Search the Community

@BornToBoil suicide is essentially in most cases a refusal to take the responsibility of living out your life through the karmic debts and spiritual lessons that beset you. Reincarnation can be validated in your direct experience if you have an experience of infinite consciousness and omniscience, which can be obtained through what Leo teaches. When you refuse to live out the circumstances of your karma, you end up reincarnating in very similar circumstances because the spiritual growth that was designed for you by God and Karma did not take place, so you're just kicking the can down the road. Why not live out your self actualized life purpose here and now? and then be ultimately liberated from reincarnation?

@Kundalini Cataclysm Nice. One can also contemplate, what is a death which is not a suicide? What is separate and comes to end, such that it’s end was not within it’s beginning all along? The seed was of the apple, the apple of the tree, the tree of the seed. ”What” dies, ”Who” dies, “I” dies, “you” dies. Awareness simply remains. Aware of these thoughts now, too. ”Seeds” and “trees” and “apples”, two. The eternal One, aware of “you”.

Oh man, I've been there. I can relate to suicidal ideation. I can't claim to have fully overcome it, but I did dive into it quite a bit. Here are some things that might help you: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-biggest-mistake-you-have-ever-seen-caused-by-ego/answer/Artem-Boytsov The source of this answer comes from this page: https://www.true-freedom.net/#Part_Ⅰ._Enlightenment. Much of the content of this page has been quite helpful to me already. This was actually created by fellow forum member @BipolarGrowth I believe. If not, sorry for misquoting. https://www.andrewholecek.com/suicide-from-a-buddhist-perspective/ https://www.andrewholecek.com/karmic-implications-of-suicide/ Also, assuming you haven't experienced death through spiritual practice and/or psychdelics etc., I suggest you try to admit to yourself that you actually have NO IDEA what really happens through and after death. Thus, you'd be changing a situation in which you at least theoretically have ways to get out of the deep hole you're currently in for total and utter uncertainty. That means ANYTHING could happen. Death could deliver you into a situation that is equally shitty as your current one, a better one or even a worse one. This unknowingness can be quite painful and terrifying in my experience, but admitting it has helped me quite a few times already. I hope any of the things I've posted can help you. You're not alone in this mate.

I don't think there is anything right or wrong with it, and I don't think that saying it's wrong as a way to coherce someone to not commit suicide is the best or most loving way to do so. I'd say to a person who wants to do it "Ok, I love such that you're free to do it and I can't necessarily stop you if you wanted to do it." But also that I think it's true that if the person did commit suicide, they'd feel deep regret since they might realize the love they've broken by losing life, reality, others, etc.. So it's almost like those saying to not commit suicide can only simply suggest it, perhaps from empathic knowledge that the person will regret it. And that if a person doesn't want the other to commit suicide from hurt about missing that person, that that could be selfishness on their part, but perhaps also love as well, but that perhaps the most loving way to interact and respect a person who wants to commit suicide is to try to not impose your own desires on them since they may then feel trapped and not free, but that the best way may be to simply suggest in a way indicating you're not trying to manipulate them, but simply trying to help them see if they really want to or not and that they may really regret the decision. I don't know at all about this as I've not really thought about it. But I think for me I see truth in these values of showing love to others by not imposing your will on them, even in these types of situations, and that that may be the better way of helping them in the end since you're showing them unconditional love, which may be a more powerful force in helping them change their decision then trying to manipulate and force them to not commit suicide since you're selfishly not wanting them to die so you can avoid your own suffering from that (which I'm also not condemning, since I think that is also 100% understandable). Seems to be something there with truth.

Not the final outcome of life. Planning a date is not the same as planning a suicide. You can't simply stop eating and drinking water. Your survival instinct will kick in and you will go back to eating. Some people might have suicided by starvation, though it's just another method of suicide. It's still suicide.

@Preety_India but aren't people constantly deciding outcomes of their life with their every action? Also, what if I just stopped eating and drinking water and died? Would it still be a suicide?

@BornToBoil 2 things can potentially be wrong with suicide: That you hurt people who know you. And the possibility that life can get better, but that doesn't apply to everyone. Some souls are obnoxious and aren't loved by anyone. In my opinion people got it backwards. When a birth happens there should be mourning and when death happens there should be joy.

Why shouldn't a person kill themselves if they feel like it? They probably are not going to go to hell or something like that, so what reason there is for staying alive?

I would fucking love to be stuck in a social scene. Daygame? No bars or clubs? That would be paradise for me. Except for the masks and the social distancing. But isn't everyone receiving classes online? Dear @coca my advice to you is to give up. Just. Give. Up. In the sense of expecting to get laid anytime soon. Please don't give up on living. Keep living@coca once you give up everything is gonna be easier. I battled with depression from age 31 to 33. I thought about suicide a lot. I am glad I survived. PM me if you wanna talk Arc

I'm ready for death too, but not because of enlightenment stuff. The problem is that the body insists on surviving, even if you rationally know that suicide is the right thing to do. So life is a prison of suffering, and you don't even know how you got there. Life is so bizarre.

During the last half of 2020, I experienced a series of what you might call hybrid awakenings/manic episodes. The last half of that year was so chaotic, challenging, unbelievable, and amazing. I feel like I essentially experienced enough happiness and positive emotions for a lifetime if not multiple. In this way, I’m extremely satisfied with how my life has gone, but now I’m kind of at a point where I don’t see much reason to continue. It is quite clear that I will constantly be battling with my disorder for the rest of my life. I don’t see the point in going through that when life has already satisfied me. I have been suicidal in the past with my most serious depressive episode occurring at the end of last year which required hospitalization and a month off of work. I just don’t see suicide as a good option as I’ll be removing myself from the lives of my family and friends. This would be a selfish decision. I just wish I would die rather soon. I can’t bring myself to make the selfish decision on my own, so I’ve just been hoping life would do it for me. Has pursuing awakening made anyone else here ready to move on? I’m just tired of being human at this point.

99.999% people don't understand me beyond a surface level, not even my ex questionable mentor, so.... I'm pretty lost and I'm 'bad' with words in this state. I can't identify what I'm thinking even after a couple deep breaths..need help asap, already called some suicide hotline numbers like 3 times in a span of 2 days. Ye, I am apathy?

@charlie cho Yeah, just be aware that you love the goal for how it makes you feel now, not as a hope for future salvation dependent upon the success of it. Funny how when we are in a funk and can't see clearly we interpret seeing through the illusion and suffering of self as a desire to kill ourselves. ? I know you mean it as a joke here, but what you said is profound. Who wants to kill who? It's the duality, the split, the self judging the self as if there were TWO selves that you want to dissolve, or heal. Healing is complete dissolution of a problem. The desire to heal ourselves and the desire to get rid of ourselves are the same... BUT feel and are interpreted very differently depending on how off track we are from the actual Love and healing that we really are. There already aren't two, so how can we possible judge ourselves, or worry about ourselves? We can't and when we try it feels awful, because we've completely diverted from the truth of what we are. It's mysterious how a desire to heal beyond the kind of healing our mind recognizes as possible could come out as hypochondria. And a desire to heal the split between one's true self and one's thoughts of oneself can come out as the desire for suicide, sort of like in the example of Eckhart Tolle.

The word desire means something different to each person, just like the word love. While I don’t per se disagree, I don’t find it precise to say desire arises post awakening. There is ultimately nothing to desire, as the fuel of desire is actually holon activity of an a part unknowingly pursuing it’s own wholeness, which it believes is not already the actuality. In that specific regard, desire is delusional. Desire in a way is no more than a misinterpretation of self, love, creation, and role in it. How could some thing be desired in a dream when the “thing” is me, the dream? It ‘dies’ with the limiting misidentification as human and the paradigm of separate physical things. It was never ‘wrong’, it was natural, because, infinite being is absolutely innocent. I could not in good conscience ‘blame’ a thirty year old for desire anymore than I could a two month old. It’s natural, yet not justifiable, hence the discord, and shaming individuals is never the way, and is always the expression of one’s own internalizing & holding of shame. Law of attraction could be said to be the turning point. From desire of ‘things’ without, to the recognition of the wholeness, and the source of all ‘things’, within. Reactionary behaviors & choices, as well as victim mindsets, etc, which could be rationalized via desire are scrutinized when one is said to be attracting one’s own experience. This inevitably brings one to inspect one’s own intentions & desires. It could be said that the awakened one is fueled with desire in spreading the message, which I’d be fine with. But I think upon more scrutiny that experience is simply sharing this love, and one in doing so is truly empowered, with inspiration, passion and joy. When the lens of loa really is worn, when it is seen I create my suffering, and without it joy is the default, this is seen to be true for all others. Very eye opening in regard to world views, religions, wars, politics, etc. The entire landscape lens changes. How creating our dream reality works... (goes & gets pedestal). The “answer” at the end of the day, is God, which is to say the question too, is God. The ‘catch’ is of course, we’re God, and not-two. The word perhaps ain’t nobody tryin ta hear, is responsibility. The experience of reality prioritizes itself. Care for the body mind and then outward. One aligns, one get’s one head on straight, one abides by the heart, one get’s one’s immediate environment aligned, and one then does or doesn’t, continue creating one’s reality in the realization one is nondual, everyone, the whole show. This natural unfolding of experience for an individuation, is the exact same unfolding for the multiplicity, the whole, or collective, co-creating. My ‘radical idea’ to contribute here is most simple. A community such as this creates a website which has a democratically created outline of acceptable parameters for a company. Could be ceo makes X$ in comparison to the entry level $. Could be x% of environmental impact. Could entail timelines to reach these parameters. Could have a ‘on probation’ warning facet. Otherwise, it’d have simply two columns, companies which meet these parameters and we buy from them, and companies which don’t and we don’t. I believe companies would be interested to be in the ‘we do’ column. Competition is to fierce and too fast to sleep on it. People might like this, because people work for companies, and are in large part getting fucked over every which way they turn. But the majority has the power, always. We’re all creating this, always. It’s an idea that arose from your question, it’s not perfect, like any idea, it’s a contribution. For the record, I would never, ever, commit suicide, and there is no logical reason to utilize the middle name of someone in media, should I be murdered by them. Feelin the love, thanks. Soon. If you’re interested you can get notified when it’s done.

I just watched the Social Dillemna, a powerful documentary that discloses the manipulation and persuasion within the algorithms of Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, etc. The advice was to delete all social media so that we don't contribute to the real issues arising from such manipulation, such as; conspiracy theories, fake news, political divisiveness being at an all time high, distraction, wasting time, depression, suicide, and close mindedness. This may existential. But as a musician, I understand most bands and artists almost have to post and market on Instagram to get exposed enough. How else could we make a living online? Are there alternatives? What's your advice

Stop thinking so much. People think their way to suicide.

I think this post a little deliberately inflammatory, but my understanding at this point is that there is a sensate aspect of enlightenment that is reached through extreme meditative investigation. I don't fully understand this path as of yet, but it seems like it relates to eliminating the "separation" or "delay" between sensation and perceiver, until ultimately when the two become identical for all sensations experienced, the "rug is pulled from under" the separate inside self, as there is nowhere left for an identity to hide. This is so-called "permanent" enlightenment. (Also, do not underestimate the amount of work Frank Yang put into his achievement--some 7,000 hours of obsessive meditation. Daniel Ingram relates a similar effort. This method is HARD.) However, virtually all enlightenments have to do with a temporary or permanent falling away of the conceptual self, so it is conceivable that this sensate method is not the ONLY method which achieves this. For example, Ralston essentially advocates a kind of self deconstruction, while Spira is more about gradual dissolution through recognition of awareness, while Eckhart Tolle dropped his ego in place of suicide. 5-MeO eliminates the ego chemically (though usually temporarily), as do many other psychedelics. Glimpses seem to result from momentary "cessations" of ego. A glimpse is not discredited by being momentary, though it does unfortunately get relegated to "concept" as soon as it is in the past, technically putting it in belief territory. Still, a memory/belief of direct experience is probably the next best thing to an on-going direct experience. That being said, as Leo and others have indicated, I think the depth to which one can "awaken" can only be an infinity beyond all concept of infinity, if reality is in fact Absolutely Infinite.

@Dunnel I would love to talk to you, if you're open to it. It's wild what you're explaining here, I feel like you're in my head. I have been experiencing the same desperate need just to have no more experiences. No more desires. To be relieved from the need to maintain survival. I've been thinking really hard about why and what I can do, and just anything to stop me from thinking about suicide, which has gotten exhausting and repetitive. I am afraid that I don't have what it takes, and that I just can never develop into it. My ego is pissed off at not getting what it wants but also doesn't want to do any work to get any of it. But really its because I want to have all the love. I want to love and be loved. And I am afraid I never really will, and my life will be wasted. But what would it be like to look back from the death bed and not have any regrets?

So you ARE looking for solution!? Which is it. What do you mean, embracing life and not looking for solution, it doesn't add up. Nothing wrong with venting out when you are looking for how to create a situation, especially internally, to not need to vent even. Why do you think you are helpless? If you are not looking for a solution, how do you know there is not a solution? If you don't seek solutions, the only and only thing that will happen is depression, desperation, hatred towards everything and suicide. You are really worth more than that.

Well, fact is that other people would suffer very much if someone committs suicide, there's no way to get around it, even if you think that morally people have the right to kill themselves. I think they do morally have the right to kill themselves. But that it causes others to suffer immensely is a simple fact, so anyone who has even a bit empathy should put that in the calculation. One of the most common suicide methods is safe and painless when done properly. But since you aren't allowed to mention safe methods in forums.. people choose bad methods. NDE accounts can't be trusted as evidence. And when people like Neale Donald Walsch and other "gurus" claim something without any evidence.. It's not worth anything at all. His book could be used as toilet paper though.

I've always railed against the argument about causing suffering to others. It implies living purely for the feelings of others. Should somebody stay in an abusive relationship to avoid hurting the feelings of the partner? The 'it can get better' argument is very applicable to young people. Not so applicable to 80-year-olds. People in between need to decide where to draw the line. One thing to keep in mind is that many suicide attempts fail and can lead to permanent injury or being treated horribly by government institutions. Other methods may be barbaric or unethical. The only peaceful and effective methods require much forethought, which is good in a way as it prevents people from making rash decisions. Another consideration is the research of suicide-NDE studies. Even a quick search of NDERF will enable unbiased research into the topic. Often people find themselves in the 'void' for long periods, denied the great light that normally applies to people whose lives conclude conventionally. According to Neale Donald Walsch's Home with God book, individuals who complete suicide will be reborn, back in time, into the same lifetime to try again. While the story of the 'unhappy me' is of course very familiar and very strongly identified with, my advice is to find out if it is true before trying to kill the body as a solution. I am not speaking of meditation as a pain-management band-aid, but the way of Eckhart Tolle, the way of Nisargadatta Maharaj, the way of Ramana Maharshi. Die before you die.

There's 2 rational justifications I can think of: The suffering your suicide would cause people who know you. And the possibility that it can get better later in life. But it's of course not certain that it will get better. The chance of it getting better varies between cases. Finally some truth and honesty. Nice post ? I like it.

@Dunnel Suicide is not a solution. Be proactive about your situation. Reclaim your life. If you have OCD, talk to a doctor. Don't think about your OCD. It can reduce significantly if you accept it.. Suicide is easy. Be a hope for others. Live hard. You might think that nobody misses you. But millions of people miss you even if they don't know you Deep down we're all connected. I hope you take positive action. I've been suicidal all my life. It's not easy. I know it's not easy.. But I'm changing gradually one day at a time.

@Preety_Indiayeah so I have been suffering from OCD for most of my life. Way more uncouncious than you can imagine a normal person can be. Spent a huge chunk of my time just thinking as a matter of getting control. This would to an extent distract myself from the fact that I was depressed which is something that got more clearer when I started meditating. Ive tried for many years, but only recently has I been able to a lot more. And I have never been this miserable. This is a whole new level of terror. I can barely pay attention to what im consuming in terms of television, reading unless it actually matters to me. And now that all my activities is meaningless to me, its pretty hard to look forward to anything besides enlightnement which is inconceivable right now. I have a hard time actually feeling my emotions. It feels like im rather repressing them. Feels like im being controlled by a puppeteer. I dont really know what you can help me with. Im basically just bitching online so that people can feel sorry for me. I know that I should fix my diet, but I have huge gag problems. There are times when I can confront it and get more used to eating stuff that im dissgusted by, but other times I just get ego backlashes and go back to normal. Same goes for exersise. Been going back and forth like this for years. All I want now is peace and quiet. I dont give a shit about life purpose anymore. I basically just wanna go full eckhart and commit mental suicide. But If I cant do it mentally, might as well do it physically. I need some fire lit inside me that makes me wanna go and explore the world despite the meaninglesness of it all. Huge reason why havent yet done it is becasue I cant stand the fact that my family would have to go through my suicide. But that dosent really matter either when im dead. Im not that selfless.

Been meditating quite often now for a few months and the desire to off myself just keeps getting stronger and stronger. You could argue that I should take a break, but I cant even enjoy anything anymore. You could say im going through the dark night of the soul. All I do is distract myself from not killing myself, like browsing the internet all day. After I have meditated for like an hour the motivation to do it is even stronger. I know that this is the process of the whole spiritual work, but I dont even see a point for existence. Whenever I was happy, that didnt matter. It was actually a satisfying point of view. It was freedom. But now I almost need a reason for living or I dont see the purpose anymore. You guys are probably gonna reply with something that im already aware of, but usually when its get reminded im more motivated to get my shit togehter. Problem is though whenever I do try to get my shit together, I just crawl back like a fucking moron. Done this for years.