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Leo is not responsible for this. Anyone putting blame on Leo and his work is being far too simplistic. Everyone is eventually responsible for what they do in life although they could be misled and brainwashed in this work. I believe some people in this forum engage in too much spiritual platitudes and using empty philosophical rhetoric to explain real life problems which can be very damaging and feel like gaslighting. Not saying that this is responsible for the suicide, yet brainwashing of any form is harmful to psychological health and can easily derail you. Some objectivity is necessary. This is a question where lines between reality and spirituality are blurred and so being objective helps you to stay grounded. A few days back Leo told me to not be a pig about survival but be a butterfly hovering over survival yet not being too attached to it. The problem is such teachings look great in words but hard to test against reality. The lesson to be drawn here is that as much as you realise that all you learn about spirituality is very true, yet in real life you cannot simply apply spiritual aspects because reality of being a human is not compatible with spiritual teachings and so realize that truth is truth yet truth is not applicable in reality which is also another truth. Don't be too carried away by spiritual truths where you begin to blur lines and take everything for granted and lose sight of objectivity in everyday circumstances. Spiritual understanding should come with the awareness that the world and reality aren't operating on these principles and so learning the truth is one thing but be carefull about how you go around applying it, it shouldn't be applied literally. Logic is the key. Use objective sense with everyday situations not spiritual platitudes. It's all cute when you listen to these things but your reality shouldn't be defined around these things. Keep your life separated from teachings and understand it's limitations with respect to the real world. Some teachings are useful and so apply those and those that are not objectively useful should only be used for awareness of truth. Leo is not responsible for this. When you are into the kind of work Leo does, you need to come into it with the personal responsibility that all you do is solely based on how you interpret things. You need a serious commitment and work ethic in this kind of work where you won't do things that are irresponsible in the quest for spirituality. You need to be aware that this work is not tailored for those who are not adequately prepared to take the consequences of the revelations you will have on this path. If you think that this work is distorting your reality,then perhaps it's not meant for you, however don't blame the work or Leo. it's your level of self responsibility and open mindedness that counts on this path. You need some serious skill and intellect and responsibility to survive on this path and the struggle can be very daunting. So before you sign up for something like this,mentally take a not and understand that do's and don'ts and be aware of how not to twist your reality by what you're going to learn,hard to do but it's one of the challenges that is very inherent with such work and if you're a poor judge of reality then you're going to be having a hard time reconciling spiritual truths and objectivity. Understanding the crucial differences between objectivity based simple self help designed to improve survival versus hard spiritual practice that transcends survival is extremely important.

The problem is we don't know what's the person who is killing himself is going through. We can't put ourselves in their shoes. You never know maybe you will reach a point in your life where killing yourself seems like the only option left. I'm not with demonizing suicide as if life is always net positive and death is always net negative. It (death) exists for a reason.

This is really bad news. So sorry to hear about your loss @SoonHei As a tangent...i don't think anyone in this forum including Leo is to be held responsible for his suicide. Obviously no one here supports or encourages suicide. He was an adult and responsible for his behavior.

@Muhammad Jawad My condolences to you and all those who loved and were loved by Sunny. You doing alright mentally and emotionally all things considered Muhammad? See the thing is when our "best and only friend" kills themselves sometimes we are next in line. Are you having any suicidal thoughts? Do you have a support system, family, a therapist, or clergy you can turn to? If not, and even if so, maybe seek out a local suicide prevention phone number wherever in the world you are. If you have even a hint of seriously contemplating suicide after this crisis and tragedy of Sunny's, please get help and talk to someone immediately. It is not weakness to have such thoughts nor to seek help. It is courageous to be self honest and seek assistance in preserving life.

@kinesin Leo did not talk about physical death and did not advocate suicide. To many people misinterpret his words and then blame him for their own misinterpretations.

Jumping off a bridge is not fucking mahasamadhi ?? This is not a “conscious death” where one is entering a very powerful state of samadhi and transcends the traces of karmic bonds (which, even that is debatable). This is just suicide and a very irresponsible one at that as a result of needlessly confusing psychedelic states of mind with actual truth. That’s all that is. A reckless abandonment fueled by utter delusion. Best wishes to his wife and 2 kids.

@Nahm @Dodo @Leo Gura I can tell you no one edited his comments. He was gone. And we were drowning in our own grief and barely got into his email and passwords and eventually this forum. We wish he never stumbled upon spirituality or any of this stuff. What did he gain? He was already an amazing person. I know I sound biased but trust me. He helped others so selflessly - emotionally, financially, in any way he could. Always did the right thing. Since he was a child. I cant explain him in words here. He even guided people on their spiritual journeys and got them out of depression. Never charged a penny for it. He did everything from the pure goodness of his heart. All this spiritual jargon and ideas only hurt him and his family in the end... He was better off without it and already on the path to "heaven." His ideas of "there are no others," and life being a dream that one shouldn't get attached to made sense for the most part. But I must say this whole incident has reiterated to me why one should stick with long-established religions such as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, whatever.... and listen to well-known "Prophets" and their teachings. There is a reason why they have had billions of followers over thousands of years, without needing the internet to spread their message. And their message still gives people the tools they need to lead a good, moral life. I have personally come to the conclusion that this whole new age spirituality especially on forums and youtube is extremely dangerous. And sadly, no one seems to have thought about talking explicitly about why suicide or hurting one's body is wrong. Needs to be the title of a Youtube video on your channels... I have no words left... The pain is too much. None of this can bring him back. Best of luck to all of you in the journey of your lives!

@Strangeloop I understand. But the eternity can shine HERE, in this physical life, when the Light penetrates the darkness. I will ask you directly... Are you planing to complete suicide? PLEASE?? DON'T do it! There is the way to be happy in this life.

@SoonHei Again, I am very sorry for your loss. What you are sharing is not the direct communication, it is an edited after the fact, more than once, communication. When I received your message, I messaged Leo asking if it is possible to see the editing history, to try to make some sense of this. Like you, I could only speculate as to his ‘why’, because whatever that why might have been, it was of his private thoughts. I do not agree that he trusted in my guidance. If suicide was the ‘lessor of two evils’, I have always suggested expression, talking with someone, taking advantage of all resources available, letting go vs carrying the weight. If his actions were of the thinking of ‘conscious death’, I have commented multiple times offering clarity on this misunderstanding. Making a dreamboard is indicative of what I suggest, and is about living and creating consciously. I am not per se an advocate of even the “ego death” lingo. Also, in terms of trusting my guidance, he never reached out to talk as in have a session. I wish he would have, perhaps he would have opened up if he was carrying a weight, or perhaps found clarity on the “conscious death” philosophy. Again I am speculating here. This medium of communication is very limiting. I am on the road in the country presently and reception is hit or miss. If however you are interested in chatting on Skype in the future I welcome that.

I don't know who you're talking about, but Scholar go a point. Even though, ultimately the decision is not in our hands, and Soonhei may have done it even if Leo and the forum were more careful and upfront about this (physically harming yourself is not necessary at all), We have all our own share of responsibility to influence a bit more people to do that. It's not all an individual choice or a collective one, it's both. So I have to admit, I kinda feel bad right now, because I'm probably the one who used this analogy the most, on top of not directly experiencing it myself. I'm not guilting myself, but I still kind of feel bad, cause in retrospect, how many people I have influenced to do just what Soonhei did ? Probably a lot. To the point of actually committing suicide ? Most likely not. But still, there is an effect that I can't deny, I can't just tell myself that whatever I write has no influence, it does, way more than I can think of. And we all do.

I believe there is actually a link. I had attempted a suicide long time ago, because I was actually fine with the idea of moving on. I was not afraid of death, took the rat poison and laid there, only for my mother to come in and find out what happened, then took me to the hospital... Leos stuff are very radical and can be misunderstood and misused. I wouldn't blame him, because he can't control how others would perceive an insight that he's had, which might very well be true.

I do think that your criticism of Leo would help him deconstruct the mind of anyone more effectively, but I disagree that his current technique leads to any amount of increased rate of suicide. It clearly reaches more people all at once, but I don't see the link between that and suicide.

@Scholar If a person is whole, and coming from a place of wholeness - Suicide will not be the answer nor will rape nor will replacing hair without anesthesia. With all due respect, I do believe SoonHei was dealing with mental illness in some form. One of the most valuable supports I have is a therapist and I highly recommend everyone connect in person to someone who can display wholeness.

So you think whether or not people choose suicide is a matter of how the information is presented instead of it being presented? In your previous message you said "Don't tell this anyone".

@Leo Gura In your video ('Dangers of Spiritual Work') you have talked about that if someone will go All the way with spirituality then at the end he will have to surrender his entire life. This sounds like suicide. Also i don't think someone who commits suicide , regrets it.

This won't work. You can't just tell someone "Suicide and self harm is wrong! But also, morality is illusiory, everything including rape and torture is Love and Perfection. And by the way you can't die because you are God!". You give this knowledge to a child, he will cut himself with it. This is inevitable. This is serious stuff here, you can't just market it to the masses and expect everything to go well. The disclaimers are nothing but PR games. There is a reason why spiritual traditions that were successful did not spout "radical truth" to everyone on the street, telling them "You are God, I am God, it's all a dream!". If Buddhism did this it wouldn't exist today. Secondly, these traditions all firmly establish and importance in morality. There is a reason for this, it's not just "stage blue absolutism". None of the stuff Leo is teaching has been tested for more than a decade, nor do we even truly know the results. We have a confirmation bias of people just praising him. You have no idea how many people already killed themselves because of this. But better pretend like it's not your responsibility. I'm sure with an attitude like that, these teachings will stand the test of time.

Or he just got tired of material reality ? Don't understand why people are so dogmatic with suicide. He maybe was happy and have achieved enough emotional freedom and non-attachment. We will never know . Pd: of course I'm not doing apology of suicide. I'm just we don't was happening through his mind

If someone had no mental illness and was happy the obvious question arises if it was suicide. Even if the case was closed you can not know it 100%. However, the case of someone falling down a bridge is hard to close even with witnesses. Because, if they would be too close they would help and would not go to police if it wasn't successful or if they didn't tried it because of fear being arrested. If they would be more far away they probably haven't seen important details like what he said e.g.. I ever saw cameras installed on bridges. He could also be forced to do this etc.

@Leo Gura just a heads up. you need to issue stricter disclaimers on both forum and videos that this work needs serious commitment and should never involve any form of self harm or overdose or suicide ideation. Especially given the Connor incident and now this, such incidents can be on the rise.

It should not be surprising, the philosophy Leo is using to describe spirituality is even more radical than this. Connor is a good example of this too. If you say everything is Good and Love, it is simply illogical to claim that it is better to do X. This philosophy claims to recognize that torture and rape is Perfection. Not just suicide. This is another reason why you ought to be careful about how you construct this philosophy. See, if people truly believe what you say, the might blow themselves up together with others for Jihad. And then what do you do as a teacher? You say "No no, this is bad PR, this is wrong! When I said everything is Good and Perfect, I actually meant you should behave morally because it's stupid to behave immorally!". Are you sure? See, because you are contradicting yourself, if someone truly believes what you say with actual conviction, he will laugh at you, as Connor does at Leo when he tries to tell him what he is doing is "bad". Clearly in one moment you say it's bad and in the other you say it's Perfection. You tell him whatever fits your agenda. And he will clearly see this if he truly and fully is convinced that reality is perfection, or that it is a dream, or anything else. See, if reality is a dream, every excuse for why you should not torture someone goes out the window. You can pretend like this is not the case, but it is.

@Shin don't guilt yourself. @Sleyker @Michael569 you both need to chill with the detective attitude. The guy committed suicide because he wanted to find his way that way. It's over. It's that simple. I wish he had found the right kind of help.

In general there is too less information. You probably don't even know if it was suicide at all. And if a person has really jumped from a bridge, there is currently probably no evidence that it was a forum member. At least I don't see one.

@Leo Gura Hi Leo! This is SoonHei's sister using his account trying to find out why he took the step that he did. I can confirm that he did in fact die on May 3rd by jumping off of a bridge. His message to his wife was: "Oh I was never ending it. I was just continuing it. I just wanted to jump. Love you all. See you soon." Similar message to what he sent to the person who started this thread (first post). Now most important, SoonHei asked NAHM very directly before committing this act. I really wish NAHM had guided him better. SoonHei could not have been clearer. I will attach screenshots of their conversation in my next post. If someone can tell us what he was trying to do, please do. We cannot explain to you the shock of his death. We cannot wrap our heads around why he would do this. SoonHei was someone who has literally saved others from depression and suicide. We keep hearing stories from people that he helped in their darkest hour. I can tell you for a fact that he did not suffer from any mental illness or depression. Sunny was SO SO full of life. He has left behind a 3 month old and a 20 month old. It is hard to even look at his 27-yr-old wife who was barely out of the post-partum phase with her baby. SoonHei was a very central part of our family. The most kind-hearted soul. An amazing son, a wonderful husband, the most supportive brother, and above all, a one-in-a-million father. I feel like our whole family will go into depression...

Guys, before you get too carried away with this, we need some evidence or confirmation that this suicide actually happened. It is not a given that it did. Suicidal and mentally ill people can often threaten suicide for attention and other reasons. OP, please provide further evidence or explanation of how you know this suicide actually happened. I take this issue seriously and we need to be clear about facts vs assumptions and speculation. Keep in mind that people on this forum do lie and manipulate sometimes. Sometimes we get people with serious mental illnesses here who behave in erratic and irrational ways, or play games.

Your channel is growing and your videos are literally hours long each, so any point you stress can very easily be lost within your other hundreds of daily posts and hours of video. I remember when I was introduced to your work, I was curious on your views of suicide, and it took me some "digging" to find it.