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@Preety_India I'm sorry Preety. I mean no disrespect to him, his family and friends, you, or anyone. All I'm saying is that for the sake of preserving human life and this community we must condemn and not glorify suicide.

@Leo Gura it is not natural to kill one's body nor is it natural to die prematurely. I do not approve of it whether you like it or not. Remember, existence is a natural phenomenon. And nature is not masochistic. Nature does not condone suicide that easily. There is a natural way and there is an unnatural way. And I swear these people in spirituality who are being masochistic to awaken are the most dangerous people. Speaking of the mahatmas, christian monks, and buddhist saints... etc. And especially what has plagued the world are those people who infect others with such presuppositions about Nature. And people cheer on them, unfortunately, so they are easy to propagate. People love masochistic people, because if they see anyone taking care of themselves in a loving way, they feel jealous. I am sure Nature despises such things, to say the least.

This is very sad news indeed. Thoughts with the family But the unfortunate truth is that after actualized has millions upon millions of views, it was inevitable that someone who committed suicide was somehow linked to actualized. but of course someone who commited suicide could be identified as a ‘forum member’ but could have also been anything else going on in his life. someone mentioned that Leo should put out a video mentioning SoonHei’s name. I don’t think there’s need for this. I remember once someone read an e book I wrote and then blamed me for their depression. It was a long mess of small court, lawyers etc For some reason, people are waiting in the wings for Leo and something like this will be exactly what some people have waited for to tear him down. It could be blown out of proportion and risk everything.

The fact of the matter is that the contemplation of suicide simply goes with the territory of spiritual development. It is a challenge that most every serious seeker must wrestle with and transcend, and some will face it long-term and/or repeatedly; and some will fail to win Freedom without falling bodily by their own hand. This is the case in all awakening work in every tradition and type of teaching. Absolute Life is what we aspire to and to become One with it we must face relative death. To well understand that this is Not a Call or a Cause to Commit Suicide even in the darkest night of the soul when it is very tempting is why a strong disciplined mind must be developed before undertaking hard-core spiritual practices of any sort, including with psychedelics. It is important that everyone here recognize that the path to enlightenment is both beautifully light and dark. It is strewn with the dead in traps that can bind and snare and kill you too both metaphorically and literally. Learn well the lesson SoonHei died to teach us. His death must be firmly condemned least we risk it being glorified and worse case scenario such death becomes a theme here. It gives me no pleasure to say he was a deluded fool, a victim of his own spiritualized ego, and it ended his life out of pure fear disguised as lofty spirituality. Know that for a minor turn of fate it could have happened to any of us. Those who Know know it did happen to us. It is loss. It is pain. It is grief and hardship and remorse. Be wise. Learn from this mistake and don't repeat it.

@Bojan V No I don't plan to suicide, I just sometimes have suicidal thoughts when my life goes unexpected ways. @Roy The negative thoughts seem very persuasive even if it's the partial truth, a perspective/worldview. I realised that the thoughts can be the source of my suffering, but on the other hand living without thoughts can cause suffering too. To indulge the feeling of leaving this earth is probably the most horrifying thing there is. And I've seen an attempt of suicide, it was devastating to watch and don't wish anyone to experience that.

Anyways, anyone blaming Actualized.org for his death must be absurd. I already can feel the energy of this forum people trying to pull that shit off saying it is somewhat Leo's responsibility. Compassion to the man who is deceased but I don't condone any of his actions and it is an undeniable fact that suicide is not necessarily the wisest choice, and that is a fact! But at the same time, out of anyone here, I am of the opinion, it is completely one's choice to commit such acts and no one should or should not tell him what to do and control him, indefinitely! I still, will tell him and others, do not feel bad or be angry just because someone has trodden the road of his own, in which in this case, suicide. I don't blame him for committing suicide. I will help him get there and be with him in that lonely road. Any of you blaming others for his suicide and encouraging him and saying his choice is something to be completely accepted and never to be challenged upon is tredding on a path of nihilism: I can be sure. To tell another person one should be indefinitely be in agreement to one's path is the most arrogant thing and this sort of force over power only breeds more nihilism and hatred. This sort of attitude only demonstrates how much you don't accept other's going on their own path, and you just want everyone to agree with your own. This includes our friend who has just died! I can already feel the energy gliding towards this path, and it is dangerous. A real person who supports our friend's path will right away be honest and truthful to him in the most friendly way. Only a person who does not support the deceased person's path will lie and pretend like what he has done was a very wise choice both for himself and others! I'll give you this simple rule for those who think I'm an asshole, don't lie or pretend to the person you love dearly! And do not force others to lie or pretend just to show an appearance of support! That is not truly supporting the journey the other is going through! If you truly want to support wherever the other person is trying to go to, never pretend or lie to them. Do not force the other person to agree with you. That is nihilism and bondage. Do not force people to think like you.

Neither is suicide a cowardly act nor a selfish one. And it is not some romantic fantasy either It's just hard and cold.

"I think to call suicide a cowardly act is to severely downplay the illness of the one who left this world. Their pain must have been so great, their despair so colossal, their path so dark that the only way out they saw was to end their own life." Hope his family and friends find strength in these dark times.

@Preety_India I'm saying this is not Leo's fault. I never said don't kill yourself. Suicide is your choice. I'm saying we have no responsibility over it, including Leo. People blaming Leo for this is utter fucking nonsense. It's so fucking stupid. I feel this energy in this forum where people are blaming Leo. Fuck you. And saying fuck you to these people, people then associate people like me who say, "fuck you" as saying "fuck you" to the deceased guy. We weren't saying "fuck you" to the deceased soul, we were saying "fuck you" to you specifically who blame people who had no responsibility over it.

@sda look suicide is not a matter of judgement. If I died the last thing I would want is people discussing whether it was right or wrong I would simply want people to empathize with my situation and offer compassion for my soul. That's all. Is this hard ? Who are we to decide if what the person did is right or wrong ? Most likely it's wrong because it's hurtful But the point is not about deciding whether it's right or wrong but understanding why and how it happened and how it could have been prevented and offering understanding, love and compassion and respect to the deceased for their action. Nobody likes to die. Suicide is just another cry for help, the ultimate cry for help when it's too late. Can we judge someone for crying ?

Do self empowerment exercises. This forum will completely forget the Suicide. Don't I know this ?

I really don't think Leo should take this guy seriously. This guy was on the verge of suicide anyways. It happened to be that he was associated with actualized.org in this specific point of time. To be honest with you, @Leo Gura , I don't think this guy was intelligent in the first place if he actually killed himself thinking it will help him spiritually. That's about the most dumbest shit I've ever heard of. He is in fact irresponsible to leave his children and wife like that. Very nonspiritual, in my opinion. A real man of spiritual essence would dedicate his life to dying before dying. In what world do you think your ego will die if you kill yourself? Your body will die, but your ego will be left! Your dreams, your past experiences will not die, just because your body has died! You will be the same suffering idiot that you were before. Huh.... I know I should be compassionate to him. I don't know if he did this out of spiritual pursuit or out of deep suffering. If it is from suffering, he should be clear that this was not because of actualized.org. If it was for spiritual pursuit, I cannot take him seriously. I know what it is like to want to kill yourself because of deep suffering! I know it! huh.... I may not criticize him so harshly if this was the case, but still, I will never try and encourage such behavior............. One must look at the muse, his dreams, his love of life, and pursue that muse to the end of the universe, however so painful and full of suffering it might be. That's what makes life so beautiful.... I really say this out of compassion and sadness to the man who had killed himself People like Leo who proposes advanced spiritual concepts are met with two kinds of people usually. One are really fucked up psychologically ill people and the other are people who have relatively healthy minds craving for something more essential than their superficial lives. People in between do not come to Leo because they are usually occupied with their jobs, family, and relationships. They don't have time to think about love, happiness, or philosophy. Psychologically ill people need love, happiness, and support, so they leech onto people like Leo. This guy who died is obviously the latter. I know what it feels like to suffer and really consider killing yourself. I've been there. I was fucking close, yet I solved it because of one attitude. It was mental. All mental. I had a health problem called Chronic pelvic pain syndrome. Search it up, and you'll know how painful it is. I solved it by doing what Eckhart Tolle, OSHO had said. Be loving towards the world, only then can happiness come. How can there be happiness if you hate yourself and the world you live in? The compassionate thing to do is not encourage this man's suicidal behavior. Yes, one is sad about it. One wishes it would have been different. Yes, one can feel the suffering of the deceased one. However, do not encourage the behavior of being unloving towards himself and others. In my assessment of the man, he hasn't been so compassionate to himself or the world. Whether the reason was to kill himself for his spiritual quest or to just end his suffering I don't know. If it was the former, I have no words but "tough luck", but if it was the latter, I will have to say, "I wish I could have done better for you even if I never knew you." Whatever reason, I feel he should've been more aware of his surroundings and most importantly himself. Consequences follow when one is unaware of the world and himself and is unloving of the world and himself. Let us learn from this man... but not take him too seriously like we are now!

With all due respect to his family, friends and this community. It's nobody's fault... nobody's. Like Leo said, nobody really knows what was going on there. Often times this sort of thing is long planned and hidden very well so it won't be interrupted unfortunately. In 2013 we lost a friend that was playing poker with us the very night before he shot himself in the armory the next morning... literally no one saw it coming, it was absolutely mind-boggling and tragic at the time. There are lots of Suicide Prevention programs available nowadays.... the one they taught us was called ACT. A-ask C-care T-treat ❤

I always think of Kurt Cobain whenever I think of suicide. He was born on February 20 and I was born on February 21. We are both Pisces. We can go into deep dark moods when things are going wrong

(Trigger warning) I had also told myself that If I had to die I would have died Kurt Cobain style. I would have blown off my head with a gun. Because that's instant and quick. But guns aren't available in my country. They are only available in the US Often times I thought I would travel to US to commit suicide. That would be so easy Here I can't get guns and there is no bridge. I remember in 2017, when I was suicidal, I begged my Ex Indian boyfriend to please find me a bridge. A bridge suitable for jumping off I didn't find any nearby. He told me that I'll need to travel through some cities to find an ideal bridge I had made multiple Google searches on trying to locate a suitable place to commit suicide that year. And I remember doing these searches once again in 2019 because my mom was ready to throw me out. I remember in the month of March this year, my sibling calling me and asking me why I didn't die sooner..that was a very sad time . My mom especially encouraging me to commit suicide.

Suicide is actually hard topic for me. Many reasons why. One thing my cat was murdered when I was 14/15. My dad died many years ago. My aunt committed suicide because she genetically suffered the same problem that my dad did and she didn't have the money to deal with it I was suicidal at 18. That was my first experience. My first attempt at suicide was slashing myself 2 months after my father's death. After that the depression caused by my father's death (combined with the cat and childhood abuse from mother) threw me into a downspiral of depression, PTSD and self harm that lasted a decade until now after my father's death. Coping is very difficult and lonely. So I cope with imaginary characters, friends and imaginary lovers. My exes only made my suicidal condition worse, not better

On Recent Events on the Forum (Trigger Warning: Suicide) So apparently someone on this forum committed suicide for spiritual reasons so they can experience a conscious death. This was really heartbreaking to read and part of me had no idea what to say because I'm not good at handling things regarding death. My heart does go out to the person's friends and family. But I did have somethings to say particularly on the dangers of spiritual work and how spiritual teachings can me misinterpreted in dangerous ways to harm oneself and others. I have encountered something similar in my journey when I tried to jump into transcendence prematurely. I felt the need to explain my critiques in the thread where people were talking about this because the dangers of spiritual work and how people talk about it I feel aren't addressed enough. There are a lot of potentially dangerous things on here from what I've observed tbh. I wasn't trying to blame or shame anyone. It's easy to just say that the person who committed suicide that it was their responsibility to interpret things in a constructive way. While that is true, I think as the community and as actualized.org is trying to go mainstream (based on the clips channel as well as making podcast rounds), it's important to look at what we can do in our end and have these difficult conversations on how far to take spirituality and where are the lines we need to draw when talking to other people about it, not out of shame or wanting to water down teachings but for the safety, wellbeing, and growth of the people and society around us. There is a reason why some teachers hold back advanced teachings. I know that all teachings can't be idiot proof but I think there are somethings we can still do to reduce situations like these. I can't say I know what those things are but having that conversation discussing these things is important. The thought of leaving people behind, especially little kids just hits really hard for me. I'm tearing up while writing this tbh. I've had issues with suicidal thoughts over the years so I understand to a certain extent. I've also a lot of people who were close to me and while I didn't lose anyone personally to suicide, a lot of those deaths were sudden, a couple of them were violent. Again, my heart goes out to the person's friends and family. I'm probably going to write about the issues I see on this forum. I was originally thinking about getting that out of my system in this journal for the last couple weeks but now I'm also thinking about posting that as a thread. I don't even know tbh.

I'm actually high on the Suicide list. Because I have battled it all my life. I have been suicidal for half of my existence. Yet I have survived some how . Suicide is not easy, let me tell you . It's a very strong urge that people don't understand. I have written multiple times in my various journals how I have been suicidal. Being suicidal is not a one time thing It stays with you for a really long time. It's like a disease, an affliction. However I can say that I won't commit suicide so easily. Having battled with it for so long, I have gained a tiny bit of immunity against it. I had been kept on suicide watch at some points during teenage days in school. If I ever feel suicidal again, which I often do, it's usually over something that is life threatening like money issues etc. Like a few months ago I was suicidal because my mom was in the hospital and I couldn't pay the bills. Yea that kinda stuff. Hard to deal with

@Leo Gura I would agree, but as you have expressed in the past...in the relative domain, everything matters. Viewers mis-interpret this, and turns it into Zen devilry and a lack of consideration for others. There's a bit of a theme going that survival and feelings are bad things that are simply not accepted as part of Truth, when in reality it is as just as anything else...from an absolute perspective. We must honor our survival mechanisms and feelings...then integrate them in the highest way possible. I will refer to your 'Ego Collapse Awakening' blog post...the question posed at the end: "how do we square awakening with survival?". Awakening can turn into nihilism and suicide when we don't practically deal with survival, feelings and other human shit.

The whole suicide stuff in the meditation forum is bothering me I made this thread exactly 1 hour before that thread was made I couldn't have known that someone was going to post something like that So I felt a bit nervous when I read that thread because I was precisely going to write about death today and the topic was looming over my head since past 14 hours. What a weird coincidence? Unbelievable.

I would actually expect Leo to appear a little more often in the emotional section of the forum It gives a bad feeling when he is rarely there as though he is looking down on people with emotional issues. I understand that he is not a professional expert in such matters but even saying to someone that they should not commit suicide or self harm. If it helps it helps. I wish he did that. Im not saying regularly. But at least once a week in that section would look like he cares and doesn't look away from people who got emotional issues I mean this is a self development forum. It can look pretty demonizing to ignore emotional issues. It is a part of self development after all. Once a week appearance is not asking for too much.

I am a suicidal person on this forum. And Leo is very right about whatever he said above I have been battling suicidal thoughts since my teenage. However this forum has helped me stay afloat. Whenever I had those thoughts I wrote them in my journal or tried seeking help in the emotional support section. Yea 3 years being on this forum I reduced my suicidal tendency down by 60%. Not enough but significant progress. I cannot vouch that I won't commit suicide in the future as that is not a guarantee. Being suicidal is like living with diabetes. There are highs and lows. Some periods are suicide-thought free and some are very intense. It's an episodic problem but with constant care it can be managed. Without this forum, it would have been much harder for me to control my suicidal ideation, I could have resorted to self harm. In past 3 years my self harm incidents have been limited to 2. Which is great,given I have a long history of self harm. Just being on the forum has helped to keep suicide thoughts away a great deal even without asking members. Even if I did bad things, I will never blame the forum for it, because the forum actually helped me stay away from bad things.

That post only looks like a suicide post in retrospect. If he hadn't jumped you would never know he was seriously considering it. I will definitely make a video. I actually already recorded a video last week about nihilism which will be released some time in the next few weeks. That video clears up common misconceptions and mistakes of nihilism. But I will make a video specifically about misinterpretation of the teachings and the dangers of deconstructing one's mind. I am happy to make such a video because it is core to what I teach. Actually it doesn't matter. But that is not a truth most people are willing to understand or accept. The thing is, Truth is a very radical and dangerous thing. Which is why Truth has been suppressed from mankind for thousands of years. The thing is, when the rubber meets the road, you will not care about Truth, you will care about survival and your feelings. This is how life works. It is a game, but its a very brutal game, and when you get brutalized you will not care that it is a game because you are too hurt to care.

Wow this is kind of dark in hindsight. I would not have read that thinking this guy wanted to commit suicide but I guess you can't really tell. Well at least moving forward we can be more aware of this kind of stuff

If it had you would have heard about it. We do have suicidal people on these forums pretty regularly though. Which is why I added the following warning to the Forum Guidelines some time ago: I added this warning precisely because I expected someone at some point to do something suicidal and then blame this community for it. This was not unexpected given the thousands of weird people we get coming through here. It is important for people here to understand that dealing with suicide prevention requires a certain trained skill set and that neither I nor our Mods are trained to talk people down from suicide. That is beyond the scope of our jobs here. If we see someone who is suicidal, we generally try to talk them down from it, but we may not be skillful at it nor do we have the time and energy to catch every case of it. This forum is not a professional clinic or the like. This is a community of people casually discussing spiritual stuff. So it's important to set the right expectations. The Mods are not here to save every lost soul. They are mostly here to police against spammers and trolls. Generally we are too busy here combating trolls and spammers to offer serious one-on-one counseling or therapeutic help. Any such help is given pro-bono, without warranty, as our time and energy allows. But even so, from what I have seen, any time our Mods or even regular members hear of someone considering suicide, they do not hesitate to talk them down with compassion. Our members are actually great at that. Had Soonhei made a public post where he said he was considering jumping off a cliff, I have no doubt whatsoever that our members would have stepped in and talked him down -- assuming he was willing to listen. And I would certainly have reprimanded him for even considering such a thing seriously if my eyes caught glance of such a thread. But you also have to understand, I cannot personally see or supervise every thread on this forum. There's just too much volume of stuff here. And if you say, "Well, then shut the forum down!" Oh yeah? But then how many people will lose their lives by not having any spiritual community to talk to at all? So you see, it's not so simple. There are inherent pros and cons to running an online spiritual community. There will be good times and bad. There will be wonderful people and crazy people. There will many lives saved and a few lives lost. The nature of spiritual and personal development work is that is tends to attract some people who are struggling to get their minds straight. And sometimes you get people with really crooked minds -- where you don't even know how to begin straightening them out. It is also important to keep in mind how many lonely and lost people there on in the world who find this community and use it to improve themselves and actually save themselves from suicide. I have had plenty of people message me and tell me that if not for this community or finding my videos, they would have committed suicide or been stuck in some horrible depression or psychosis or some cult. But of course, not everyone's story will end so positively. Some people may find this forum and use it to spiral completely out of control. And you also don't know what other forums and videos and sources they are consuming besides Actualized.org. Spiritual knowledge is a very powerful tool. It can be used for the highest good, the greatest of evils, and everything in between.