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I don't believe that there is something left that can distinguish heaven and hell "after" death. However, during death you can experience "eternity", the "eternal now". I also have experienced this with suffering. Eternal now + suffering shot me into the nothingness. Strangely "after eternity" ,eternity ironically stops and time just happens again. So probably during your dying process you can be in the eternal now + suffering, which I believe is technically Hell, until you give up and the ego dies before your Body. In the nothingness I don't remember being bothered by the "eternal suffering" that preceded. It's just a belief, but I think nothingness transcends heaven and hell. at least the nothingness transcended heaven- and hell-awakenings I had. Test it out in life, you might not have to literally die for that, let yourself be absorbed into heaven until there is no heaven, an let yourself be absorbed in hell until there is no hell. If that's also the case after death, nobody really knows, however it seems strange to me that you can transcend heaven and hell during life, why would we be stuck in those mildly-awakened states after death?

What is death to an awakened one?

Does an awakened person feel pain if you cut their finger off? Does an awakened person feel hungry? What changes is the perspective not the sensations. And according to some there are infinite "levels" of awakening. Maybe there are perspectives which are totally disconnected from sensation, but that's just my speculation.

this is true , and this seems consistent so you think your real and can function and Play out the story you need to without being a crazy person. This is the greatest gift you have given yourself is this illusion of consistency. However when you start to become fully awakened . Consistency isn’t the same anymore. It’s always rn , times constantly jumping. You start to realize your own memories from the day aren’t even real and some things that happen throughout the day that seem crazy you just forget about. You can bring up these repression’s in hypnogonic dream state. You actually see some fucking crazy dream like shit everyday you just forget . Like entities and shit . Crazy shit I promise u.

@Sam Johnson There is a bell curve of spiritual capacity that humans have. From spiritual retards to gods. For example, I've met people who were born awakened and live multiple live simutaneously in parallel from birth. Stop assuming that other humans are like you. Their consciousness can be totally different than yours. An advanced yogi is gonna be in the top 1% of the spiritual bell curve with zero practice. And then he will add 1000s of hours of practice on top of that. So you, an average guy, have no hope of attaining his level naturally. It's like you think you can play basketball against Shaquiel O'Neil.

This is a great tread to people who have different paths towards awakening. shows how people can truly take random ass paths and end up at the same place. All was meant to be. Btw, I wouldn’t really agree with that. I’ve seen people who suffered nothing and got awakened. They took the Hindu path sure, however I saw them not suffering(doesn’t mean they all won’t suffer). I suffered a shit ton to awaken. Not a big deal, but I would like to point out this bs. it’s just one path(edit: It is just one path that thinks about suffering is the best way to devolve the ego. Don’t get lost in stupid and toxic beliefs) . To newbies this stupid belief can be taken on dogmatically really quickly so don’t get lost in it. YOU DONT NEED TO SUFFER. And even if you do no worries. Suffering can be fun. Once it is done you can look back and laugh. lol, I would like to say that many people in spirituality have a lot of mixed Buddha beliefs which I see hold them back. Such as not killing, love, and other stuff. These aren’t bad they are just one pointer to purity. Question your own beliefs. Budddha path is not meant for a lot of people. It’s kinda girly too.(I reread this and I saw how this can be taken wrongly to the girly folks. This isn’t shitting on Buddha’s. I love em. They take a path in which I cannot.) Have you ever seen a truly masculine path? (Lol I wouldn’t consider this a super masculine path, however you know people kill impure people and get awoken? It’s a legit path.)

If The Buddha, Eckhart, St. John of the Cross, and others awakened ass-backwards count me in

@Breakingthewall You do you and I do me. Here is my story: When I had worked upon my fears etc and when I kept some attention to my body to keep it at ease. Then the way I awakened was pretty funny. I lied down as I always do when meditating. And focused all my attention on all the desires I had and to experience them, so mind created a little fantasy I laughed and continued to focus on laughter/ecstasy... Getting deeper and deeper into being. Deep enough that there wasn't enough awareness to remember the experience at the deeper levels. The only thing I was creating was this ecstasy, normally mind and body would create lots of unsatisfactory things such as thought. Now weeks later being sick there was not the energy for me to create ecstasy or attention on the body. Following the same procedure as before to reach highest ecstasy instead I reached only being. No thoughts, no emotion, no body just being, it was nothingness. What James wrote that nothingness is lonely now comes into play. Because if u start from nothingness you choose what you will create. This can be called unconditional love, because you in being is nothing so you don't gain anything, it's just a love to explore and create life. This at this point will be your choice, the desire of your being should tell you what u want. Did this help in any way?

I just repeated in slightly different words what every non-dual teacher tells us, not sure why you laughed at this. There is the awakened state and the dream state, unless you are new to these concepts this shouldn't surprise you.

That's exactly what I meant? Yes, it's from this I assume myself to have awakened. I don't know anything other than the now but still I talk. What you want to call all other than what we know I do not know. Ego and truth perhaps.

the spiritually developed have another take on conspiracies, they allow themselves to go beyond the ideologies, and the beliefs because they don't have this need to trust something outside of themselves. Personally It has been my inner journey that has opened me up to new information that gets labeled as conspiracy, or knowledge based in that territory. Now i could come here and share all sorts of fascinating interviews and talks relating to new ways of perceiving the world, but for a mind that still fears it's own shadows, cognitive dissonance will kick in, tactics like skepticism, blame, and write offs will take place. This is a survival mechanism for the divided mind/paradigm/ideology. I will not go anywhere new from a place of constricted skepticsm, but rather i choose to only travel through new systems with curiosity, as truth be told, really there’s nothing to gain or to lose, as the mind is a tool, not the master of this life experience. Not everyone has this relationship with the external, without being in an “awakened” state, but it’s practice of raising frequency and vibration, to Know the energies. It may not make much sense to you, but i am fully aware and know most people here are still facing certain shadows in the form of conspiracies, so all i can say is i get frustrated, sometimes too frustrated to even be here

Haha u all talking about "enlightenment" or awakening. Yet none of us are in that state right now, you all should know that. Also when I first realised it was so easy to get into these states of being. I willingly took a great journey into ego after awakening and then apperantly it's for some reason now difficult to do the thing that was the easiest before. This clearly showed me how enlightenment is only difficult when you are not ready for it. Because when you are ready you will figure it out easily so we don't need to talk about it and how to do it so much. Instead we could talk about how work upon yourself. Also before one is ready to do these life altering things if you are mentally ready to experience awakened states of being continously then your external situations must be prepared before hand, isn't it so? So to preparing your external situations before awakening could be very beneficiary. This is why I am in states of much ego right now, otherwise I wouldn't be using my mind in this manner that I am. To begin with I don't now how one would manage work if they were to follow their highest self. In many jobs you need to be detached from life to do it well. So you should have saved some money to take a journey, where after awakening you could work towards life purpose and then finance yourself through that. This post I made is 100% from my own experience, I don't copy something I've learnt from gurus or actualized because I only remember that which I have life experience of and there is no guarantee I speak the truth. Because I am not living in such states like buddha did, I've only just recently awakened and as said am using ego right now to secure some of my external situations.

I think that very often there is no one right answer for everyone because truth is often paradoxical. What is one mans food is another man's poison,,, This leaves it where we can have completely different answers to different life situations and that's just fine. We don't have to agree or disagree or agree to disagree. At times I've found peace in being able to just have no opinion at all and that what created the most misery in my life was reaching conclusions. If I need to make a decision, I'll do so but try not to identify with my decision in which it becomes more like a judgement. Thinking too much as well as making judgements are recipes for being miserable and confused. To practice becoming or being stupid can yield spaciousness and to sit stupidly is a great meditation or a decent doorway into nonconceptual awareness. I Don't believe in the Devil or any evil entity but things which appear evil are only things or situations born out of ignorance which is also the source of fear. I don't believe in beliefs and that any word that comes after I am is a a case of mistaken identity mostly because language is dualistic. Awakened Conscience is the same in everyone and is how God makes choices. To add I believe or I know to the previous statement distorts it. The degree of success that one has in culture is often an accurate measure of how lost they are and how distorted their perception is. A very common psychological blind spot in humans is their tendency to feed on negative emotions and not realize it. Consider the evening news and most sitcoms as well as Christ saying "forgive them, they know not what they do" which also points at herd mentality. One thing that Maurice Nicoll said that kind of disturbs me is that Jesus Christ never laughed because he had no negativity in his emotional center and laughter is created, Nicoll said, when Impressions fall equally on the negative part and the positive part of the emotional center. Maurice Nicoll did emphasize the importance of lightheartedness and this seems skewered when juxtaposed to His statement about Jesus never having laughed. I'm probably missing something. Being lighthearted is a virtue. The capacity for suddenly acting silly is a form of lightheartedness. I'm terrible at math. Saints are eaters of suffering. Communicating in nonsequitor statements erodes self-importance and being too serious and in general, people are much too serious. I hypothesize that being over serious is derived from fear. Therefore, become fearless as often as possible. This being a journal, I can write near anything if it's from authenticity, even if it may embarrass me to read it tomorrow. I'm not intoxicated but I suspect myself of being borderline manic at times. My point being, go wild and express yourselves. Color outside the lines,,, yet, try to be nice,,, This will set the stage for being brutally honest. See if you can catch yourself feeding on negativity of any kind and ponder deeply about that.

@Leo Nordin the awakened have already died. They realize that this is merely an infinite dream by infinite Consciousness. Nothing more. These attachments and finite identity which we have are an illusion. This is realized by the awakened. The ego and its attachments will want to pull the awakened one back into the illusion but he knows better. He knows that any clinging to such attachments is a clinging to an idea within the Mind of God which will dream infinite ideas. He can go on teaching and or doing what he was going before. Nothing would really change. That something would change is yet more imagination.

Maybe the point of life is living? Why did you create life in the first place? Steve Taylor has done research on awakening; you might enjoy some of his books. Not everyone that has a terminal diagnosis becomes awakened. For those that do, it is transformative. Even in a weakened state, every second they have left is vibrant. The news of their imminent mortality shocks them out of the conditioned mind into a different state of consciousness. Everything that seemed mundane before suddenly becomes beautiful. Their realized purpose is not to avoid boredom, but to embrace the stunning beauty in everything and everyone, and go out of the world singing.

Death is that full awakening i suppose right? I mean, you can't get more awakened than total annihilation. I think with the term "guaranteed" here you mean that god creates time and starts all over again. Because with "guaranteed" it supposes that it's not in your control. Again, i know you said that god really isn't free. That you are locked in being nothing and love. So it will create the highest love. But if "create" implies an intention, and intention implies to be free to choose... But i guess the concept of "free" and not "free" will be only understood by awakening, and we are lost in dualities at this point.

Your mind is not to choose. Your being/your consciousness/your highest self or what you want to call "being yourself" is the one choosing. First lets take enlightenment, if you let go too deep into ecstasy and vibrance of life you will leave the body (die), enlightenment will mean death. I quess awakened beings might be a better word if we want to talk about this. This being will to the highest amount appropriate follow their higher or true self. What it chooses to do on this world before it leaves it could be called life purpose. It's the purpose of your entire being before leaving this world and attaining enlightenment. Or rather it's not the purpose of your being but the specific way your consciousness choose to work towards it which is referred to as life purpose. The purpose will be a goal much higher than yourself and will not be achieved in a lifetime. In a way life purpose might be the opposite of enlightenment. I believe it is the only thing that keeps awakened people that follows their souls from attaining enlightenment. The highest goal is being yourself and the end of the journey is enlightenment. Many on here though believes enlightenment to be awakening as in understanding reality. It is a word that is pretty disrupted, there are many many flaws to language. Especially when we talk about life. You wouldn't be able to guess how many times my choice of words on here has created unnecessary discussions. I hope I used my mind well this time to explain something about life.

I don't need ecstasy nor enlightenment. Ecstasy will anyways come from time to time. It was not long ago I awakened so I've now realised some things since then. Though enlightenment will be my death when I choose it. My consciousness will choose what it chooses, I (the mind) am not to interfere if it's not necessary. Because of my early awakening experience I did not eat nor do anything, I just went deeper into life. I thought that was all my consciousness wanted to do and that all other activity was either for my survival or selflessness for the world. Now though, I believe I am experiencing the next phase. My whole being wants not to sit in ecstasy or go for enlightenment but do certain things which I (the mind and body) haven't subcome to so I don't now what it is. I am using my mind to control the highest self if you want to call it that. Before I let go I first need to use my mind independently at least this last time to ensure some kind lf comfort when I let go. By building a van, whether I will give up the van that I am to build I don't know. When the higher self chooses it will do what it wants to do at all times, but some mind is necessary, like clothing yourself or eating. @mmKay I intended vanlife. Whether I will give up my van at one point I don't now. It might be a hazzle to take with me everywhere, I heard of someone sleeping on their motorcycle, that might do what do I know.

My statement is purposefully aggressive and angry sounding in tone because you need fucking wake up call. Your asleep to your own baggage and your taking a tole on yourself and others until you fix it. I know where your at because I've been there and back. I've walked the spiritual path alone with your exact mindset and I know all the ins and outs of it. It's so damn obvious to me it looks like a giant shit stain in the middle of the sidewalk. My comments come from a conscious place of care for you. Not demonization. I only know this too well because I've been through the same shit and held the same trashy narcissistic individualistic perspective that claims you are this 'ultimate awakened person who is soooo developed and conscious' that you don't need anyone and that anyone who seeks relationships is automatically needy. Well thats just a front. You've closed your heart off so much you can't even imagine being intimate with someone yourself anymore. If you were really so conscious and awakened in that area you wouldn't be bashing others on the forum. Your projecting here.

How would I know, I'm not awakened It was horrible yes, the next day I had flashes of it when I was walking in town. I had so much fear to turn streets and to see it again

@Moksha Delightful & I could not agree more. ? I suppose when Siddhartha & Eckart believed they awakened they were also questioning what drives awakened people to do what they do. Maybe they also chose ego. They probably also thought their consciousness, and their awareness was telling them to do things. Maybe they also questioned if this was because of their time, or their advancement. Maybe they also sought to understand how guru’s are motivated, maybe they did make that intellectual choice. Perhaps they were also in the body and knew they would leave it in the future when enlightenment comes. I suppose they also asked other people what is normal for awakened people. I mean, how the heck could I know really.

What drives awakened people to do what they do? The same thing which drives a river to flow.

Yeah of course? I am sharing the experience with you and would like to see if there is some good input. It's just that pior awakening I thought awakened people choose to do good because by having to use willpower. Then now I really think that the truth might be that their and my whole existence seeks doing something more for this world. Early awakening I would gladly just sit blissed out for long times. Now there's the want to do something more during my time on this world. The reason I am skeptical of this new experience is because action takes energy. And earlier I conserved didn't use my energy to reach higher fulfillment. Interesting.. I will share the journey with you all. I just realised, my other thread on how awakened people divide meditation and working for the universe. If doing activity based on your minds choice only then you wouldn't be able to balance it well I dont think. That's why I made that thread. But if your whole consciousness strives to do it then your being creates the balance, now I can meditate again earlier I used ego to stop the will of "the world" which tried to make me do things. It was all about the choice of existence and I'll let existence do it's thing more and more now. What the world will turn around for the people around me. My friends, my family the whole society hasn't gotten any much of clues from me for what change I am about to bring on my lifestyle and what I do. Mohahahahahah lol.

I've started writing some random shit in my spare time relating to awakening & what not, mainly for myself and just a way to journal, but I thought I'd share this as I think it could help some people (hopefully) Self-Help (Self-Actualization) & Awakening ARE Compatible… Wait a minute, isn’t Self-Realization the realization that the separate self / little me / ‘Ego’ you believed yourself to be all these years is a bunch of bollocks, a mere concept & thought that you’ve kept running for X amount of years. It has never existed in it’s own right & never will. Yes. Put simply, it’s not only the realization that Awareness / The Self / The Absolute (I will use these 3 synonyms throughout these writings to refer to the un-nameable truth of your being, the ‘good’ Voldermort if you will) is what YOU are, but it is what literally EVERYTHING is, The Self is quite literally ALL that exists, for nothing but the Self could exist, when you investigate this deeply. BUT, that doesn’t mean you suddenly become beyond human, or float off into space (maybe if you went for Mahasamadhi ?), no if anything it makes you more human, and more able to authentically express your individuality & your personality. Except you no longer identify as them. In fact, the concept / function of an ‘Ego’ is actually very beneficial for the practicality of living. I mean without the ‘Concept’ of Charlie where would employers know where to send your money, who would the delivery driver to deliver your Food to? You get my drift. The problems arise when we then entangle this with who we essentially are, then the I-thought is born, and as they say the rest is history. Only when we investigate this I-thought, it’s source & return it, to its source as we then able to bask in the joy of our true nature, while living as an authentic, unique, human that this understanding, happiness & love expresses itself through. Anyways, returning this to the topic at hand, on why they are compatible. See, ‘Self-Help’ is so broad, I actually recommend this video for realizing the breath and depth of the topic- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJXthKsytpE As you can see, 35+ subfields of Self-Help! Awakening alone isn’t going to make you a master of money, a health expert, an athletic beast, a productivity dynamo, a sex god, a tech wiz, a marketing master and so on and so on. Awakening can certainly help with many topics related to Self-Help, but to think you won’t need further guidance and help on many of these, is simply naïve. What genuine awakening will do, is stabilize you in genuine peace & happiness, absolute fulfilment. Meaning, you will no longer use any external means- money, people, objects, knowledge- to try and fill that existential void we all know so well. For example, when teachers say ‘the end of Desire’ (Buddha, Francis Lucille often says the end of Fear & Desire) they mean the end of seeking fulfilment & happiness as a separate entity which is perpetuated by endless desire. Then, desire simply arises from fullness, from happiness, as a means to express itself and have some fun! Oh, and of course from love, think of how many people (unenlightened as well) eventually turn to a ‘life of service’ which is unique to each body / mind, but comes from Love! Life simply becomes a fun game, and unless you want to go and live your days in some sort of monastic community, or in a cave in the Himalayas, Self-Help will prove to be a great help to you, no matter where you are on the path. It will help you not only integrate your awakenings deeper and deeper through work such as Shadow work, releasing trauma, overcoming addictions etc but used in conjunction with true spirituality can literally create the life of your dreams. BUT, be careful not to use Self-Help for devilry, for example using the Law of Attraction so you can get a Bugatti to show off to your friends & make them jealous. (Nothing wrong with fast cars & nice houses, as long as they aren’t being used to fill a sense of lack!) And, since awakening leads to true happiness & the end of the sense of ‘lack’ and ‘resistance’ that we became so accustom to, it actually makes Self-Help SO much easier. It makes life effortless, because you are doing things simply because you want to, not because you feel you need to, to find happiness or fulfil yourself. In fact, I would also say, realization of the Self makes ‘you’ MUCH more powerful in your abilities to create your dream life, become the best version of yourself & be a force for good in the world, since you are no longer depending on a non-existent personal entity for your motivation & drive, but quite literally have the Universe at your disposal. One catch though, you won’t get away with a lot of the shit ‘normal’ people do, as your actions come from Love, Happiness & Truth, So, don’t think that awakening means an end to the game of life, in fact it is only the beginning. And, it doesn’t mean Self-Help becomes useless, although maybe we could come up with a better term, since ‘Self’ tends to get a bad rap in spirituality, maybe ‘Life-Skills’ as that’s precisely what Self-Help is teaching, the valuable life skills & lessons that will help you live your best life. But, remember to live as & from the Self, not on behalf of a separate entity. Example 1- Earning money selling shitty products, then spending all of this money on prostitutes & shallow pleasures alone. Or, earning money consciously through a business / career that helps people & that you enjoy, making smart investments that creates financial freedom for you & those around you, sharing your wealth & being generous, becoming in touch with the natural law of abundance & desiring for the sake of sharing, not simply for the self alone. Using money not just for yourself, but also for the greater good. Self-Help can help you do both of them scenarios, they are 2 extremes, but it illustrates how different living from The Self is compared to living on behalf of a separate self. How Self-Help Helps Before Awakening While awakening can happen to ‘anyone’ at any time, many beings quite simply are not ready for a true spiritual journey, in fact the majority of people aren’t. Go up to someone on the street and tell them the separate self they believe themselves to be doesn’t exist, and that they literally are Pure Awareness, and that you are them, and no other has ever, or will ever exist and they will call you crazy and carry on about their day. However, go up to someone, tell them they can use the LOA to manifest their dream life, that you can teach them to start a business, quit their job, optimize their health and find their dream partner and they’ll be over you like a rash. We’re all after happiness, and to find the source of true happiness we need to realize where happiness is not found first. But, while getting rich, or getting in shape won’t make us ‘absolutely’ happy, they certainly will make someone feel better, relatively speaking, compared to being obese & broke. Also, many topics of Self-Help are often infused with quote on quote ‘Spiritual Practices’ such as Meditation, Gratitude Journals, Overcoming Addictions (12 steps is VERY spiritual / religion based, just look at Russell Brand), releasing Trauma, dealing with emotions, Mindfulness etc etc. Practicing these will help someone ‘get in touch’ with their True Nature on a regular basis, and will help them progress on the path so to speak. Not only that, there are many foundational habits that I believe really help someone on their own spiritual journey, and just in life in general as I have outlined above. Not only that, having these solid foundations in place, gives someone the inner space & outer freedoms to pursue awakening wholeheartedly without extreme anxiety, worrying about paying their bills, or weight issues troubling them. So, Self-Help can act as a great pre-requisite for awakening. Then, post-awakening, this incredible life that Self-Help has helped one build can then be evolved to become a true expression of The Self, instead of a means to fulfilling a separate self, and can become an expression of love for life. The Business / Career, Relationships, Psychology, Fitness, Health etc can all be used in service of truth, and be used to not only better one’s life, but to help others. For there are MANY ways to express this understanding that goes way beyond the token ‘Spiritual Teacher’ role. In fact, as many more people awaken, we will begin to see awakened Personal Trainers, Therapists. Addiction Specialists, Businessmen, Relationship Therapists, Sexuality Coaches etc etc and having awakened beings at the forefront of these fields will only better them, to say the least. So, when people say it’s either Awakening or (Insert typical thing here) or that awakening means to end to any form of Personal Development, answer them, well you might see it that way, but I’m going to have both! As a quick aside, this doesn’t mean it has to be like that for everyone, each being is unique and has their own path, and many crave the quiet life, or the hermit life, or whatever life it is they want, and may not be interested in Self-Help at all, and that’s fine too. This is simply meant to show you, how you can pursue these if you wish, and how awakening & Self-Actualization are 2 sides of the same coin, and beyond that actually fuse into one epic coin ? Also, here's a link to the GOAT of this topic, Nahm's thread, he's the living legend in this realm-

Are there examples of enlightened people who are at Stage Green? It seems everyone who is a spiritual teacher of any caliber gets placed at Turquoise, but Leo has also said that Enlightenment doesn't automatically mean you're at Turquoise, yet it seems practically every example I've seen on this forum does indeed have Enlightened folks at Turquoise. So, are there examples of Green or Yellow people who are awakened?