have yawned themselves to sleep over your kind. don't add to that. don't do it. unless it comes out of your soul like a rocket, unless being still would drive you to madness or suicide or murder, don't do it. unless the sun inside you is burning your gut, don't do it. when it is truly time, and if you have been chosen, it will do it by itself and it will keep on doing it until you die or it dies in you. there is no other way. and there never was.

I know exactly how you feel. Around 6 years ago I suffered from terrible anxiety. It was so bad that I thought my brain wouldn't be able to handle it and I will descend into madness, which of course only made me more afraid because I didn't want to go mad. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't work, I couldn't talk to people it was hell. At one point it got so bad that I was more afraid of the anxiety than of actually dying so I contemplated suicide to stop the fear. I think this is the moment when I slowly started to realize that this wasn't really about survival but about my mind trying to figure out what's the absolute worst thing that can happen so that I could give it permission to rest. So I kept getting better and better and producing horror movies in my head. What if this, what if that. But how do I know this, how do I know that. How can I trust my senses, how can I trust my thoughts, what to trust bla bla bla. Absolute paranoia... Suffice it to say that this period of my life left me with hardcore trauma that I am still recovering from (successfully). The good news is that the anxiety is gone completely and guess what I am still alive. I don't remember the exact journey I had to go through to solve this but I remember a few cornerstone events which dissolved the problem. 1. I started taking magnesium and ashwagandha (this doesn't address the cause of the problem but helps the brain calm down as you work through your issues - it really works) 2. I met this psychotherapist/spiritual teacher and I told him how I am completely uncertain of what's real and what's not and how I can't stop doubting everything and he told me this: "If you are going to doubt everything you should also doubt your doubting as well." This was the first Eureka moment I had. I had been so immersed in my doubting that I had become incapable of actually observing what I was doing in my mind. It was now doubting for doubting sake. I had convinced myself that just because I am capable of conceptualizing a doubt in my mind this must be somehow valuable, but this was no longer rooted in my direct experience of reality, it was just me creating horror movies in my mind. His advice was so powerful to me that I felt instant relief. 3. I realized that doubts are simply the byproducts of beliefs. Whenever we adopt a certain worldview that's not based on our direct and honest experience but on some belief system, doubt starts creeping in because deep down we know we have never experienced that particular information that we've put there and we become afraid that we might be delusional. As we start letting go of those core beliefs, the corresponding doubts fade away as well. You see doubts aren't really capable of proving the belief true, only experience is. Doubts are just alarms that something is "fishy" in our world view. At the time I was a big Buddhist nerd and I had filled my head with all kinds of beliefs about what reality is, what the senses are, what experience is, what the mind is yada yada yada, but it was all doctrine not experience but I was clinging to it because I had invested so much time researching it that I didn't want to let it go. One day I just got sick and tired of believing shit that wasn't in my experience and I started letting go of that whole nonsense. I decided that I am no longer interested in other people telling me what the world is, but instead I was interested in directly experiencing what the world is for myself through honest inquiry based on experience, not fantasies, concepts and belief systems. I completely let Buddhism go and released another layer of mental instability. 4. I decided I wanted to visit this spiritual master in India that I had resonated with, so I did. I went on a solo trip to India for 40 days. We did satsang every day except for weekends. It was a direct experience inquiry as you go method that allowed me to uncover the awareness behind the thoughts and feelings - something many people report to have discovered after long years of meditation. Essentially I experienced this facet of my mind that was always the same regarding of what else was happening - whether I was afraid, or depressed, whether I was happy or sad it didn't really matter, there was this "silent awareness" place in my mind where thoughts and emotions had no foothold. It wasn't nothingness either, it was simply awareness. And it provided massive relief for me because the experience of it was of something really healthy, really stable, really reliable as opposed to the volatile storm of doubts, fears and madness that the lower facets of mind were. I could go there whenever I wanted and knowing that I no longer had to be a slave of my thoughts this alone deleted a massive portion of my anxiety. Once I came back home from India my mom said I was a completely transformed person. And I knew it because I never had a panic attack since then, and trust me it wasn't for lack of problems in my life. 5. Transcendental meditation - A really simple technique that you do twice a day that allows you to release stress, restore a harmonious state of mind, and give yourself a break. This teaches you that you don't need a reason to give yourself permission to let go and relax which is one of the reasons why we are so attached to fear - the belief that we need something else to give us permission to let it go. Don't cling to logic, logic is just a tool. You are more than your logic you can give yourself permission to relax for no reason, don't diminish yourself to just one of your faculties. 6. Watch Sadhguru and Eckhart Tolle on YouTube, They are cool guys who will gently guide you to a more harmonious state of mind which transcends this fear based living. So to summarize - I am still capable of fear but I never have generalized anxiety or panic attacks anymore. The good healthy fear somehow knows when to come on its own and protect me when I need protection - it doesn't require me bringing it up through my thoughts. I am not too concerned with survival either because I am not even sure that's a thing to be honest. I have discovered higher dimensions of experience such as inspiration and purpose which have become more important to me than survival. Ironically enough I am not acting in any reckless or self-destructive ways at all. I am embracing harmony in everything that I do and that's way more effective than being afraid. Don't resist the fear, don't resist the anxiety allow yourself to feel the fully. If you are afraid you will die, don't resist it, don't try to hide from it or suppress it, just be afraid you will die and see what happens it just flows through you like a jolt of electricity and disappears into the nothingness it came from. You realize it was never substantial, just some radio noise your brain picks up and lets go. It's liberating in fact it even becomes exhilarating the fear of death is completely transmuted into a little bit of excitement that flows through you. If you are really stuck in madness right now, don't despair, no matter how bleak it seems it really is you causing it, no matter how much you want to believe that your situation in life justifies your suffering it's really you causing it. Keep at it and soon you will transcend the need to hurt yourself this way. And most importantly remember this: Just because you have a thought, doesn't mean you have to believe it. You are the master not the slave. Cheers and good luck.