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Which part is the assumption? Everyone does know of form, but the "foreground" (which is formless), is that nothingness or literally non-existent period? Because it can be experienced and hence isn't assumption, but I think it could be experienced differently. My experience was of separation from form, and what remained as nothingness back and away from form which I then was. But it had no elements of me as any me/I was an appearance of form; I just say me/I because it's the only way it makes sense... But I can see people might also say there IS no perceiver. My own experience, I might say perceiver is nothingness, perceived is impermanent nothingness-appearing-as-somethingness, and the two together is contained as a singular eternal unit. But some will say there is only one side of the two, rather than two sides of one coin... Both are nondual but it differs here and I wonder how people have experienced it themselves.

Today I was sitting in a bench, blissing myself out just because , when...it hit me. Of course! Of course meditation is not supposed to fix or help you reach your goals and desires, and attachments. Of course. Meditation is not about the self. Meditation works for you to just make sure that you are always you. With that all entails. Happiness, peace, nothingness, death, right here. And if apart from that, you want to pursue goals attachments and stuff you think you need, by all means, go for it, switch Off the Self, attach to the mind, and try to pilot the beast the best you can, but know that meditation won´t follow you there. You will be alone fighting the wolves with the other wolves. And that´s fine. Not saying that is bad. It is what it is. Attachment, desire, play, it´s Ok. We came here to play. But Meditation is not about playing the game. Don´t expect meditation to help you become rich, don´t expect it to help you pick-up chicks, don´t expect it to help you become even charismatic or fun. Meditation cares strictly about You. Nothing more, nothing less.

Green is not red. Blue is not yellow. Green is green. Red is red. Blue is blue. Yellow is yellow. It is simply that red, blue, green, and yellow are all nothingness and THAT is the Oneness. The Oneness is in the shared fundamental reality/nature of all that is. It is not accurate to say green is red, but accurate to say both green and red are not two, since they share the same reality which is this infinity; nothing, something; infinity. I have read trip reports which use the terms of the contrast and say that they are another contrast. But if you use the term of contrast (like the name of a color) you are instantly talking from within the relative domain, and relatively the comparison does not work. It only works from the Absolute domain and that is wordless or infinity. Green is infinity, red is infinity, but green is not red. And green is not the totality of infinity which includes all contrasts.

Sorry to have missed all the fun. I was away from my computer yesterday! I would like to add that “And this is just my perception”, that many people in these forums like to project they are somewhat enlightened, conscious, aware, and love tossing words like; Nothingness, Love, Duality, Somethingness, Compassion etc. at the end of a statement or argument, which seems they are using to double down and add to their identity as an expert in the field of spirituality. And yet, these very same people have no problem taking a side in the pro-vax party, or anti-vac party as if they know for a “FACT” that their “Truth” is right, and the other side/party is wrong! What ever happened to all the podcasts Leo made about critical thinking and having an open receptive mind etc. Even the North American Natives understood the pit falls of being engrossed with a belief, an identity, and with emotions. They understood that if you want to find a truth, you must walk in the opposite direction with an open mind and an open heart, IE walk a mile in another person’s moccasins before accepting a truth! On another note; what the hell does an opposing point of view have anything to do with “Collective Responsibility”? A collective society can only be healthy when all POVs are accept as having a seed of truth! Labelling “ALL” Antivaxxers as being selfish, self-centred, narcissistic, deplorable, mindless bottom feeders is a state of closed Mindedness at it’s best and worst! I have been experiencing this Earth reality for over sixty years, and believe me when I tell you that your ideas, beliefs, feelings, emotions and the truths that you cling to today will change drastically in twenty years from now! For most of you, your POV of today on this topic will be different tomorrow, why? Those that continue to do the work and question, discern, discriminate every thought, idea, image, belief, feeling and emotion with an open mind will expand their consciousness and begin to see the truths behind the truths, which are behind more truths! Your truth today, will not be your truth tomorrow! Again, I am not for or against the vaccine, and I have played my part! But I am really starting to question the validity and the mind set the pro-vax (sorry, it's just a label to make a point) that are blindly following the dogma of “Lets just keep on taking booster shots to combat every new Covid variant that shows up”! Let’s close the borders and lock our doors! Really, that’s the answer? That’s our collective responsibility? I am not saying it is wrong, but I do question the rabbit hole the pharmaceutical companies are trying to sell us! And so should You! Just sharing a few thoughts, ideas and beliefs!

Infinity/nothingness/noone/nobody/reality/ god/ this/ ...

@BipolarGrowth In it (at min 05:32) he also mentions that 360° degree lens thing, remember? That was mentioned in some post a while ago... The POV (that last remaining speck) implodes into nothingness. And then it's like you are 360° everywhere. He also talks about what happens to "the bubble". That's really tricky to talk about. The bubble vanishes once awareness is recognized to be even less limited and then it's as if that 360° lens really becomes infinite, like really. There isn't even any 360° lens left. No boundaries, in all directions. Everything flows through itself.

Hello It was more of an answer-than a question. We shouldn´t work on division, but on union.... I think there are always two ways we can choose to act from - if we are conscious about them. One is from love and the other one is from fear. If you act from fear - you project onto others, objectify others, deny your own history. If you go this way most people will use spirituality as an escape to face themselves. Killing the Ego and staying in the Void-Mode / Nothingness Mode. You can go through life, feel like you are the smartest guy everywhere and you basically have no real empathy, as you killed your capacity for empathy with your "Ego". If you act out of true love it´s a completely different story. You stop projecting, take responsibility and do your own shit. You basically consciously decide to take in more into your own identity. You decide to consciously choose to build an "Ego". First you fully identify with yourself, you accept your history (when in my life was I a culprit and victim? and you choose to embrace those perspectives you lived). By embracing those perspectives you grow your compassion. By feeling inside and embracing the times in life you were on the victim end in a relationship you grow your empathy, as you truly feel. By embracing the times your were the culprit and victimized others you learn to play the game of life in a non-culprit way. What we have now is a divided society. Both sides are simultaneously the culprits and the victims... @Carl-Richard I felt a strong sense of victim-mentality in your posts. This seems like a projection to me. you don´t even know me, but you use your mind and rationalization to explain why I think the way I think, without truly trying to understand where I come from. This kind of argument feels kinda hateful to me. You basically say: "I am not open to discuss anymore, because I already decided I know all your arguments because you are just an "anti-vaxxer". Which you can´t because no soul can be described with just the label "anti-vaxxer". But this is just my perspective - could be completely wrong Love you all, we are all on spaceship-earth together and I don´t think this trip will work out if we continue with this rivalrous dynamics - trying to tell other people how they should live their lives.

I find it perfectly logical and succinct. The nature of nothingness (nothing exists including boundaries or limitation) means that it must be infinite. To be infinite it must include all possibilities. All somethings are elements of these possibilities in infinity. Surely that is the case? It can be condensed in a few sentences like that?

I’m not sure if you are looking for an answer, or are just leaving an open end statement to the GODs, LOL.. IMHO, the answer to your question has many layers within consciousness. The higher more meta-answers are found within. The lower 3D Ego answers can be found with basic 101 personal Shadow work; which includes, and is not limited to: Observing and seriously discriminating one’s thoughts, ideas, images, beliefs, feelings/emotions! Basically, everyone needs to do their work, model and project that which they desire! It involves observing one’s attachments, expectations and how we blindly create and co-create our reality with “All-That-Is” (God), which, IMO, is one of the most important aspects and awakenings required before one can truly understand the concepts of Nothingness = Everythingness, which everyone here tosses around like they know what they are talking about, LOL. Anyone can take DMT trips (which is another viable tool in the tool box), but doing the “Work” is another level that sadly few want to pursue. Having said that, most people don’t want to spend their entire life doing the Work, so they seek Leaders and Gurus to do the work for them! Sadly, most leaders and Gurus are in a space of “spiritual Bypassing”, and usually don’t walk there talk! When you get to a certain level of consciousness, you begin to understand how the teacher and the answers are within. You begin to understand that you are the teacher and the answer! It took me almost twenty years to fully grasp and begin to embody that awareness. I’m a slow learner Lol…. Just sharing a few thoughts, ideas, beliefs and truths that work for ME. Take what resonates, and store the rest in the closet until it begins to sing to you!

@RMQualtrough I brought that up because some other user brought up that it's perspectival with why is there something rather than nothing. We got a subject, who's experiencing, an object. Subject-experience-object. 3 point perspective, therefore nothingness(point zero), somethings (objects point 1), and a conscious subject(I/you point 2), experiencing(point 3) other somethings(loop of points). So enlightenment has to contain in total 4 points of view that feedback loop.

Well there is a chain reaction, the original something was just a single dense point of energy (the big bang), everything after this is self propagating (like you describe, its just segments of something actualizing the potential of another something). Take everything in the Universe in this moment, and imagine deleting parts of it one by one, imagine doing this until you delete all of what exist in the universe in this moment. Not just materiality, but all the thoughts, feelings and ideas that exist too, think about the sheer complexity of all these in this one moment, delete them all. Now imagine doing this for all previous states in the universe all the way back to the moment after the big bang - a single dense point of energy before forming a soup of particles. Can you see how as you remove or delete things from the universe, you increase the potentiality of the universe, such that the moment after the big bang there was the most potential for how the universe might possibly manifest? Can you see how the proliferation of each moment was a reduction of overall possibility? The more things manifest in a certain way, the less their potential to manifest in another? Now delete the very first moment of the Universe, the single point of immense energy - nothing would be left, but your degree of potentiality has reached Infinity, in this state of Nothing, there is now nothing constraining or limiting it, not a single point of any energy at all; there is an Infinite amount of possibilities. This is Nothingness, this is Infinity^Infinity

There is no consciousness. There’s no one conscious. There’s not two, it’s One. What the experiencer is equates to nothingness. What they experience equates to nothingness. The ground of being is nothingness. Out of this arises what appears as somethingness, but it’s also nothingness appearing as somethingness. The entirety of the Universe is happening in a completely unified field. Reality is not being projected individually, It exists infinitely and is fully aware of itself. How does the idea of infinite nothingness know itself to be infinite nothingness? By appearing to end at infinite everythingness. There are no two consciousnesses, only infinite apparently-finite brains inside of infinite consciousness perceiving itself as itself. The unified field of consciousness exists without your human form, it does NOT rely on the human brain to exist...the human brain is not creating this, it’s always a singularity appearing in finite reflections. Two consciousness’ appear to exist, but it’s only One.

An old writing I had on this. It’d be a bit different now after a lot more insight but a lot of the fundamentals are similar. Solving the mind-body problem by understanding dreams When you go to sleep at night, you often find yourself in dreams. In these dreams, most people will still have a human body. In waking reality, there is an unsubstantiated claim or story given by people that consciousness is somehow generated by the brain. The experts aren’t so sure, or at least they don’t have any solid evidence. Look up the “hard problem of consciousness” to understand how this is unsubstantiated. In the dream, you typically do not think along the same lines. If you were to lucid dream, you would certainly not think you were the dream body or somehow generated by the brain in your dream head. I say you, but I need to clarify exactly who you are. You are consciousness. Consciousness is the only constant you can find in all realities. In the dream, you are literally everything perceived in the dream. It’s all generated by your consciousness. We understand fully that everything created in our dreams comes entirely from us and is an extension of us. Surprisingly enough, there’s no solid argument against this being exactly the same case in waking reality. Your brain, body, and mind are all generated by consciousness in the same fashion consciousness generates the entire reality in dreams. Beyond your mind, body, and brain, you as consciousness generate this entire reality. This entire reality IS consciousness and nothing else. It’s the same way in a dream; nothing is separate from you as consciousness. You as consciousness are the sole source for everything in the dream. No one thinks everyone in their dreams are conscious, separate entities once they’ve come back to the waking state. It’s the same in this reality. There’s absolutely no way you can actually be shown something outside of your consciousness. There will never ever be proof that other beings are conscious separately or outside of your consciousness. Even if you merged consciousness with another being in the waking state as a way to somehow prove the existence of another consciousness, guess what it would be? It would be fully engulfed in exactly one thing: you as consciousness or otherwise put your consciousness. You are the source of everything that exists in your consciousness, and your consciousness is the entirety of your universe and always will be. Nothing can ever exist outside of your consciousness. Existence relies completely on perception and consciousness to even be relevant. What is the difference between a fairytale land in a book, the black void people typically conceive of as nothingness or nonexistence, and a reality you imagine exists like heaven? They’re all just imagination. The only thing that’s real is what you can experience in this very moment. As soon as something exits consciousness, it exits existence. There’s no proof for something existing outside of consciousness, and there never will be because the most fundamental building block in any proof is, you guessed it, consciousness. Before using reason or logic or any other conceptual tool to prove something you use precisely one thing first: consciousness. Even if you and I are both conscious entities, we live in completely different “universes of consciousness.” Precisely, that is to say that one consciousness can never be shown another consciousness to exist without perceiving the other consciousness through the lens of the original consciousness. As soon as one consciousness comes into the other, the secondary consciousness immediately becomes an aspect of the primary consciousness. So if you were to completely merge your consciousness with mine, your consciousness would be held within my consciousness, and it would be the same for you if the process were done from your perspective. This is a clear mechanic of consciousness. We can never know if the person sitting across the lunch table from us is conscious. We can only assume one way or the other. Anything imagined to be separate from the perspective of the original consciousness will always just be one more aspect of the original consciousness. In this way, we are entirely alone as consciousness. We are not alone as human beings. There are plenty of humans walking around. You can clearly perceive that, but by the very nature of perception, consciousness cannot perceive another consciousness without it immediately becoming another aspect of itself. Consciousness cannot perceive another consciousness as some sort of separate thing. Once the “other” consciousness is viewed, it only exists as long as it is in contact with the primary consciousness - the point of perception, and it is only truly the primary consciousness the entire time. In this way, you can never truly share space with another consciousness. You cannot perceive another consciousness. Anything you perceive is just you. You are consciousness. Everything is you. Everything is consciousness. It will be this way for eternity. You as consciousness will likely visit innumerable dreamt up worlds that you’ve created. You’ll perceive yourself as some kind of avatar or character as far as we can tell. You’ll at first see all the rest of the characters in your dreamt up creation as separate from you, but in truth those dream characters are just as much you as your primary character is. They’re just characters held within consciousness. One, your primary character who you at first feel to live inside, simply exists in your consciousness more of the time than the others. Ultimately neither the other characters or your perceived primary character is you because you are the consciousness that permeates all aspects of the dream world including its laws of physics, characters, objects, and everything else. You aren’t the characters any more than you are the objects or the laws of motion that govern that reality. You are all aspects of that reality. You are all aspects of all realities. A reality can only exist within you. Something is only real to you if it is held within your consciousness. No realities exist outside of the one you are experiencing right now. This waking state planet Earth does not exist when you are in a dream. Your wife could tell you that the world still existed while you were asleep, but you have to see how this is exactly the same as if your dream wife told you the dream reality was there while you were asleep. It means nothing because you as consciousness were not there. That seems to be the pattern in what we can verify between both the waking state and dreams.

It's easily knowable that nothingness HAS to be infinite. The exact mechanism is very easy to understand. A boundary is something. If there's not something, there's no boundary, making nothing infinite, which must be infinite something (else it would be finite/limited if it did NOT appear as something); and that something creates boundary, if there wasn't something, there's no boundary, making nothing infinite, which- Etc etc to infinity. You see the pattern? Nothingness cannot exist without somethingness because the lack of something would necessitate something into being. There's just infinity. Outside, inside, nothing, something, up, down, left, right; all just infinity. That's all there is. Infinity. But that is precisely why... If there's no limit, no law, no boundary, there's infinity: If there's infinity, there must be something otherwise it wouldn't be infinite.

Here's something I wrote previously that can help you understand: something is the limitation and constraint of Nothing. something is contained within Nothingness. Nothingness is the metaphysical substrata of all of material reality and existence. It’s the substrate of something. To understand the above we have to abstract. You have to imagine a place before any material form exists, outside of any space or time, colours or shapes. This place is Infinity, as you will see Infinity and Nothingness are the same thing. Starting with something and removing the constraints and limits continuously you would inadvertently end up with Nothing. The process of removal will show you that as we progressively remove something’s limitations and constraints, we get closer and closer to Nothing. And that Nothing has the highest possible (infinite) potential to be anything or something. Nothingness is pure unconstrained, unconditioned, unlimited potentiality, or Absolute Infinity, or infinity^infinity. It contains all mathematical, logical or scientific infinities. Notice how math is a limit, qualifier or constraint of Nothing or a limit or constraint on Infinity. There are infinite possibilities of paintings, films, art, games, human interactions, buildings, music, thoughts and so on and so forth. There are infinite possibilities for an infinite number of things. All thanks to Nothingness. As soon as you have something, there is now an infinite amount of things that it isn’t. something is the negation of potentiality. If you ever wondered why something exists at all, it’s because within Absolute Infinity, there has to contain within itself, the negation of itself, and that negation is something. For any objection to the previous sentence; why does Nothingness have to contain the negation of itself? Well it has to by definition. Nothingness is Absolute Infinite potentiality, and the negation of itself is a possibility, because it contains all possible possibilities, it contains everything. Take a metaphysical Nothingness, now create anything from an electron, to an atom, to a finger. As soon as we can specify anything in any form of any scale whatsoever, there is now something, and an infinite amount of things it isn’t or can’t be. Something is a constraint, limitation and removal of possibilities. It is a constraint on Infinity or Nothing. Nothingness is actually the fabric of change. Because everythings true nature is Nothing. If its true nature was something, it could never become something else, it wouldn't be able to change. Nothingness is what allows form to mutate, grow, change and metamorphosize. It’s also the true nature of the person reading this.

This anti psychedelic propaganda is more damaging rather then doing people a service, especially in the metaphysics circles and spiritual circles. Psychedelics is and will always be an insane source of wisdom, insights , healing etc. There is nothing which even come close to a full breakthrough experience IMHO, there is no drug or meditation that is so out of this world as a breakthrough experience with psychedelics. Please note that I speak from my own experiences since that is the only measure i can compare with. But if you are immature in your mind and then goes on to do psychedelics you are setting yourself up for alot of self deception. Every practice is in a way necessary, they build on eachother, I dont understand this either or mentality that is destroying more then it is helpful imo. Psychedelics is mimicking death more or less, even science can show the decreased brain activity during a transcendental psychedelic experience. Also i want to add that why is enlightenment the only measure of truth? Why is it important? It is just an ego game if you think that an enlightened being somehow knows truth more then an philosopher/mystic which is illuminated by insights and direct awareness of GOD etc. Intuitive and discursive knowledge go hand in hand i would say, and they both together produce a wholeness to truth. Also i want to add, why would a silenced mind be more true then a contemplative mind which can deduce certain truths about the world we live in etc, that is a bias which plenty of spiritual people fall into. Balance is the key i would say. You can reach GOD using logic and reason as well, and let me tell you that you do not end up in some nihilistic emptiness/nothingness of the atheist philosophy's, which to me is completly illogical and unrational, you end up at the uncaused cause, completly unlimited in scope, closer then close, there is nothing in this world that is even remotely close to the majesty of GOD. But paradoxically, there is only GOD and nothing else, but GOD as it is in itself is not the limited human that we are at this particular moment, this is an creation.

Oh look... another mystical dick measuring contest so I say this in the most spiritual way possible, there is no dick because what you think you have is really just infinite absolute nothingness.

just came across a quote which I think may be useful for thinking about matter and nothingness, and where 'something comes from, or continues to exist: 'All matter is created out of some imperceptible substarum. This substratum is not accurately described as material, since it uniformly fills all space and is undetectable by any observation. In a sense it appears as nothingness _ immaterial, undetectable, and omnipresent. But it is a peculiar form of nothingness, out of which all matter is created' (Richard F Plzak, 'Paradox East and West'. This seems to me to capture the big question of where matter comes from initially. Any thoughts

You can find nothingness (in the presence of something) by being it. You can be made of nothingness at all, it's what you are and it can be known, because everything that is something is in front appearing to you... Even you are a something. The you I am trying to describe is nothingness.

Perceptions ARE nothingness. How can you know what somethingness is? How can you define what is and what isn't something? If I show you a big hairy dick, how do you know it's not nothing? How do you know it is something? Treat this question seriously. Stop taking somethingness for granted. It's not a given. You take for granted that you can accurately distinguish something from nothing, but this isn't true. This distinction you're making is not objective, it is arbitrary and biased.

You still don't get it. You don't have a reference point for what a "zero" or "empty" is. You are assuming these are objective things. They aren't. They are relative. ONENESS means you cannot have a reference point for anything, since all reference points are inside the ONENESS you're trying to define and therefore all definitions ultimately fail. There exists no objective definition for "something" nor "nothing". Therefore they literally collapse into an identity. Everything you think of as something, is simultaneously also nothing. Your mind is being too biased towards equating form with somethingness to realize this. What you're missing with this bias is that form IS nothing. You are stuck equating nothingness with formlessness, which is not the full picture. You have to realize that this is a bias which God does not share. This is a dumb human bias, so drop it.

Well, maybe, but who said logic is true? Just because you can't currently imagine nothingness, doesn't mean you won't ever be able to. How many things you could not imagine and then you came to experience? Plus, even if you can't ever imagine it at all, still doesn't mean something always existed. Consider that you didn't exist before your birth.

I don't know why. But I know that we can't know anything beyond perception. And perception is something, therefore it can't point to nothingness. The notion of "eternal universe" cannot be verified. And it could be the case that at some point in time, there was an actual nothing and then that void somehow/magically/IDK turned into something.

@mandyjw the god of nothingness ? It is zen primordial energy temple (dhyanalinga). I have a yantra and a picture to support and deepen my zen insight into the source of all things. It can be used to deepen ones meditation. I've even been in that temple so I have a strong etheric connection to it now. ? a video on dhyanalinga

Hello all, I've been processing this realization for the past 3 days and it's been a hell of a ride. To start off 3 days ago: There was a depression in the body and much sadness, I was contemplating the nature of thought further and began to break ground when I noticed that thought goes in circles yet can never actually be in the circle it creates if that makes sense. Suddenly It was realized that thought is infinity and its a strange loop with no center. No joke, I was borderline manic for 2 hours. Directly realizing infinity (sober btw) was so shocking and empowering I was like "this changes everything!". Infinity is like an orb of nothingness that cannot be touched by the world yet the world is actually what creates the orb of nothingness therefore emptiness and fullness are the same, and there is no orb or world. Infinity is not a quantitative thing, it's just infinite and complete and empty. For the past three days I've just been melting into this infinity. I see the chaotic energy of life, traffic, anger, pain, love, awesomeness and it's all infinity. Also came to the realization completely that there really is no body. Before there was the misunderstanding that there is a static body moving in the world, now there is no body. It is clear that no one goes anywhere, and that movement is an appearance so it's almost like a side scrolling video game where the character stays in the center at all times and doesn't actually go anywhere. This will be difficult to point to but it's like the body is always being manifested of itself right now this precise second, so there is no body as in a static being, it is always being manifested. Hard to point to because saying it's always manifested now still implies time. The quote "Wherever you are, there you are." makes sense now. (Not even sure if that's a quote or if I made it up lol). Just wanted to share ?.