Search the Community

This is pantheism, all pagans doctrines are pantheistic. They take Being for God. All schools within Hinduism are essentially pantheistic. While Bible and Quran is monotheism, it says that Allah is separate from essence of life, separate from universe, from reality, from experience and separate from absolute infinity. In other words, He is separate and not-identical to that which is absolutely everything and which is boundless. Thats impossible since infinity is all there is, but thats the message of Quran, and core of God's providence - the impossible - Supremacy over absolutely everything. Allah is winner over absolute infinity. Islam is doctrine of non-identicalness while all Nondual metaphysics are based on identicalness. And Quran calls that 'essence of life and universe' - or God/Gods of pagans - Quran calls that as Iblis or Apollos or Diabolos. Devil. The Great Being. In other words Islam says that the essence or substance of reality is diabolic, it is devil itself. The great ITSELF or SELF of Nondual doctrines is Devil. For instance, there is hadith that says to diligently blow your nose after waking up in the morning, because during your sleep Devil has occupied large parts of your nose. Or there is hadith like that - Satan is living even inside your veins/blood flow. Or there is hadith - music is Satan's language. And as we know Being is Music. Someone said here that there is only music in reality. Or there is hadith - flute is forbidden coz its Satan's whistle. And as we know Krishna is playing on flute. Greek gods like Apollon is playing on flute. Essentially all Hindu and Greek and Egyptian etc. pantheon of gods are nothing but masks of Being. And all avatars and incarnations that came to restore dharma are also avatars of The Great Being. Because Iblis wants for eternal law of universe to be eternal forever. Coz Being's only purpose is to be and to be to infinity. While Abrahamism came as revolution against universal order. Thats why ISIS is fighting the global world order. While someone sweet like Dalai Lama wants to keep peace and status quo. Because dalai lama is agent of Being, of Universe, of Iblis. What does it mean? It means that Substance of Existence or Essence of Existence is infernal, its based on metaphysical error. And since all is one, and its total, thus all is devil. And Allah has intentionally made error, and then made human to fix that. The true purposes why is it so are beyond our understanding I guess. But why human call that Devil or essence of life as God? Because Devil is light, bliss, he is goodness, he is beauty, harmony, peace. Thats attributes of Being. Of Lucifer. Devil is GOOD itself. It is Idea of Good itself. So naturally when human achieves enlightenment and realises his union with oneness, he is in very good state of being. Everything seems good. And he naturally thinks that 'oh well, thats what God is all about. Something good as that cannot be evil, and it is definitely what we are here for, and it is what all the religious noise is all about. Ohh, I got it know, I am so happy I found God, now I can be sure that I am safe and on the side of truth'. Hehe, nope, the core of error is found in Quran - 'What you think is Good is actually Evil, and what you think is Evil is actually Good'. Meaning that Good is only there for seduction and as means for sacrifice, be it low kind of pleasure or highest kind of spiritual good. And as analogy - ISIS and Dalai Lama - ISIS is Evil itself in the eyes of masses, while Dalai Lama is the Goodness itself. But if we use Quranic logic then reality switches upside down. So we can't bridge different doctrines. Because they are not talking about same thing. While Sufis are also pantheists, mystical path is always pantheistic. So we can't unite all paths within one religion either coz they are not talking about same thing. Christianity is same to Islam in its core, but many latest mystics, saints, theologians, priests, monks, many fallen into idea of good trap and have based their teachings on 'God is Good' idea. Idea of Good is the strongest and trickiest and the main hook through which Devil catches us in his warm hands. Not to see such obvious and mutually exclusive contradictions while comparing Quran with Nondual doctrines is a sign that there is imperative of nonduality here, there is desire to make everything to fit into comfortable nondual bias. Clearly scriptures are saying different things and contradicting each other to large extent, why not to notice that striking difference and whats the source of this strange idea of uniting everything under the same paradigm? thats a question that needs answer.

Does God have a unique vibration? Just like an object or person would have a vibration that you can tune into and do energy work with. If I want to know God, and maybe psychedelics aren't the best choice for me, is meditation and Kundalini work enough to get me there to know God without taking 20 years? I already have had a Kundalini awakening and experience expansive bliss at times. So my chakras are open. I equate experiencing God with experiencing nonduality.

When I'm meditating, there will be a point where there's an increase in energy, and it knocks me out. On the other side it feels like I'm beside myself and not myself. There is a connection to other things that I can feel. It is euphoric. But I only stay in that state for a few seconds before I snap out of it. In that state, I am hypersensitive even to my dog's fur brushing up against me which can make me nearly jump. Is this a state of nonduality? I don't remember much when I come back from it, but it feels like home. I notice I have no thoughts of my own in that state. I am just observing.

@IndigoGeminiWolf For me, visuals are distracting. I much prefer headspace without visuals. You may want to try another psychedelic with less visuals. For example, 5-meo has no visuals and is very nondual for most people. Shrooms and LSD can work to, yet they can have all sorts of extra storylines. Ime, 5-meo is the clearest. These thoughts are just based on my experience and observations: it seems humans (including me) are conditioned to perceive in duality and it takes work to decondition this into nonduality. Imagine only seeing one side of a coin your entire life and then learning there is another side of the coin. Glimpses of that other side is a huge awakening. Seeing and experience the other side of the coin (nonduality) can give contrast to the first side (duality). I think this is an important stage. Then, we can realize nonduality and duality are two sides of the same coin. I would de-emphasize ideas that nondual experiences should be dramatic - like flopping around like a fish in a jungle. They can certainly be dramatic, yet they can also seem simple and obvious. I would also balance the idea that nondual experiences are something to work toward with nondual experiences are Now. Ime, a balance between both are important. If someone becomes to future oriented, they will miss out on Now (in which all nondual experiences occur). You have likely already have had forms of nondual experiences. . . . Have you ever been in "the flow" while playing a sport, musical instrument or creating art? A "flow" in which time and "me" dissolved and there was simply pure presence of the moment? Have you ever had a moment of such love that there was no "me" and the "other"? There was simply love? Have you ever been awestruck by the beauty of nature that "you" and time stopped for a moment and there was simply awe and awareness of what is? . . . These are all forms on nondual experiences that most people have brief glimpses of, yet then quickly "snap out of it". They might be like "whoa, what was that?". Perhaps they dismiss it and get back into story mode. . . "Wow, I was in the flow! But I should have passed the ball". "Whoa, was that a moment of love? I wonder if she felt it too? What if only I felt it? What if I lose it?". "Wow, the Grand Canyon is amazing! I need to get a good picture to post on Instagram". . . Notice that each nondual glimpse is brief and the personal "character" quickly returns back to the conditioned dual state. . . A key is to recognize nondual glimpses you already have. Become aware of them (without intellectualizating about it). Over time, these nondual glimpses can extend. Ime at early stages, I would say thinking was the #1 block toward nondual experiences. Thoughts themselves appear Now just like everything else. Yet thoughts are alluring and they can mesmerize a person into a dualitstic illusion. Nearly all me early nondual experiences were nonverbal and there was not engagement with thinking. There may have been some stray thoughts, but they didn't have the power of engagement. A few thoughts, would pass by, similar to the sound of bird chirps passing by. . . Then I wold "snap back" into thinking mode. . .

@Serotoninluv I did DMT and Ayahuasca about 15-20 times in the past. I smoked the DMT and drank the Ayahuasca. Never experienced nonduality I don't think. It didn't feel like love. It was bizarre and I was trying not to give into astonishment. I did go into hyperspace though, but I still didn't feel oneness or anything. I even took THH sublingually before smoking the DMT to amplify its effects, and still didn't have a nondual experience. Though it was powerful.

There is nothing wrong with these types of inquiry and conceptualization. It has practical value in some contexts. To me, it seems like you are trying to figure out Truth. I think that is a worthy endeavor and that curiosity is wonderful. Yet be aware that you are playing with truth tools within Truth. To me, it seems like you are trying to figure things out through speculation, rather than trying to explain ineffible direct experience. Trying to explain Truth, nonduality, Now, pointlessness, Nowhere etc. is really awkward and even silly at times. Imagine trying to explain the experience of sight to a blind person. We would fumble around saying things like "seeing is kinda like this, but not really. Or maybe it's like this, but that isn't quite right either - and could be misinterpreted". It would be awkward and humbling trying to describe sight to a blind person with limited words. It could also be frustrating and heart-breaking because it's impossible to do. It's not a philosophical intellectual thing. The best way to understand sight is to see. Being a highly curious abstract thinker can be a great thing. Yet it can also be a hindrance when trying to understand the ineffable. Such a person builds constructs for all the pointers and they can no longer be blindsided toward an awakening. Common pointers such as "ISness, construction, deconstruction, Now, pointers, Truth, Absolute, Everything, Nothing, Mu, contextualization" have all been contextualized into concepts and lose their effectiveness as pointers. There is no longer any pointer I can give you. It seems like you have contextualized them all into theory. If I tried use "ISness" as a pointer, my prediction is that you would enter into a theoretical word of what "ISness" is - due to hours and hours of theorizing about "ISness". I don't know of any pointers that you haven't theorized away. Imagine trying to show someone that the image in the mirror is them. We point to the mirror and say "Look! That is you!" and the person responds "How can your arm be me?" and then starts theorizing about the essence of an arm. This person will not have a realization that is much deeper than the pointer/arm". When I say "The fineness within pointless being does not seek to create points." It would be like a person recognizing themself in the mirror. The pointer (arm) doesn't matter anymore. The person has realized this truth. The pointer (arm) has now become pointless. . . Do you want to know the ineffable essence of pointless truth, or do you want to create elaborate theories about what pointlessness, beingness, illusions etc. are? Back to your original point: notice how you are fine with the pointlessness of traglof fenglit hovjin. Now contrast this with the

Leo's done a video on Zen's ten oxherding pictures which describe the levels form the Zen Buddhist point of view. The first stages are In Search Of The Bull, and Discovering The Footprints. It's symbolic of course, but we first get glimpses of the absolute nonduality while living in duality most of the time. Thinking may stop temporarily, or you notice the gaps between thoughts, or maybe thought is seen as part of the whole unity. It depends, you don't need to have a fixed idea about what will happen.

The lowest level of nonduality is duality. It is also the highest because the path goes full-circle.

OHHH! It's the morning of 9/11! I'm channeling Love through the energy of American patriotism. Nonduality is weird shit.

@Aakash @Aakash Any suggestions for the best nonduality/enlightement books? Best beginner books? Best fundamental books? Like how "How to influence people dale carnegie" is key for social skills

We agree there. And: I've been there. With and without psychedelics, I have these moments of flow where it's not really me speaking, but the words deeply resonate. Moderate doses of psilocybin or LSD cause me to spontaneously start talking about nonduality and raving about infinite love and the illusion of dualities to whomever is with me at that moment. If I write that down as the words of God, it is relatively harmless because I don't have a large radically-openminded audience adoring me. If Leo does it, he is being irresponsible in my opinion, and should emphasize that it is a trip report to avoid inviting new religious dogma, cult dynamics and people beating each other over the head with it because they misunderstand it as holy words. Otherwise where are we headed? A cult with Leo as a medium, an oracle channeling Infinite Intelligence through squirting potions up his butt. I'm being crass to paint a picture, I mean no disrespect. If it turns out that way, that would be funny though.

A few thoughts on my experience: 1) Many deep insights are remarkable at first, yet after a while seems pretty obvious. The paranormal is remarkable at first, yet then becomes normal. 2) A deep / expansive experience gets re-contextualized into a puny human brain. A human mind can't capture it all. The mind tries to "make sense of it" and in doing so it becomes condensed and a lot is lost. Imagine being omniscient and returning to human. That would fry a human brain. 3) Once the the direct experience is contextualized, it becomes an "experience", a "memory". It's not just with psychedelics. Imagine the first time having sex, scuba diving or sky diving. At the time., it is mind-body amazing - perhaps for days afterwards. Yet then it becomes a memory/experience and that naive excitement of the first time dwindles. Yet, it can become embodied and mature. For example, on one 5-meo trip all of reality was deconstructed to Mu and then fully reconstructed. This was mind-blowing at the time. I remember pacing around my house yelling "That just happened! That just happened!". It was so far beyond anything imaginable it was like I had to reinforce to myself it actually happened. When I reflect on it now, I don't have that same amazement - yet it was extremely profound. It has altered the way I relate to reality, duality, nonduality, relative and absolute. I can never unsee it. When I'm with someone, I can tell if they have been to the null void. This summer I was with a high level buddhist monk who had much more knowledge and meditative experience than I. Yet I knew he hadn't gone the whole way to Nothing in direct experience. To me, it's simple and obvious now. Yet at the time of realization, I was shaken up for about a week and my whole reality was transformed.

It just happened that I developed schizophrenia from taking DMT too many times. The high consciousness state wasn't on drugs though. I'm now on psych meds so I don't experience the high consciousness states anymore really. But I'm starting to explore nonduality and enlightenment, so I am coming back as my Kundalini is awakening. Here is one video. It's over 7 hours. I've only watched part of it.

Im reading a really good book about love and nonduality I can recommend it to you if you want. Everything is love because without any judgement/resistance(ego) everything is allowed to be exactly just how it is. Thats true unconditional love. But consider this, that doesnt mean we should stop trying to prevent suffering in the world and just accept everything as it is without action when we have the power to improve things. The things we perceive as evil stem from judgement/resistance. Yet that is too just a a very limited low consciousness form of love.

Easter egg in a dream last night, Cinderella's pumpkin carriage. All these stories and myths point to nonduality and with crazy synchronicity sprinkled throughout them. Do we realize how pagan our beloved stories are? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinderella Life is stranger than fiction. Life imitates art. "One day the gentleman visits a fair, promising his stepdaughters gifts of luxury. The eldest asks for beautiful dresses, while the younger for pearls and diamonds. His own daughter merely begs for the first twig to knock his hat off on the way. The gentleman goes on his way, and acquires presents for his stepdaughters. While passing a forest he gets a hazel twig, and gives it to his daughter. She plants the twig over her mother's grave, waters it with her tears and over the years, it grows into a glowing hazel tree. The girl prays under it three times a day, and a white bird always comes to her as she prays. She tells her wishes to the bird, and every time the bird throws down to her what she has wished for." To read later. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/41/41-h/41-h.htm

So... I've been having some insights recently while reading the Cook-Greuter 9 stages of ego development. I like to think a lot about why some people have a tough time grappling with these complex ideas that are shared about consciousness and expanding perspectives. I believed that some people don't have the necessary 'hardware' in their brain that allows them to move up spiral stages. This idea that some people are 'too stupid' to grasp higher consciousness ways of thinking like systemic and integral thinking in stage Yellow and beyond. But recently I've been intuiting that the primary problem of course is a lack of consciousness and access to higher-elevation perspectives. So my question is... are people bottlenecked in their ego-development by their mental "hardware" OR if we took someone who has a healthy brain and guided them up the ego development stages ... their entire meaning making system would be rewired as a result of expanded awareness. I realize my question has hints of the materialism and the belief that the cognitive functions of a person can be bottlenecked by their brain . Basically, if we took a normal person (like my mom) who has trouble grasping these complex topics, (like spiral dynamics and nonduality and such...) and gradually facilitated her movement up the spiral stages... in 10 years, she would be able to understand spiral dynamics and nonduality and stuff. I'm just trying to see if this belief that human growth is bottlenecked by their "brain type" or something is a valid belief in the case of a person who does not have any specific mental challenges (like autism). It seems like people with contracted sense of self appear more stupid and less nuanced in their thinking? Can an adult be brought from an earlier stage to a later stage? I guess it all depends on the person... Thoughts?

On a recent Consciousness work, there are several insights that I'm still integrating. Would love to share and see if anyone else had a similar experience. I don't know if the intellectual analysis would provide any help, because it's something that has to be viscerally experienced, and I can barely even know how to use words to explain them. 1) In this "saturated" dimension that's inscribable, it's being recognized that it's a space that's visited before many many times. The experience is hyper-realistic, but almost immediately forgotten when returned to a normal level of consciousness. Time and Space are interconnected and navigatable in this dimension, there were experiences of multiple possibilities of my characters, almost anything scenario that can be imagined resides in one of those Time and Space nexus points. This dimension extends infinitely, where I could see Time-space points that my character Michael doesn't occupy or exist. I was overwhelmed by all the possibilities of my current lifetime that was shown, all the time-space nexus are interconnected and influenced every other point. I was immediately extremely grateful to be living in this one because some of the other lifetimes that are currently going on showed me doing stupid things that hurt myself and deeply sadden people around me whom I love. The whole dimension is only ONE thing doing its own thing, there's no other room to fit in anything else, it's complete and full. Whatever can happen is happening here now and eternally. It's not an easy space to be in because the information is just too much to handle, it's like an ocean of possibilities that is ebbing and flowing, stretching and contracting. This dimension goes on forever and ever, with no end in time and space, fear arises since so many experiences were lived through at the same time. 2) One of the realizations that I derived from the experience is that I'm already dead, that reality of me no longer here in this human form already exists. I living my life now is like reliving a vivid memory or having a virtual reality machine permanently implanted. It's also like a choose-an-adventure kind of deal that choices made now will lead to different outcomes, but all possible scenarios are already here, I'm just navigating one of the possible paths in this lifetime that I'm aware of. 3) How much we still don't know as human and how vast infinite is the most humbling realization. Philosophy and Science invest so much into knowing things, but the knowledge is tiny that it will be no surprised at all whatever we concluded now as truth and real in human understanding can be completely false. All we can know is an abstraction that is understandable to us based on the tools that are available for us. 4) There is no space in normal consciousness either, everything is touching everything else with no space in-between, including all perceptions, like sound and sights and feelings. There's just one thing here and it's completely saturating everything with no room left. Space is another abstraction created to make sense of things. We're intimately sticking to everything else. 5) I was also experiencing other people in my life in that infinite dimension too. I could feel their suffering which makes me super compassionate and wants to be nicer to others. Hurting others in a sense is hurting myself. This is an overwhelming realization that I have to willfully ignore at times because the responsibility is too much. Radical forgiveness in this reality is important. I have to constantly forgive and let go, and can only move forward to make better choices. 6) Everything is perfect balance too, it's ultimate nonduality. Anything that can exist, only exist because of duality, which makes it nondual. Anytime I want to control one aspect of anything, I lose control instantly because my action, even a single thought, shifts everything else. There are still many minor nuances in this recent Consciousness work than what is mentioned. I appreciate anyone sharing a similar experience as it is. Human intellect is important, but I feel that's relatively insignificant in consciousness work. Imagination, feelings, and intuition seem to be more appropriate in understanding these experience. It's humbling to me, and I'm utterly grateful to still have the training wheels on living in this reality.

Well said. Problem is that in that first realm - nonduality (everything is at the same level of unimportance) we are only when we are in front of our computers, philosophizing or tripping. But when we are asked to do something tangible - transfer our life savings, drive without seating belts in traffic then everything becomes real - and there are dualities in levels of importance. And with that all this bullshitting about transcending survival goes out the window.

Ive used salvia about 5 times. Salvia is extremely powerful at moderate-high doses in my experience. You will completely forget that you even took a psychedelic at all. One of my trips shot me into outer space and I was floating through the void of space in a mine cart completely lost and unaware I had taken anything. I remember these huge mirrors getting closer and closer to me and looking into them I was looking into different parts of my life happening. I believe in the beginning of the trip there was a profound nondual ego death but I don't remember. Also, my trip was much more trippy than that. Overall I wouldn't recommend using this while on the path. This will just provide you with trippy content that wont get you any closer to seeing nonduality in ordinary life. You are 1000x better off self inquiring and being mindfull throughout the day or using lsd/ shrooms to get a better glimpse of the ox. I equate taking salvia with getting ready to jump off a plane or getting ready to hop on a bull. It gets very intense in a matter of about 3 seconds after that exhale.

I saw this video in my recommended. Pretty crazy story to say the least. From my experience, seeing the nondual in reality doesn't make reality dull and not worth experiencing as this guy had happen to him. From a nondual perspective, reality is still enjoyable and you are still able to distinguish differences. Life still has its ups and its downs but you are not limited or identify with any single piece of reality. This is not enlightenment. Checkout the video called "The Egg" on youtube. Its #1 on trending on youtube right now. It has some hints of truth in it and some of the implications of nonduality in it.

Sufi's do get nonduality, just as mysitcal christians,japanese zen,buddhists and hindus (atman) do I still don't get why don't they leave their cult after it, i guess it's preference cherry pick of why not? As you can see in their poetry, there is some evidence of them getting it, unless if they use it an excuse of art and are not being too serious about it, islam is generally pretty hardcore or rather should i say extremists are. Tear down the mosque, the temple, Destroy whatever you please. but don't kill a human heart for that is where god resides ~ bulleh shah Look into yourself - You have learnt so much, read a thousand books, have you ever read your self? You have gone to mosques and temples, Have you ever visited your soul? You have reached into skies, but you have failed to reach, what's in your heart. ~ bulleh shah Define and narrow me, you starve yourself of yourself Nail me down in a box of cold worlds, that box is your coffin. I do not know who I am. I am in astounding lucid confusion. I am not a christian, I am not a jew, I am not a zoroastrian, And I am not even a muslim. Not Christian or Jew or Muslim, not Hindu,Buddhist, Sufi, or Zen. Not any religion or cultural system. I do not belong to the land, or any known or unknown sea. Nature cannot own or claim me, nor can heaven, Nor can china or bulgaria, I am not from the east or the west, not out of the ocean or up from the ground, not natural or ethereal, not composed of elements at all. I do not exist, am not an entity in this world or the next, did not descend from Adam and Eve or any origin story. My birthplace is placelessness, My sign is to have and give no sign, You say you see my mouth,ears,nose --- they are not mine. I am the life of life I am the cat, this stone, no one. I have thrown duality away like an old dishrag. I see and know all times and worlds, As one, one, always one. So what do i have to do to get you to admit who is speaking? Admit it and change everything! This is your own voice echoing off the walls of God. I belong to the beloved, have seen the two worlds as one, one, Always one. ~Rumi

coz Islam is about fighting Being which is equal to Satan in Monotheism. Why we are in sleep-state? Why reality prevents you from waking up? Coz Being hates Consciosuness, they are enemies metaphysically. Its war, co-existence of two incompatible realities. Its a paradox that God's providential thought is about to solve, and to solve that human is created, its an instrument. But most of the time human gets fully absorbed by being and fails its task. Task of consciousness to fully triumph over being. For that True God sent instruction and political ideology because global society, global system is Being's projection or its shadow in this world. To fight that one need political ideology. While traditional spirituality (pantheism, monism, nonduality) says that Being is Supreme Being = God. Thats what Islam is against. To worship this Supreme Being because this Supreme Being even he has such attributes as light, beauty, goodness, wisdom, infinite, he is not True God. But the opposite, he is whats called Lucifer, Iblis, Satan. Greeks worshipped him as Zeus, Apollon, Iranians as Ahura Mazda, and all Hindus worship him in forms of Krishna, Vishnu, SHiva, Brahma, Ishvara etc. Christian clerics worship him as God-the-Father. Kabbalah takes him as god. and Egyptians worshipped him in many forms. 99% people of spiritual ppl of the past took him as god. He is nothing more than idol actually because Total Being itself is an Object.

Materialism is a belief that reality is fundamentally made of matter and that consciousness is an emergent property of this dead, mechanical system. It tends to dismiss subjective experience as unreal while glorifying objective facts that are discovered through rational thinking. More broadly speaking, it is within the paradigm of substance dualism with the added twist of over-emphasizing the material. We're speaking from substance monoism where the substance of reality is consciousness of various densities/frequencies. Both the 'subjective' and 'objective' are forms of consciousness, but chosen arbitrarily through the identification of the egoic mind. Even if this substance is one, that does not imply that things within it can't interact. If you put your hand on the wall, it stops. This is boundedness. This is not idle intellectualism devoid of hands-on experience. Nonduality can be spoken of, but it requires skill that you seem to dismiss. OF COURSE, it is spoken of from the point of view of the egoic mind. From the point of oneness, the only thing that can be said is 'meditate'.

This body is african american and these thoughts can't find any niggas in nonduality stuff. Is it like oppression type bullshit?

Yeah the little voice inside keeps telling me to be quiet and not to create ideas about nonduality etc. I think it's very tempting to believe in nonduality, very dangerous